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Lamar Jackson

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Going through and doing a review one month later. The offense we ran was a gimmick, and it needed to be with how bad the two interior olinemen were who singlehandedly wrecked our season(fuck you Hurst and Skura. Average starters my ass). Lamar had flashes of absolute brilliance in both facets. I highly disagree with @JoeyFlex5's assessment of him. He's never going to be a 4000 yard guy but I could see him with 3500 passing yards as soon as next year.

Most of my concerns with him right now are fixable. Fumbles. That's fine. The mechanics have already been improving and when he's had time to set his feet he's had several MONEY throws. The pocket awareness is awesome, and the decision making isn't bad. I have the utmost confidence in James Urban and company to continue developing him with mechanics. And if he progresses at the rate he's been going, we could be talking about a franchise QB here.

We could be talking about an elite QB if my biggest concern is something he improves on. If he can learn how to read defenses pre-snap and post-snap adaquately, I think that will make him unstoppable.

Of course. We do have to build the roster around him. What he needs more than anything right now is a real C. Our oline did not beat people off of the ball and Skura was a fucking joke. And yes @RavensMania, I am never going to let you hear the end of that. He was an albatross this season and the tape supports it. But other than that I think the foundation is set. The two TEs are going to do very well for him, and Snead should be a top priority to resign in 2020. Words cannot describe how underrated Snead is. From that point, we are going to need a deep threat too. But right now, in order of importance, we need a C, RB, LG, and then another WR.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Going through and doing a review one month later. The offense we ran was a gimmick, and it needed to be with how bad the two interior olinemen were who singlehandedly wrecked our season(fuck you Hurst and Skura. Average starters my ass). Lamar had flashes of absolute brilliance in both facets. I highly disagree with @JoeyFlex5's assessment of him. He's never going to be a 4000 yard guy but I could see him with 3500 passing yards as soon as next year.

Most of my concerns with him right now are fixable. Fumbles. That's fine. The mechanics have already been improving and when he's had time to set his feet he's had several MONEY throws. The pocket awareness is awesome, and the decision making isn't bad. I have the utmost confidence in James Urban and company to continue developing him with mechanics. And if he progresses at the rate he's been going, we could be talking about a franchise QB here.

We could be talking about an elite QB if my biggest concern is something he improves on. If he can learn how to read defenses pre-snap and post-snap adaquately, I think that will make him unstoppable.

Of course. We do have to build the roster around him. What he needs more than anything right now is a real C. Our oline did not beat people off of the ball and Skura was a fucking joke. And yes @RavensMania, I am never going to let you hear the end of that. He was an albatross this season and the tape supports it. But other than that I think the foundation is set. The two TEs are going to do very well for him, and Snead should be a top priority to resign in 2020. Words cannot describe how underrated Snead is. From that point, we are going to need a deep threat too. But right now, in order of importance, we need a C, RB, LG, and then another WR.
I never had a hard assessment saying I predict this or that for lamar lol, it’s just that so much of our expectations of him are based on a huge progression, that I need to see the progression before I fully believe in it. I absolutely think lamar could hit 3500 as long as he’s got an OL, a WR better than anything he’s got right now, and if he makes the right progress. I love some of what I’ve seen from lamar as a passer, the most refreshing thing after a decade of flacco is seeing lamar shift around the pocket, buying time with subtle steps and resetting, some of the throws where he would split 2 defenders throwing to a spot before the wr even makes his break, he really showed some brilliance, he was better than even I expected and I had huge expectations.

My whole thing is, he’s progressed so much basically every year since his first year in college, at what point does the natural progression stop or slow? Is there ever a point where he plateaus? All players do eventually and lamar has already improved so goddamn much I worry that it has to stop. So when I see a guy I believe is capable of throwing 3500 a year, I’ll say it, as he is CURRENTLY, I think 2000 passing and about 1000 rushing is his ceiling.

All this with the caveat that I’m as big a fan of lamar as anyone.
 

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
I never had a hard assessment saying I predict this or that for lamar lol, it’s just that so much of our expectations of him are based on a huge progression, that I need to see the progression before I fully believe in it. I absolutely think lamar could hit 3500 as long as he’s got an OL, a WR better than anything he’s got right now, and if he makes the right progress. I love some of what I’ve seen from lamar as a passer, the most refreshing thing after a decade of flacco is seeing lamar shift around the pocket, buying time with subtle steps and resetting, some of the throws where he would split 2 defenders throwing to a spot before the wr even makes his break, he really showed some brilliance, he was better than even I expected and I had huge expectations.

My whole thing is, he’s progressed so much basically every year since his first year in college, at what point does the natural progression stop or slow? Is there ever a point where he plateaus? All players do eventually and lamar has already improved so goddamn much I worry that it has to stop. So when I see a guy I believe is capable of throwing 3500 a year, I’ll say it, as he is CURRENTLY, I think 2000 passing and about 1000 rushing is his ceiling.

All this with the caveat that I’m as big a fan of lamar as anyone.
Everything you said before establishing his ceiling of passing and rushing are in direct conflict no? I agree with you that Lamar has shown constant improvement through the last 4 yrs including college, year on year. He has proven that he is coachable. He's a gym rat and very hard working. Everything leads me to believe that his progression will continue and not suddenly plateau as you surmise it might. Two straight years ending his college career he had over 3200 yds in 13 games. This past year he only played 7. I really don't see a reason if he's progressing year upon year, he suddenly stops that progress or plateaus suddenly. I think he'll actually pass for 3500 yds comfortably next year because they'll devise a game plan and add the right weapons for him to be successful passing. I don't think the Ravens win many games if he passes for 2000 and rushes for 1000 do you? I actually think he'll hit 3500 yds passing but may not rush for 1000.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I never had a hard assessment saying I predict this or that for lamar lol, it’s just that so much of our expectations of him are based on a huge progression, that I need to see the progression before I fully believe in it. I absolutely think lamar could hit 3500 as long as he’s got an OL, a WR better than anything he’s got right now, and if he makes the right progress. I love some of what I’ve seen from lamar as a passer, the most refreshing thing after a decade of flacco is seeing lamar shift around the pocket, buying time with subtle steps and resetting, some of the throws where he would split 2 defenders throwing to a spot before the wr even makes his break, he really showed some brilliance, he was better than even I expected and I had huge expectations.

My whole thing is, he’s progressed so much basically every year since his first year in college, at what point does the natural progression stop or slow? Is there ever a point where he plateaus? All players do eventually and lamar has already improved so goddamn much I worry that it has to stop. So when I see a guy I believe is capable of throwing 3500 a year, I’ll say it, as he is CURRENTLY, I think 2000 passing and about 1000 rushing is his ceiling.

All this with the caveat that I’m as big a fan of lamar as anyone.
Some players have less progression to make (Luck) than Lamar. The question you pose is really based on the player and not set in stone for each one.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
I never had a hard assessment saying I predict this or that for lamar lol, it’s just that so much of our expectations of him are based on a huge progression, that I need to see the progression before I fully believe in it. I absolutely think lamar could hit 3500 as long as he’s got an OL, a WR better than anything he’s got right now, and if he makes the right progress. I love some of what I’ve seen from lamar as a passer, the most refreshing thing after a decade of flacco is seeing lamar shift around the pocket, buying time with subtle steps and resetting, some of the throws where he would split 2 defenders throwing to a spot before the wr even makes his break, he really showed some brilliance, he was better than even I expected and I had huge expectations.

My whole thing is, he’s progressed so much basically every year since his first year in college, at what point does the natural progression stop or slow? Is there ever a point where he plateaus? All players do eventually and lamar has already improved so goddamn much I worry that it has to stop. So when I see a guy I believe is capable of throwing 3500 a year, I’ll say it, as he is CURRENTLY, I think 2000 passing and about 1000 rushing is his ceiling.

All this with the caveat that I’m as big a fan of lamar as anyone.
If 2k and 1k is his ceililing, we need a new qb now.. i like lamar but i cant blame you for thinking like that. We really dont know what we are gonna get outta him. Only good thing is that he really wants to be a great qb so far has been putting in the work
 
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RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Going through and doing a review one month later. The offense we ran was a gimmick, and it needed to be with how bad the two interior olinemen were who singlehandedly wrecked our season(fuck you Hurst and Skura. Average starters my ass). Lamar had flashes of absolute brilliance in both facets. I highly disagree with @JoeyFlex5's assessment of him. He's never going to be a 4000 yard guy but I could see him with 3500 passing yards as soon as next year.

Most of my concerns with him right now are fixable. Fumbles. That's fine. The mechanics have already been improving and when he's had time to set his feet he's had several MONEY throws. The pocket awareness is awesome, and the decision making isn't bad. I have the utmost confidence in James Urban and company to continue developing him with mechanics. And if he progresses at the rate he's been going, we could be talking about a franchise QB here.

We could be talking about an elite QB if my biggest concern is something he improves on. If he can learn how to read defenses pre-snap and post-snap adaquately, I think that will make him unstoppable.

Of course. We do have to build the roster around him. What he needs more than anything right now is a real C. Our oline did not beat people off of the ball and Skura was a fucking joke. And yes @RavensMania, I am never going to let you hear the end of that. He was an albatross this season and the tape supports it. But other than that I think the foundation is set. The two TEs are going to do very well for him, and Snead should be a top priority to resign in 2020. Words cannot describe how underrated Snead is. From that point, we are going to need a deep threat too. But right now, in order of importance, we need a C, RB, LG, and then another WR.
I said Skura was average in this system, but also said we should get better at the position, If you’re not playing within this system, he downright sucks. If you go back you will see that I said Lamar aided him.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
Going through and doing a review one month later. The offense we ran was a gimmick, and it needed to be with how bad the two interior olinemen were who singlehandedly wrecked our season(fuck you Hurst and Skura. Average starters my ass). Lamar had flashes of absolute brilliance in both facets. I highly disagree with @JoeyFlex5's assessment of him. He's never going to be a 4000 yard guy but I could see him with 3500 passing yards as soon as next year.

Most of my concerns with him right now are fixable. Fumbles. That's fine. The mechanics have already been improving and when he's had time to set his feet he's had several MONEY throws. The pocket awareness is awesome, and the decision making isn't bad. I have the utmost confidence in James Urban and company to continue developing him with mechanics. And if he progresses at the rate he's been going, we could be talking about a franchise QB here.

We could be talking about an elite QB if my biggest concern is something he improves on. If he can learn how to read defenses pre-snap and post-snap adaquately, I think that will make him unstoppable.

Of course. We do have to build the roster around him. What he needs more than anything right now is a real C. Our oline did not beat people off of the ball and Skura was a fucking joke. And yes @RavensMania, I am never going to let you hear the end of that. He was an albatross this season and the tape supports it. But other than that I think the foundation is set. The two TEs are going to do very well for him, and Snead should be a top priority to resign in 2020. Words cannot describe how underrated Snead is. From that point, we are going to need a deep threat too. But right now, in order of importance, we need a C, RB, LG, and then another WR.

I'm confused by how you say he will never be a 4k guy but could be a 3500 guy next year. Does that mean no improvement after that? If he is 3500 next year I would expect 4k year 3.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
I'm confused by how you say he will never be a 4k guy but could be a 3500 guy next year. Does that mean no improvement after that? If he is 3500 next year I would expect 4k year 3.
To be fair, it happened with joe. I think he threw for 4k once but in a season where it really didnt matter
 
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JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Everything you said before establishing his ceiling of passing and rushing are in direct conflict no? I agree with you that Lamar has shown constant improvement through the last 4 yrs including college, year on year. He has proven that he is coachable. He's a gym rat and very hard working. Everything leads me to believe that his progression will continue and not suddenly plateau as you surmise it might. Two straight years ending his college career he had over 3200 yds in 13 games. This past year he only played 7. I really don't see a reason if he's progressing year upon year, he suddenly stops that progress or plateaus suddenly. I think he'll actually pass for 3500 yds comfortably next year because they'll devise a game plan and add the right weapons for him to be successful passing. I don't think the Ravens win many games if he passes for 2000 and rushes for 1000 do you? I actually think he'll hit 3500 yds passing but may not rush for 1000.
There comes a point where the natural talent has to be there for the work ethic to bring it to the surface, and if lamar doesn’t have the natural arm talent and his arm is just what it is, then I don’t see him passing for 3500. When I wonder if he’ll plateau, it’s because work ethic can only take you so far if the arm talent is just missing.

I’m not saying he’ll plateau, I’m saying I worry that he will, meaning I’m basically gonna be a pussy about lamar and make no definitive statements and only say that I’m a huge fan and I support him lol
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
Everything you said before establishing his ceiling of passing and rushing are in direct conflict no? I agree with you that Lamar has shown constant improvement through the last 4 yrs including college, year on year. He has proven that he is coachable. He's a gym rat and very hard working. Everything leads me to believe that his progression will continue and not suddenly plateau as you surmise it might. Two straight years ending his college career he had over 3200 yds in 13 games. This past year he only played 7. I really don't see a reason if he's progressing year upon year, he suddenly stops that progress or plateaus suddenly. I think he'll actually pass for 3500 yds comfortably next year because they'll devise a game plan and add the right weapons for him to be successful passing. I don't think the Ravens win many games if he passes for 2000 and rushes for 1000 do you? I actually think he'll hit 3500 yds passing but may not rush for 1000.
Like Deebo said we really don't know yet. We're building a new offense and they better not design a 75% rushing offense if we want to play winning football
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
If 2k and 1k is his ceililing, we need a new qb now.. i like lamar but i cant blame you for thinking like that. We really dont know what we are gonna get outta him. Only good thing is that he really wants to be a great qb so far has been putting in the work
I say that’s his ceiling for year 2, sorry that wasn’t clear in the post. I hope and reasonably expect that by year 3-4 he’s right around 3k with really high rushing numbers and a top 3 rush offense every year, but I just can’t say I’m expecting 3500 in year 2, that’s just a gigantic leap for not only him, but also for the coaching staff and supporting cast, when we don’t have a 3500yd type of wr corps nor do we have the OC for it, toss in a head coach who is infamously bad with Xs and Os and adjustments and it looks like a reach to expect that
 
If 2k and 1k is his ceililing, we need a new qb now.. i like lamar but i cant blame you for thinking like that. We really dont know what we are gonna get outta him. Only good thing is that he really wants to be a great qb so far has been putting in the work
No doubt a 2k passing and 1k rushing ceiling for Lamar will be a disaster and we'd need a new QB, but we don't know that now. We should know by the end of next year. Heck - forget that being his ceiling (since we shouldn't expect him to reach his ceiling at the end of his first full season) ... if he puts up that stat line next year, I believe we'll rethink Lamar as our franchise QB. With that line we'll be lucky to be 5-11 next year and we'll be drafting a QB in 2020.

That would be the "storm" that Brian Billick thinks could be coming our way (given his lack of belief that Lamar will rise above relying on his pure athleticism).

To me the worst case scenario is he gets hurt early and then we don't know what we have. Can we go into 2020 draft not knowing and not draft QB - especially if we go in the tank and have a high draft pick (which won't be hard to imagine in that scenario). Lamar is going to obviously need to show significant progress through the season for us to be able to rely on him as our franchise.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
So when I see a guy I believe is capable of throwing 3500 a year, I’ll say it, as he is CURRENTLY, I think 2000 passing and about 1000 rushing is his ceiling.

just a quibble

2000 yard season is 125 passing yards a game...

lamar's already with a limited passing attack and playbook averaging 163.5...

that's literally 14 yards per game under 3000 a year...

for his ceiling to be 2000 yards right now you'd have to be expecting both lamar and the passing game as a whole to take a gigantic step backwards because even in a holding pattern at his current rate he'd get over 2500 in a season...

to add some extra perspective: 3500 yards is less than 220 yards a game
 
just a quibble

2000 yard season is 125 passing yards a game...

lamar's already with a limited passing attack and playbook averaging 163.5...

that's literally 14 yards per game under 3000 a year...

for his ceiling to be 2000 yards right now you'd have to be expecting both lamar and the passing game as a whole to take a gigantic step backwards because even in a holding pattern at his current rate he'd get over 2500 in a season...

to add some extra perspective: 3500 yards is less than 220 yards a game
Yeah - thanks. 2K passing for the season would be beyond dreadful and your breakdown puts it into perspective.

In reality, we can't get too caught up in these kinds of stats. We've never been a stat driven team. It is that kind of stat analysis that has repeatedly told the league how Flacco wasn't as good as Schaub in the late 2000s, or any of the other QBs who had a better fantasy season than Flacco over the years. Most all of these QBs that have been "better than Flacco" have been out of the league for years.

It will be about results ... which sometimes means "managing" the game. That's become a dirty word, but there is nothing wrong with that. All it means is your QB is doing the things he needs to do to see the team to a W.

That's the only stat that matters.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
just a quibble

2000 yard season is 125 passing yards a game...

lamar's already with a limited passing attack and playbook averaging 163.5...

that's literally 14 yards per game under 3000 a year...

for his ceiling to be 2000 yards right now you'd have to be expecting both lamar and the passing game as a whole to take a gigantic step backwards because even in a holding pattern at his current rate he'd get over 2500 in a season...

to add some extra perspective: 3500 yards is less than 220 yards a game
Never was very good at math. Nor did I apply ANY context to what I was saying.

I’ll just fuck off now...
 

ravenslord

Ravens Ring of Honor
Brian Billick can kiss my ass. This lousy coach and strong advocate of bringing in Elvis Grbac, one of the worst decisions in Ravens history, is a piece of shit Lamar hater. Didn't he also want Kyle Boller?

Lamar has shown more in a few games than Grbac and Boller did in multiple seasons.

Man was I glad when his dumb ass was canned!!!!
 

BaltRavens

Practice Squad
In Billick's corner, he did win a Super Bowl, but could be held accountable for Boller as a bust.
 
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Tank

Hall of Famer
Billick’s take is based in facts. The Ravens have gone all in on a phenomenal athlete that in his words and many people’s opinion is a QB that ”can kinda throw”. It’s a huge gamble and just as Brian says it will be boom or bust. TBH it’s always seemed like an odd move to me and a peculiar gamble for a historically conservative and successful franchise to make.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Billick’s take is based in facts. The Ravens have gone all in on a phenomenal athlete that in his words and many people’s opinion is a QB that ”can kinda throw”. It’s a huge gamble and just as Brian says it will be boom or bust. TBH it’s always seemed like an odd move to me and a peculiar gamble for a historically conservative and successful franchise to make.
We are typically a successful franchise, who doesn’t often find ourselves in a position to obtain a new franchise qb

The team was bleeding fan support and we needed a spark

We took a gamble on a big spark for the fan base who may turn out to be a franchise qb and we did it at 32nd overall. The move made entirely too much sense, a bit of a gamble but an obvious one. I was shocked at the idea that we were finally moving on from joe and with a completely different style of qb, but not shocked that the move was made
 
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