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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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Inqui

Inqui

Pro Bowler
allblackraven said:
This is terrible, shooting in mosques in Christchurch, NZ

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213039

They say shooter was streaming live on facebook
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Absolutely horrific stuff. And pretty disturbing to think about it happening in a peaceful country like ours.

The discourse regarding Islam in particular has gotten downright vile over the past few years and it's hard not to feel like this is the fruit of that in at least some way.
 
gtalk12

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
Inqui said:
Absolutely horrific stuff. And pretty disturbing to think about it happening in a peaceful country like ours.

The discourse regarding Islam in particular has gotten downright vile over the past few years and it's hard not to feel like this is the fruit of that in at least some way.
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It is getting out of hand.
 
52520Andrew

52520Andrew

Pro Bowler
From his manifesto. His motivation may be completely wrong but the objective to create even more division could easily succeed
Finally, to create conflict between the two ideologies within the UnitedStates on the ownership of firearms in order to further the social, cultural, political and racial divide within the United states.This conflict over the2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights willultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.

This balkanization of the US will not only result in the racial separationof the people within the United States ensuring the future of the Whiterace on the North American continent, but also ensuring the death of the
“melting pot” pipe dream.
 
Inqui

Inqui

Pro Bowler
gtalk12 said:
It is getting out of hand.
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At least two people in prominent positions have called for a "final solution" in the past couple of years, and the amount of people I've seen justifying the treatment of the Rohingyya and the victims here has been sobering in the worst way. But even everyday stuff like people I know getting yelled at in the streets just because they're wearing a hijab and saying Muslims have no place in [insert Western society here] is also appalling and it creates an environment where these far more reprehensible things happen. I tend to stay out of discussions where things like that come up but for years I've been dismayed at the veracity and the toxicity of such sentiments, and that's honestly made me feel all the more helpless after yesterday. And as bad as it is for me to see and hear all that stuff I can only imagine how much more upsetting it must be for a Muslim.

I'm honestly at a loss over what to say or do (short of donating to Islamic charities or victim support groups). Everyone will come together for the victims (for the most part) but it won't be long before Muslims are back to being subjected to more scrutiny at airports and being yelled at in the street and so on. And the whole thing's just so disheartening.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Inqui said:
At least two people in prominent positions have called for a "final solution" in the past couple of years, and the amount of people I've seen justifying the treatment of the Rohingyya and the victims here has been sobering in the worst way. But even everyday stuff like people I know getting yelled at in the streets just because they're wearing a hijab and saying Muslims have no place in [insert Western society here] is also appalling and it creates an environment where these far more reprehensible things happen. I tend to stay out of discussions where things like that come up but for years I've been dismayed at the veracity and the toxicity of such sentiments, and that's honestly made me feel all the more helpless after yesterday. And as bad as it is for me to see and hear all that stuff I can only imagine how much more upsetting it must be for a Muslim.

I'm honestly at a loss over what to say or do (short of donating to Islamic charities or victim support groups). Everyone will come together for the victims (for the most part) but it won't be long before Muslims are back to being subjected to more scrutiny at airports and being yelled at in the street and so on. And the whole thing's just so disheartening.
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literally one of the first people onsite at the first mosque was a white guy in his van who rolled up and started laughing saying he wanted to come and watch the fun or some shit like that

its horrific

the only thing that can really be done is to put pressure on people in power to work towards erasing platforms for white supremacist groups and their neo-nazi affiliates etc. and to be conscious of what certain types of language and framing and images do to reinforce or challenge the ideas about Islam and Muslims that allows for (mostly) white men to be radicalised in this way
 
gtalk12

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
literally one of the first people onsite at the first mosque was a white guy in his van who rolled up and started laughing saying he wanted to come and watch the fun or some shit like that

its horrific

the only thing that can really be done is to put pressure on people in power to work towards erasing platforms for white supremacist groups and their neo-nazi affiliates etc. and to be conscious of what certain types of language and framing and images do to reinforce or challenge the ideas about Islam and Muslims that allows for (mostly) white men to be radicalised in this way
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This is where it gets scary. There are too many platforms that teeter the line on hate speech and thought they may not say it outright it is certainly implied at times.

This is where the right will come in and say "Freedom of Speech" to which I agree because I see the big picture. Today this and tomorrow something else. I get that part... HOWEVER, one can't deny that Freedom of Speech left unchecked has caused a massive rise of extremists on "both sides".


These platforms and their algorithms place people front and center to the information that they want to see and believe. I dread the world that this is becoming.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
JO_75 said:
This is not good, the people of New Zealand are letting their government win. The Prime Minister is of course calling for stricter gun laws but also asking gun owners to turn in their guns, and people are doing so. I hope that never happens here in the US, I mean I don't want it to happen in any country but damn the last thing you can do is let the government disarm you.

https://news.yahoo.com/zealand-rampage-suspect-fires-lawyer-122546421.html
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Disarmament is only seen as a bad thing in the US - and most of the guns are being voluntarily handed in

Seems like a pretty reasonable response to a tragedy tbh
 
Inqui

Inqui

Pro Bowler
JO_75 said:
This is not good, the people of New Zealand are letting their government win. The Prime Minister is of course calling for stricter gun laws but also asking gun owners to turn in their guns, and people are doing so. I hope that never happens here in the US, I mean I don't want it to happen in any country but damn the last thing you can do is let the government disarm you.

https://news.yahoo.com/zealand-rampage-suspect-fires-lawyer-122546421.html
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I never got (and don't think I ever will get) why the barometer for freedom has to be guns and not any number of other personal, institutional or democratic liberties. This is a country where cars and dogs have to be registered but guns don't. Adjusting the laws to fix a security flaw that's been exposed is hardly a first step to Orwell's 1984. It's only following Australia's trajectory (albeit 20 years behind) and you'll be hard-pressed to find a majority over there who want to go back to pre-Port Arthur massacre days.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Inqui said:
I never got (and don't think I ever will get) why the barometer for freedom has to be guns and not any number of other personal, institutional or democratic liberties. This is a country where cars and dogs have to be registered but guns don't. Adjusting the laws to fix a security flaw that's been exposed is hardly a first step to Orwell's 1984. It's only following Australia's trajectory (albeit 20 years behind) and you'll be hard-pressed to find a majority over there who want to go back to pre-Port Arthur massacre days.
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It’s an even more crazy response to fixing the loophole when the terrorist literally explained in his manifesto that he picked a gun as his weapon because it would stoke divisions in the US and would help rally the far right

I think it’s pretty telling when your viewpoint in a debate is shared by the person who instigated the tragedy upon which the debate is based in the first place

I still mourn for all those who’ve faced unimaginable loss over the last few days and my only hope is that this tragedy won’t be meaningless and I’m encouraged by the leadership of Jacinda Ardern and the way New Zealand politics has seemed to rally around the issue of gun control but also seems to be engaging in a wider public debate about racism and white supremacy

A conversation that could fizzle out but I hope it doesn’t because it’s important
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Willbacker said:
When it seems like you're only angered/triggered by white supremacy then yes that is my response. There's a lot of hate in this world.
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ridiculous - ive condemned and always condemn all acts of terrorism - and inherently i try and understand what the underlying issues are

im slightly worried that your only response to white supremacist terrorism is to "what about" with unrelated examples of islamist violence towards christian as if there's some sort of religious war going on - interesting that the cut off chosen in that article is 9/11 also

i also find it worrying that you're more worried about me being angry about white supremacy than you are at white supremacy...
 
Willbacker

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
ridiculous - ive condemned and always condemn all acts of terrorism - and inherently i try and understand what the underlying issues are

im slightly worried that your only response to white supremacist terrorism is to "what about" with unrelated examples of islamist violence towards christian as if there's some sort of religious war going on - interesting that the cut off chosen in that article is 9/11 also

i also find it worrying that you're more worried about me being angry about white supremacy than you are at white supremacy...
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I don't remember you ever doing that but I could be wrong and I hate white supremacy just as much as you. If you don't believe religious war goes on in mainly muslim countries then so be it.
 
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