Signings, Cuts, Trades

[rmcjacket23]

We do need another solid WR. When Watkins gets injured and misses his standard 4-5 games, who will we have that’s worth anything? Hollywood and... and... Andrews is a TE. Go ahead and stack 8 in the box, we won’t be able to beat it

You don't think teams have been stacking 8 in the box for the entirety of 2020? What types of defensive schemes do you think they were running on us?

 

[rmcjacket23]

It is true that in this offense we can't expect a WR to put up Jefferson numbers, but if we increase passing targets maybe 5 times a game it could make a significant difference. He still wouldn't have the same amount of targets as Hollywood and Andrews and yes it could reduce targets to those two, but we wouldn't be forcing it to them either and the offense could open up.

Before Lamar went out due to Covid or up until the bye week. I can't remember when the offense changed, were we passing the ball more per game?

I don't see 5 more pass attempts per game. You're talking 80 for a season. That's like a 20% increase.

5 years from now? Sure, I can see it. I just don't see the 2021 Ravens doing that. If Lamar is throwing 80-100 more passes this year, something has gone significantly wrong with this team and/or offense. Meaning, either our defense is going up like 25-30 points a week, and we have to throw to keep up, or our run game falls off a cliff. And if the objective is to win more football games, which SHOULD be the objective, I don't think that's going to happen in that range.

 

[ndub]

You don't think teams have been stacking 8 in the box for the entirety of 2020? What types of defensive schemes do you think they were running on us?

They were but damn at least we had Snead to rely on in addition to Hollywood. We have literally one receiver we can sorta rely on every week, and even he is inconsistent and small so who knows when he’ll get dinged up himself. Watkins is decent but he’s not going to give you a full year.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You don’t think a reduced salary cap is relevant to the amount teams are offering players ? That’s odd. It was clearly a down year for many positions when it comes to pay day.

Like i said smoke and mirrors. We have decent players at the spot , just no difference makers. Fans and front office alike know it. We’ll be drafting a WR high or making a trade for a quality guy.


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I certainly think a reduced cap reduced prices. That does not, however, mean that we would have offered JuJu $15M a year in a normal market. I just don't think we'd ever value this market of receivers in that range.

Keep in mind... like usual, the FA market for WRs usually sucks. I've seen nothing in 2021 that was any different. Sammy Watkins, in my eyes, was easily like a top 5 FA WR, once you take out those that are franchise tagged or extended, which was most of the top WRs in this class.

There is very rarely a premier WR who hits FA. And I don't expect that to change in the future. The really good one's are getting kept by their teams, and FA is left overpaying for WR2-WR3 types, which is pretty much what you saw in this market.

As I suggested, I don't think it necessarily helped or hurt the Ravens, because IF the Ravens were shopping in that price range, they were primarily focused on multi-year deals, as opposed to one year deals, because we can't afford a $10M cap hit for a WR in 2021. The reduced cap has much impact on structure of deals as totality of deals.

If we don't have difference makers already, which I think most fans disagree with you on that aspect, then we shouldn't bother drafting at all, because that's where our current difference makers come from. I think Hollywood is a difference maker, and so is Andrews. Doesn't mean we don't need more, but to suggest we don't have guys already is probably not realistic.

And remember... we don't have a top 5 or top 10 pick to just get a stud. We're picking at 27. There's no guarantee anybody we get in the first, second, or third rounds are going to be "difference makers". Historically, I can show you a long list of late first rounders who AREN'T difference makers. And that's only going to decrease the later you draft them.

I also already provided a lengthy explanation above of why, just based on sheer passing volume alone, I would NOT expect a difference maker player to have major stat lines in their rookie year, because this team just doesn't throw the football enough for that to happen.

So if it were me... I'd start tempering expectations now. It's not in any way reasonable to think that just because we don't come away with a WR on Thursday means we don't care about or don't value the position. A day 2 pick may be completely reasonable. But again, for a day 2 pick, you're likely looking at more of a complementary WR, rather than a Julio Jones-type. And for me, that's what I want. I want a bigger WR who can win contested catches, be an asset in the red zone, and also work the sidelines.

 

[rmcjacket23]

They were but damn at least we had Snead to rely on in addition to Hollywood. We have literally one receiver we can sorta rely on every week, and even he is inconsistent and small so who knows when he’ll get dinged up himself. Watkins is decent but he’s not going to give you a full year.

Watkins isn't a long term answer. Everybody knows that. The point is that if you want an "alpha", you're not likely to get that in the 2021 draft picking where we are. And if you're expecting the coaching staff to develop a day two pick into an alpha... show me when that's ever happened?

We're picking at 27. You may not even get one of the top 5 WRs in the draft class. You may not even have the option to get a player you want early, because they may be gone. Unless you're great at developing them, the kinds of receivers you typically get in the late first or day 2 range are complementary guys. They're not Julio's.

And I agree we need that. I just also know that when I come on these boards on Friday morning, and I see all the fans crying about how we don't care about WR because we didn't take one at 27, I'm going to laugh and mock all of them because they clearly don't understand what the FO is looking for.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You don’t think a reduced salary cap is relevant to the amount teams are offering players ? That’s odd. It was clearly a down year for many positions when it comes to pay day.

Like i said smoke and mirrors. We have decent players at the spot , just no difference makers. Fans and front office alike know it. We’ll be drafting a WR high or making a trade for a quality guy.


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I would also, again, reiterate how unlikely the "trade" idea is. I think fans look at some of the trades we've made and just assume that we can just trade for anybody we want, whenever we want.

There's a reason why when I ask people to give me names of trade targets, they generally can't. Because if you just look around the league, there is very little, if any, difference making WRs who would even remotely be available via trade. And its not like the Ravens are keen on giving up significant draft assets to get these guys either.

 

[ndub]

Watkins isn't a long term answer. Everybody knows that. The point is that if you want an "alpha", you're not likely to get that in the 2021 draft picking where we are. And if you're expecting the coaching staff to develop a day two pick into an alpha... show me when that's ever happened?

We're picking at 27. You may not even get one of the top 5 WRs in the draft class. You may not even have the option to get a player you want early, because they may be gone. Unless you're great at developing them, the kinds of receivers you typically get in the late first or day 2 range are complementary guys. They're not Julio's.

And I agree we need that. I just also know that when I come on these boards on Friday morning, and I see all the fans crying about how we don't care about WR because we didn't take one at 27, I'm going to laugh and mock all of them because they clearly don't understand what the FO is looking for.

I tend to agree with this, except the making fun of part. Just because the front office doesn’t value the position as highly as we hope for, it doesn’t mean they’re right and we’re all wrong

 

[rmcjacket23]

I tend to agree with this, except the making fun of part. Just because the front office doesn’t value the position as highly as we hope for, it doesn’t mean they’re right and we’re all wrong

No, it just means that they're responsible for roster construction and we're not, and so trying to pretend like we're all smarter than them is futile.

As I suggested before... part of the issue is I'm not convinced we (the fans) are even looking at the right "position" as a fix to our passing game woes.

I, for one, kind of hope we do draft a receiver early (i.e. first two rounds), because at that point, we officially stop talking about it for several more years. Andrews will likely get extended, Hollywood has at least 2-3 more years on the roster, and you'll have another high draft pick. That will be, unquestionably, a significant amount of resources developed to a position group. If the passing game doesn't grow dramatically at that point, there is no logical reason whatsoever to look at the "weapons" group as the problem.

Ravens have made 13 draft picks in the first 3 rounds the last three years. 9 of those have been on the offense, including a franchise QB, three WRs, two TEs (we traded one away), two Olineman, and a RB.

That's a franchise QB and FIVE weapons in a three year period, all within the first two days of the draft.

 

[JAAM]

I just also know that when I come on these boards on Friday morning, and I see all the fans crying about how we don't care about WR because we didn't take one at 27, I'm going to laugh and mock all of them because they clearly don't understand what the FO is looking for.

You’re so cool man. You can never just be wrong. I remember when you said there was no way we’d trade for Yannick before we did so I think you need to get over yourself, Buzz Killington.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You’re so cool man. You can never just be wrong. I remember when you said there was no way we’d trade for Yannick before we did so I think you need to get over yourself, Buzz Killington.

Might want to check the timeline of when I said that...

Also, kind of hard to argue that was a really good trade for us. A lot of the people suggesting we make that trade were throwing around phrases like "difference maker" and "gets us over the hump". Yeah, bout that...

 

[JAAM]

Might want to check the timeline of when I said that...

Also, kind of hard to argue that was a really good trade for us. A lot of the people suggesting we make that trade were throwing around phrases like "difference maker" and "gets us over the hump". Yeah, bout that...

Hindsight is 20/20. You were definitely against the trade before it happened. But whatever makes you feel better.

 

[Deebo813]

I still think you’re missing the point. We’re not trying to be the Chiefs in the sense that we’re going to be throwing 5000 yards and a year with guys getting tons of targets. But in terms of skill sets within the passing game, we are clearly trying to replicate that makeup. Don’t mistake failure to do so for not trying. We know we don’t have players as good as what the Chiefs have, but that doesn’t mean we still can’t try to find a similar rotation of guys and make that work for the offense we’re trying to run.

I dnt think we are trying to replicate their offense at all though... i think nfl coaches are much smarter than that by now.. like you say we are doing what works for us or atleast trying to.

 

[rossihunter2]

I dnt think we are trying to replicate their offense at all though... i think nfl coaches are much smarter than that by now.. like you say we are doing what works for us or atleast trying to.

but it's not that we're trying to copy it - it's that there are some stylistic and philosophical similarities in approaches both in terms of offence-building and actual play design

their receivers are used in similar ways and on similar types of plays moreso than other offences around the league

 

[rmcjacket23]

Hindsight is 20/20. You were definitely against the trade before it happened. But whatever makes you feel better.

Yup, I was. And it sounds like I was right about that too, in most people's eyes.
So I was wrong about the trade happening, and right about the trade not being something I wanted.

Sounds like a typical fan. Batting right around 50%...

 

[JAAM]

Yup, I was. And it sounds like I was right about that too, in most people's eyes.
So I was wrong about the trade happening, and right about the trade not being something I wanted.

Sounds like a typical fan. Batting right around 50%...

It was more so about you thinking we wouldn’t trade for a name like Yannick, not because of his production. Don’t try and change the narrative. It’s OK to admit you’re wrong at least once. Just once, Buzz. You can do it.

 

[Simba]

I dnt think we are trying to replicate their offense at all though... i think nfl coaches are much smarter than that by now.. like you say we are doing what works for us or atleast trying to.

Not their offense. How they appreciated building their weaponry and receiver group in particular. There are some stylistic similarities in how the offense is run but again, no one is saying we’re trying to replicate that.

 

[RavensMania]

I don't see 5 more pass attempts per game. You're talking 80 for a season. That's like a 20% increase.

5 years from now? Sure, I can see it. I just don't see the 2021 Ravens doing that. If Lamar is throwing 80-100 more passes this year, something has gone significantly wrong with this team and/or offense. Meaning, either our defense is going up like 25-30 points a week, and we have to throw to keep up, or our run game falls off a cliff. And if the objective is to win more football games, which SHOULD be the objective, I don't think that's going to happen in that range.

not sure what I was thinking and agree with you, we aren't increasing 20%. I was thinking 50 more passes in the season. Fifty more passes with an extra game isn't too much to ask and is only 3 more passes per game in a 17 game season.

How many passes did we have in 2019, just for comparison sake.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It was more so about you thinking we wouldn’t trade for a name like Yannick, not because of his production. Don’t try and change the narrative. It’s OK to admit you’re wrong at least once. Just once, Buzz. You can do it.

No, it was because I didn't want to give up the assets required to get somebody with his pedigree. I thought that was pretty clear...

 

[rmcjacket23]

not sure what I was thinking and agree with you, we aren't increasing 20%. I was thinking 50 more passes in the season. Fifty more passes with an extra game isn't too much to ask and is only 3 more passes per game in a 17 game season.

How many passes did we have in 2019, just for comparison sake.

2019 was 400, which was higher. 2020 he was actually at 376. So I'm already baking in the fact that he would return to a higher volume in 2019. 50 more passes from 2020 would only get him to 425, which would still be very low compared to any 16-game starter in the league. Still in the 25-30 attempts per game. And again, assuming that Andrews/Brown are getting roughly 15 of those, there's only 10-15 targets available for the entire rest of the roster.

Technically he's only played 15 games each of the last two years, so he's one game short. But attempts per game are still in the 25-27 range, which isn't high for a franchise QB.

 

[RavensMania]

2019 was 400, which was higher. 2020 he was actually at 376. So I'm already baking in the fact that he would return to a higher volume in 2019. 50 more passes from 2020 would only get him to 425, which would still be very low compared to any 16-game starter in the league. Still in the 25-30 attempts per game. And again, assuming that Andrews/Brown are getting roughly 15 of those, there's only 10-15 targets available for the entire rest of the roster.

Technically he's only played 15 games each of the last two years, so he's one game short. But attempts per game are still in the 25-27 range, which isn't high for a franchise QB.

he also left multiple games early in 2019 due to huge leads. I believe atleast 3 games he left early. Maybe 4 and he didn't play the last game.

I believe averaging 27 passes a game, which would bring us to 459 (17 games). Anyway, you are right that there could be two many mouths to feed based on sheer volume. That being said we should have more talent and feel the 2nd round is where that receiver should be taken, unless they are totally sold on a day 1 pick. I still feel Creed Humphrey, Teven Jenkins or Jaelen Phillips would be better picks and feel atleast one of them will be available, but I digress and this is for the draft thread anyway.