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The Battling, The Injuries and More Injuries

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
it's the only way to make the call - it's so obvious that it shouldnt be remotely controversial (because almost every HC does it this way now)

the reason you go for it the first time is really simple...
if you don't get it, you have more time to game-plan around not getting it and you know whether you need 1 score or 2 scores with more time to adjust one way or the other

if you kick the pat then you have learnt nothing, you still need a 2pt conversion, but now you've got less time to adjust if you dont make it

sure you've kept it a 1 score game for longer but that's meaningless if you're going to lose anyway
Kicking xp prevents you from being in a even worse position though. You keep momentum, players keep confidence and everything. like its really not close tbh, you kick xp there. On another note, we dnt kick onsides if we were to get 2pt on our 2nd score.. im trying to think of anyway that the 2pt is justifiable there i cant think of any reason. Maybe if it was like 3 mins left instead of 9 we likely kick xp? Idk like really
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator



so low ankle sprain at least - possibly a high ankle sprain

even with a low ankle sprain we're looking at a couple of weeks most likely
high ankle sprain we're potentially looking at somewhere between 2 and 7 weeks (most likely somewhere in the realm of 5-6 which is what latavius murray took)
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Kicking xp prevents you from being in a even worse position though. You keep momentum, players keep confidence and everything. like its really not close tbh, you kick xp there. On another note, we dnt kick onsides if we were to get 2pt on our 2nd score.. im trying to think of anyway that the 2pt is justifiable there i cant think of any reason. Maybe if it was like 3 mins left instead of 9 we likely kick xp? Idk like really

2 people have now explained the reason to you - it's not difficult

kicking the extra point just means you have to get the 2 point conversion later - and then if you dont get the 2 point conversion then... then you lose

so you might as well attempt it as early as possible to know if you're going to get it or not because if you get it then great, and if you don't get it then you've still got time to adjust and change your plan knowing you need 2 scores

it's not complicated, it's actually pretty simple
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
Kicking xp prevents you from being in a even worse position though. You keep momentum, players keep confidence and everything. like its really not close tbh, you kick xp there. On another note, we dnt kick onsides if we were to get 2pt on our 2nd score.. im trying to think of anyway that the 2pt is justifiable there i cant think of any reason. Maybe if it was like 3 mins left instead of 9 we likely kick xp? Idk like really

Add in you have the most accurate kicker in NFL history kicking a XP oooooooor a back up QB with limited reps going for two. You think Huntley is running that play in practice with starters very often ?? Nope


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Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
2 people have now explained the reason to you - it's not difficult

kicking the extra point just means you have to get the 2 point conversion later - and then if you dont get the 2 point conversion then... then you lose

so you might as well attempt it as early as possible to know if you're going to get it or not because if you get it then great, and if you don't get it then you've still got time to adjust and change your plan knowing you need 2 scores

it's not complicated, it's actually pretty simple

If the world were purely logical then it is a good idea, but at that point if you fail, you lose the momentum that you have. Suddenly the other team comes away feeling okay rather than feeling like their back is against the wall. If momentum were not a thing then it makes sense to go for 2 earlier but to keep momentum you want to come away from that drive feeling good.
 
Add in you have the most accurate kicker in NFL history kicking a XP oooooooor a back up QB with limited reps going for two. You think Huntley is running that play in practice with starters very often ?? Nope


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I'm so exasperated that this isn't getting through lol. That backup QB has to convert a two point conversation anyway. Just later. And if he fails you lose. Or, you try early. And if he fails that aforementioned kicker can be used to get the field goal you need. Which you can setup by playing with a higher tempo to get two scores. Instead of just losing. There is zero advantage in kicking the extra point. None. You still have to make a two point conversation.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
If the world were purely logical then it is a good idea, but at that point if you fail, you lose the momentum that you have. Suddenly the other team comes away feeling okay rather than feeling like their back is against the wall. If momentum were not a thing then it makes sense to go for 2 earlier but to keep momentum you want to come away from that drive feeling good.

drive felt pretty good to me
didnt change momentum at all...

going for 2 early meant we had a chance at an onside kick and a field goal to win it later rather than losing 2 consecutive weeks on failed 2 pt attempts...

i find it bizarre that there are at least 3 people arguing this on this forum - this isnt even a debate around the league... like it's settled that you go for the 2 pt at the earliest possible opportunity
 
If the world were purely logical then it is a good idea, but at that point if you fail, you lose the momentum that you have. Suddenly the other team comes away feeling okay rather than feeling like their back is against the wall. If momentum were not a thing then it makes sense to go for 2 earlier but to keep momentum you want to come away from that drive feeling good.
So this is where analytics does come in. Analytics tells you that this does not happen. It tells you that teams who go for two earlier win more. We know this because people wrote down what happened each time and checked for trends - that's what analytics is!
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
If the world were purely logical then it is a good idea, but at that point if you fail, you lose the momentum that you have. Suddenly the other team comes away feeling okay rather than feeling like their back is against the wall. If momentum were not a thing then it makes sense to go for 2 earlier but to keep momentum you want to come away from that drive feeling good.

Good point. Takes pressure off the Browns and right back on the Ravens. Ride the emotional momentum while you got it


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rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
So this is where analytics does come in. Analytics tells you that this does not happen. It tells you that teams who go for two earlier win more. We know this because people wrote down what happened each time and checked for trends - that's what analytics is!

like the colts comeback - we missed the 2pt when we started that comeback (and could have gone for 1 later) but it just meant we knew earlier that we had more time to adjust
 

ThatsMyJoeTerback

Ravens Ring of Honor
The funny thing about everyone shitting on Roman's 4th and 6 "call" (Huntley's hot route read) is that it's exactly what everyone has been screaming for to beat the blitz for weeks.
like you said - confirmation bias my friend. one of my biggest pet peeves is when people are so results-oriented. they don't care for the process on how to get to said result AT ALL.

the same people who complain about Roman's play calling are same people who praise the players when shit magically works??? like wtf is that logic?

the same people who complain about Harbaugh's decision to go for 2 when analytics and BASIC MATH say you should were the same people who complained about last week's 2 point try when Harbs put the game in the hands of his best player(s). yet these are the same people who will heap praise on Harbs for going for it on 4th down and 2 pointers when it works. it just makes no sense...

people who think only in terms of results have such an antiquated way of thinking about sports, and it carries over into their lives. it's impossible to discuss sports (and other things) with some of my friends because they think this way. it's the way people have thought for a long time, and it needs changing.

i swear some people need to take like an introductory econ class.
ok rant's over sorry lmao
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
We went right back down the field and scored again so this doesn't hold up at all.

Except we didn’t, we went 3 plays -14 yards and punted. The defense showed up and got us the ball back both times we needed it


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UPennChem

Hall of Famer
I know Murray scored on the 1 yard run, but like where were the running backs? Freeman seemed to get every touch. No Murray or Williams or McCrary really.
 

drjohnnyfever

Pro Bowler
disney-donald-duck.gif


Lamar next week...
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
I know Murray scored on the 1 yard run, but like where were the running backs? Freeman seemed to get every touch. No Murray or Williams or McCrary really.

I have to imagine we’ve just given up running the ball since our line can’t seem to get a push. They caught Murray on the bench later in the game, looked like he didn’t give two shits that a game was being played


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Except we didn’t, we went 3 plays -14 yards and punted. The defense showed up and got us the ball back both times we needed it


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We didn't? I guess you're taking issue with the phrasing "right back". The point is, we didn't fade away because our emotional momentum was irrevocably damaged - we put ourselves in position to win despite missing a 2 point conversion. There is no "despite missing a two point conversion" in the other scenario.
 

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
We didn't? I guess you're taking issue with the phrasing "right back". The point is, we didn't fade away because our emotional momentum was irrevocably damaged - we put ourselves in position to win despite missing a 2 point conversion. There is no "despite missing a two point conversion" in the other scenario.

Look my gut feeling was similar to some of the other guys who think keep the momentum is important. However, when I said it in the game chat and Rossi explained the other side, I can totally see that too. I think this is something that certain people will see one way and others will see another. I'm not sure either is technically wrong because we know teams have one both ways. Now if it is true teams have won more going for two earlier than that's quite interesting and I'd like to see by how big a margin given sample sizes and such.

If it's is substantial say by greater than 3 or 4% than I say it's unambiguous, go for it early. If it is like 1 or 2%, I'm not sure it's actually meaningful.

My only point is to say without the actual data it's hard for me to see how "obvious" it is because I can see both arguments.
 
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