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Signings, Cuts, Trades

Deebo813 said:
I want stingley so bad but got dam our dline and pass rushing suck..
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You guys think Stingley falling to 14? If Joe Douglas doesn’t scoop him up at 10, Vikings should be all over that at pick 12. I just don’t see it lol
 
drjohnnyfever said:
...and this is why wondering what we might get for him in the open market is not such a bad thing after Deshaun Watson's deal. I'll crawl back into my hole now. But wondering about what we could get or if we should pursue options given Lamar's stance.

There's nothing wrong with him wanting to play it slow. There's nothing wrong with us wanting to get a low number deal. That's negotiation. But if the guy doesn't get or doesn't feel the Ravens' commitment and is willing to get paid franchise tag money - that would cripple the team, or potentially so, then why not explore options that would solve many of our pressing problems on the team more quickly and cheaply and put us in a position to either draft or buy in FA a QB that would manage the assets at the teams disposal.

Listen, I love Lamar despite what Ross and others might think. I just speak the unspeakable. I would love him here, but if it cripples us, I don't. If Lamar accounts for so much of the payroll that it costs the team... so long. Someone mentioned Tom Brady in NE. He got paid really well and he was always ready to restructure to better the team. Hopefully Lamar will be too after we get him signed up, but if we can't - or don't think we can, there's nothing wrong with thinking about and planning on how to capitalize on Lamar. That's good business.

What happens after next year? He's tagged and then again - is that still the rule? We've paid him the ave. of the 5 highest salaries in the league for two years with no help on the cap - if he doesn't take the deal then, what next? He walks in FA and signs with whoever he desires and were left with a team without the guy who has carried us, as so many folks on here say he's doing now. Are people willing to get nothing for a generational player? I'm not. EDC should be reading the tea leaves and if it's apparent that there is an impasse and the guy just wants mad money that we can never really agree to then: Sayōnara Lamar.

btw, I only quote your post, RM because it connects to my poorly received post yesterday. Not because I'm calling you out. But I disagree that he couldn't reach FA. He could and will and to the detriment of this team if he does. All options must be considered despite how attached we might feel to Lamar.
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A bit of panic here I think.
1. I don't know that we've ever seen a player of his caliber get tagged twice and then walk in FA. So it would be literally groundbreaking if he did.
2. If you get to the point where you're in year 2 of franchise tags, and you've gotten likely into the offseason and he's still not signed, we'll just trade him most likely for whatever assets we can get. Won't get a Watson deal, but would still be multiple first rounders.

There's really only two ways his contract cripples the franchise:
1. He signs for a ton and doesn't play well or gets hurt
2. We draft poorly after we signed him

Second point really isn't Lamar's problem. The only real way a large QB contract is crippling for the team is if the QB starts to diminish as a player. It's the only thing that matters. Even if he takes up 20-25% of the cap, you can still very easily compete with that, provided he's playing well.
 
drjohnnyfever said:
...and this is why wondering what we might get for him in the open market is not such a bad thing after Deshaun Watson's deal. I'll crawl back into my hole now. But wondering about what we could get or if we should pursue options given Lamar's stance.
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Even if you get four 1st round picks for Lamar you are still at the mercy of the NFL draft to find a replacement. It wouldn't make sense to give up young proven talent for a crapshoot. You either crush your cap for the all-pro QB or take your chances setting your franchise back in the draft.
 
I wonder a few things on Lamar's contract or lack thereof:

1. Does Lamar want to be here? (The answer seems yes)
2. Is Lamar the kind of person who is so focused on winning & getting better he does not emphasize stuff like the contract business? Would make sense.
3. Is Lamar betting on himself because he feels Ravens lowballed him?
4. Is Lamar waiting to see other deals come through before he signs his?

I really struggle with these, but I honestly gravitate towards #2. I think he just doesn't care about the money right now. I think he is so focused on winning and getting better the money part is second to him. I say this because people who care about nothing but getting better get tunnel vision here. I can speak for myself here on this because I have done this very thing--got so good at some skills and spent so much time training there I didn't care about the pay until I decided it was time to focus on me than the money. I think when Lamar feels the urgency to do it, he will. I don't think it's #1 (fair question, though) & I'm not sure it's really #3 or 4.

So many guys have already signed before him--there's literally almost nobody left except Mayfield & Murray honestly who are/will be eligible. I don't think Lamar is getting lowballed by Ravens because everything I heard suggests we know the price tag. So, this leads me to believe it is #2.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in here
 
Grim said:
I wonder a few things on Lamar's contract or lack thereof:

1. Does Lamar want to be here? (The answer seems yes)
2. Is Lamar the kind of person who is so focused on winning & getting better he does not emphasize stuff like the contract business? Would make sense.
3. Is Lamar betting on himself because he feels Ravens lowballed him?
4. Is Lamar waiting to see other deals come through before he signs his?

I really struggle with these, but I honestly gravitate towards #2. I think he just doesn't care about the money right now. I think he is so focused on winning and getting better the money part is second to him. I say this because people who care about nothing but getting better get tunnel vision here. I can speak for myself here on this because I have done this very thing--got so good at some skills and spent so much time training there I didn't care about the pay until I decided it was time to focus on me than the money. I think when Lamar feels the urgency to do it, he will. I don't think it's #1 (fair question, though) & I'm not sure it's really #3 or 4.

So many guys have already signed before him--there's literally almost nobody left except Mayfield & Murray honestly who are/will be eligible. I don't think Lamar is getting lowballed by Ravens because everything I heard suggests we know the price tag. So, this leads me to believe it is #2.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in here
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I think it's mostly 2 sprinkled in with a little bit of 4 and 3 (to a much lesser extent). I would never say that he doesn't care about the money but it's clear he's not beating down the door to get it done, and that's because there's no deadline here. He doesn't have an agent so it's not like it's as easy to just call him up to hammer out the details. That's why I also believe that things will accelerate when he's back in the building in the coming months.

Obviously the Ravens would like a little more urgency here, but it'll get done. Maybe it's not this offseason but I'd put the odds on that on the lower side. To your question 2, this will be the Ravens' first attempt at locking him down in a situation where it's not business on the field. Offseason programs are lower key and as long as he shows up, there should be a good opportunity to knock something out.

All in all, just not having an agent complicates things.
 
I don’t think it’s Lamar not caring about the money. He literally said he wanted to be a billionaire on Lebron’s “The Shop”. Personally I think he’s going the Kirk Cousins route. Double tag and then sign the contract.
 
drjohnnyfever said:
...and this is why wondering what we might get for him in the open market is not such a bad thing after Deshaun Watson's deal. I'll crawl back into my hole now. But wondering about what we could get or if we should pursue options given Lamar's stance.

There's nothing wrong with him wanting to play it slow. There's nothing wrong with us wanting to get a low number deal. That's negotiation. But if the guy doesn't get or doesn't feel the Ravens' commitment and is willing to get paid franchise tag money - that would cripple the team, or potentially so, then why not explore options that would solve many of our pressing problems on the team more quickly and cheaply and put us in a position to either draft or buy in FA a QB that would manage the assets at the teams disposal.

Listen, I love Lamar despite what Ross and others might think. I just speak the unspeakable. I would love him here, but if it cripples us, I don't. If Lamar accounts for so much of the payroll that it costs the team... so long. Someone mentioned Tom Brady in NE. He got paid really well and he was always ready to restructure to better the team. Hopefully Lamar will be too after we get him signed up, but if we can't - or don't think we can, there's nothing wrong with thinking about and planning on how to capitalize on Lamar. That's good business.

What happens after next year? He's tagged and then again - is that still the rule? We've paid him the ave. of the 5 highest salaries in the league for two years with no help on the cap - if he doesn't take the deal then, what next? He walks in FA and signs with whoever he desires and were left with a team without the guy who has carried us, as so many folks on here say he's doing now. Are people willing to get nothing for a generational player? I'm not. EDC should be reading the tea leaves and if it's apparent that there is an impasse and the guy just wants mad money that we can never really agree to then: Sayōnara Lamar.

btw, I only quote your post, RM because it connects to my poorly received post yesterday. Not because I'm calling you out. But I disagree that he couldn't reach FA. He could and will and to the detriment of this team if he does. All options must be considered despite how attached we might feel to Lamar.
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I'll admit to thinking about a Lamar trade. I thought a bit more about the fact that if he puts up 3 or 4 performances next year resembling much of his play from last year and if he is inconsistent as thrower and you begin to see/ anticipate diminishing returns on the run component of his game... I don't know how you justify a 40 - 50 million per year deal.
 
All_black_everything said:
I don’t think it’s Lamar not caring about the money. He literally said he wanted to be a billionaire on Lebron’s “The Shop”. Personally I think he’s going the Kirk Cousins route. Double tag and then sign the contract.
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Operative words being "right now". Of course he cares, but it may not be his highest priority. And I would like to be a billionaire too. I would be worried if someone said they didn't want to be one.
 
All_black_everything said:
I don’t think it’s Lamar not caring about the money. He literally said he wanted to be a billionaire on Lebron’s “The Shop”. Personally I think he’s going the Kirk Cousins route. Double tag and then sign the contract.
Click to expand...
That would be crazy thinking. Placing a bet on 3 years with no major injuries, when he can pocket a quarter billion right now?
Nah, his mom wouldn't let him do that.
 
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