allblackraven
Hall of Famer
@rossihunter2 I had no intention of sounding funny. I reckon Jurgens is an animal.
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Signings, Cuts, Trades
- Thread starter RavensMania
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Oh lol - I thought you were joking...
I like him, and I do love his temperament but he’s 290lbs and doesn’t have some miracle anchor that belies his size - he’s a really nice prospect but I’d be genuinely stunned if he’s a raven
ndub
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah, you're right... they love the guys like Tyre Phillips who suck.. but hey, he's heavy and has plenty of size!!
does tyre suck though? or has he just been playing out of position for 2 years?
and we're also talking about C not OG where it seems like the majority of true C prospects coming out are all undersized ZBS guys and that's very much not the type of offence we run
ndub
Ravens Ring of Honor
Do tell what position Tyre would be good at. He's been played at every position but LT and C and he's sucked
ndub
Ravens Ring of Honor
So you think he'll be great at LG when he was clearly putrid at RG
I wouldn’t say he’s ever going to be great but I also think it’s hard to say what we have in him. He played RG his first year and then got hurt. He played T in college and it was his first time playing G. Then of course they had to flip flop him all around before ultimately winning the G job again… and then getting hurt again.
It’s just hard because he has all of the right qualities to play G and there’s a reason he’s won that job twice now. But he needs to get out of his own way on the injury front to ever realize that potential. Just such a small sample size for him but he’s shown some really good things at G in the short time he’s played there.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
So I think the public is generally overreacting to these types of deals though. If we really look at them, none of them are nearly as high as people think. Pretty much all of them have "funny money" salaries on the back end that are 1. 0% guaranteed and 2. have no shot of ever getting paid out.
Adams deal is more like $22M a year, and Tyreke's is barely $20M a year, when you cut through the bullshit.
as a rookie converting from T-G in a stilted offseason, he struggled but he also won an open competition for that job in camp and got injured after a few weeks and then got stuck playing tackle
as a 2nd year player he looked a lot better at G and again won an open competition, this time for LG and started the raiders game really well before he got injured in week 1 and then got stuck playing tackle again
i like him, i like the G tape he's put out there in preseason and in the few snaps i got to see in week 1 in 2021 - obviously that's not a lot to go on, but there's a reason he won that G competition
not gonna pretend he'll be "great" but i think there's nothing stopping him from being a solid starter there
I would say Tyreke's is most certainly 24m a year when you cut through everything. He is going to see the first 3 years of that deal no doubt. He will 100% not see the last year of that deal and year 4 is 50-50. Assuming he does not see year 4 you have 3 years of 6.5m, 31.2m, and 24.9m in cap hits plus 10.2m in dead cap after you cut him (if you pay him year 4 it would be 28m cap hit with 5m dead for year 5). So you have 72.6m in obligations in a 3 year deal or 95.5m in obligations in a 4 year deal. Either way you are looking at about 24m per year in terms of what you are paying him.
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rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
The yearly cash flow equates to $95.4M over four years, which is $23.8M per year. Ignoring the obvious, which is that's WAY, WAY, WAY short of the reported $30M per year, the guaranteed money is also substantially short of that as well.
At signing, it's $52.5M guaranteed, which only covers two years, and his 2024 salary guarantees in March 2023.
So the guaranteed portion of his deal is roughly the same AAV at $24M, but it's also only $72.5M over three years.
Like people are focused on Christian Kirk blowing up the market, but he's getting half the guaranteed money these guys are. He got $37M guaranteed over four years.
Mike Williams got $40M guaranteed, and so did Chris Godwin. They have almost identical deals.
Like these guys are getting big AAV deals that aren't translating into real $ and include a bunch of funny money on the back end that the player will never seen and the team will never pay.
So like yeah, if Deebo or Brown want to just be highest paid based on monopoly money, then those teams should give it to them. If I were the Ravens, I'd offer Deebo a 5 year, $300M contract tomorrow. I'd just make the base salaries in the last two years $120M each, and don't guarantee them.
And if he's stupid enough to take it, so be it. He'll get to claim he's the highest paid person ever, and he'll be both simultaneously right and wrong, especially when the check never comes.
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
I don't know what his playing weight was but at the combine he measured at 6'3" - 307lbs..
Pure zone guy though, so there's that.
tbf he wasnt actually a pure zone guy in college and is probably technically better on gap scheme stuff but he definitely projects better into a zone scheme
i like him
just dont think the ravens are gonna even be thinking about drafting him
I have started to question even the value of looking at guaranteed dollars when you have people signing deals like Mahomes where technically the contract is not guaranteed but in reality it is 100% guaranteed due to the structure of the deal. Of course deals like Hill where he is effectively (after roster/workout bonuses) going to earn 45m salary in the final year of the deal with minimal dead cap for cutting and know that it goes in the exact opposite direction.
Kirk's is somewhere in the middle of that. He is basically guaranteed the first 2 years where if they cut him after he made 2 years and 39 million. If they keep him for year 3, 50-50 considering the dead money to cap savings ratio, then it is a 3 year 55 million dollar contract. The dead money makes him uncuttable for the first 2 years and the 3rd year he is more cuttable but it still is not a lot of savings. It is a very bad contract all around because even though the money is not guaranteed the contract is structured in a way that it is better for your cap to pay it regardless.
if we're adding a receiver with the 14th pick...
it better be a drafted one lol - im not giving up a 1st round pick for 1 year of control on deebo
JAAM
Hall of Famer
That's a good point. I didn't think of it like that. What if Deebo comes with a new contract extension instead of him being a one year rental?