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The Defense, the Offense, and the Crabtree....

RayRayRaven

RayRayRaven

Veteran
Edgar said:
The Ravens’ red zone woes started in the second quarter when Flacco threw an interception to Browns cornerback Denzel Ward on a pass that Walker referred to as “an ill-advised throw into double coverage.” Flacco said after the game that he was trying to throw the ball away to tight end Nick Boyle’s feet, but the pass got deflected. (from Baltimore ravens.com)

He definitely didn't get that ball deflected throwing toward the ground. It looked live as if he was forcing the ball to Boyle but It looks like he could have been targeting Snead in the corner.
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Flacco was throwing for the Tight End on the out pattern. Your analysis of him missing the wide open slot Tight End when Crabtree had one of his drops was poignant. Have always believed Flacco is not reading a defense and your post illustrated it again. Still, he's the best we have and everyone can point to plays that cost us the game. Mine is Humpf getting easily toasted for the easiest of 20 yard TD's with 20 seconds left in the half. Dumb is Dumb and Dumb is not coachable.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
29BmoreBird22 said:
Completely disagree. Why do you need to be in a position where a dropped pass is the decider in a game where the opponent scored 9 points? Why is a single play, out of 72 in regulation, mind you, the deciding factor in a game where the opposing offense did nothing? No, this play should not hold more weight. The Ravens should have taken care of business and gotten it done early. Never put yourself in this position.
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Because if that ball is caught, the game is won and barring some miraculous shit there isn’t much that can be done to change that.

Idk why posters here want to be so critical to the point that you can’t just make it simple and point out the obvious. Yes, an entire 4 quarters leads to the end result, but a game winning play at the end is exactly that, and when that play is blown it’s the final nail in the coffin, it stands out among others because the result of that play is final. Am I saying joe doesn’t deserve blame because crab dropped the game winner? No, he deserves all kinds of blame for playing a poor game, but the RESULT of Crabtree’s drop holds more weight than joes pick, because of the finality of it. No points were scored off of joes pick, it took points off the board, but the game can be rallied afterwards and things can be done to change the course of the game from both teams, you can’t do anything to change the end result when crab dropped that ball, it was decided at that point that we either lose to a late FG or go to overtime, if he just catches it then that isn’t a problem and we almost certainly win. You can’t say the same for things that happened in the first half, that’s just conjecture and rides on the premise that EVERYTHING goes exactly the same as it went.
 
C

Crabcruncher

Practice Squad
Second game on a three game road trip, always tough.They will be fine once they get out of Tennessee.
I forget, does one fuck up cancel ten ataboys still. Never understood that formula, always seemed a little unfair.
But what da hey, let em stay.
 
redrum52

redrum52

Hall of Famer
JoeyFlex5 said:
Because if that ball is caught, the game is won and barring some miraculous shit there isn’t much that can be done to change that.

Idk why posters here want to be so critical to the point that you can’t just make it simple and point out the obvious. Yes, an entire 4 quarters leads to the end result, but a game winning play at the end is exactly that, and when that play is blown it’s the final nail in the coffin, it stands out among others because the result of that play is final. Am I saying joe doesn’t deserve blame because crab dropped the game winner? No, he deserves all kinds of blame for playing a poor game, but the RESULT of Crabtree’s drop holds more weight than joes pick, because of the finality of it. No points were scored off of joes pick, it took points off the board, but the game can be rallied afterwards and things can be done to change the course of the game from both teams, you can’t do anything to change the end result when crab dropped that ball, it was decided at that point that we either lose to a late FG or go to overtime, if he just catches it then that isn’t a problem and we almost certainly win. You can’t say the same for things that happened in the first half, that’s just conjecture and rides on the premise that EVERYTHING goes exactly the same as it went.
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Aren't you doing that exact thing by just saying if he catches the ball games over? Kick can be returned, PI, poor tackling. You're assuming everything remains the same and the Browns don't score.
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
arnie_uk said:
He's 26 4th qtr comebacks in his (10?) Year career it said on Sunday. Id hazard a guess they're quite evenly spread out so I'll go last season.
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For that particular stat, Flacco should get plenty of slack for most years when Pees was DC though. In light of that, 26 seems quite remarkable.
 
2

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
JoeyFlex5 said:
Because if that ball is caught, the game is won and barring some miraculous shit there isn’t much that can be done to change that.

Idk why posters here want to be so critical to the point that you can’t just make it simple and point out the obvious. Yes, an entire 4 quarters leads to the end result, but a game winning play at the end is exactly that, and when that play is blown it’s the final nail in the coffin, it stands out among others because the result of that play is final. Am I saying joe doesn’t deserve blame because crab dropped the game winner? No, he deserves all kinds of blame for playing a poor game, but the RESULT of Crabtree’s drop holds more weight than joes pick, because of the finality of it. No points were scored off of joes pick, it took points off the board, but the game can be rallied afterwards and things can be done to change the course of the game from both teams, you can’t do anything to change the end result when crab dropped that ball, it was decided at that point that we either lose to a late FG or go to overtime, if he just catches it then that isn’t a problem and we almost certainly win. You can’t say the same for things that happened in the first half, that’s just conjecture and rides on the premise that EVERYTHING goes exactly the same as it went.
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But it doesn't hold any more weight because the Ravens had TWO more chances in OT and absolutely botched both. No single play should hold more weight than another on a day where your defense holds an opponent to 9 points.

Let me ask this- does it hold more weight if the Ravens win?
 
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29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Draw your own conclusions:

The Ravens are now 3-12 when Flacco throws over 50 times. Flacco has an NFL record for most games of at least 50 pass attempts without 300 yards.

The Ravens are 4th in rushing attempts, but 30th in YPC.

When asked about the run pass ratio being so lopsided, Harbaugh said, "We ran 28 times, didn't we? That's a lot, isn't it?" Correction, Harbs- the Ravens ran 25 times with 5 being from Flacco or Lamar. Only 20 from a running back. That's about 20% of the playcalls.
 
DeVito52

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
JoeyFlex5 said:
Because if that ball is caught, the game is won and barring some miraculous shit there isn’t much that can be done to change that.

Idk why posters here want to be so critical to the point that you can’t just make it simple and point out the obvious. Yes, an entire 4 quarters leads to the end result, but a game winning play at the end is exactly that, and when that play is blown it’s the final nail in the coffin, it stands out among others because the result of that play is final. Am I saying joe doesn’t deserve blame because crab dropped the game winner? No, he deserves all kinds of blame for playing a poor game, but the RESULT of Crabtree’s drop holds more weight than joes pick, because of the finality of it. No points were scored off of joes pick, it took points off the board, but the game can be rallied afterwards and things can be done to change the course of the game from both teams, you can’t do anything to change the end result when crab dropped that ball, it was decided at that point that we either lose to a late FG or go to overtime, if he just catches it then that isn’t a problem and we almost certainly win. You can’t say the same for things that happened in the first half, that’s just conjecture and rides on the premise that EVERYTHING goes exactly the same as it went.
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“You can’t do anything to change the end result when Crab dropped the ball....we just go into overtime.”

A little contradicting here don’t you think...we had the entirety of overtime to win the game. And he didn’t lose it in overtime.
 
2

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
RayRayRaven said:
Just two truths.
I'll rest this game, on the blown plays by Humpf and his absence when he should otherwise have been in.
I'm sorry you have such high regard for a guy that is gonna bust at Corner. But then you've already stated you can't tell talent to save your life. (You didn't have to say it though).
If we had a chance to get to the playoffs this year, Humpf is gonna hurt us if he's back there.
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Just so we're all clear, here is what I wrote about Humphrey on May 17, 2017...

"Mitchell shows a stutter step and is easily able to run past Humphrey who opened his hips too early. A better-thrown pass turns this into a long completion down the sideline. The final issue that stands out is that while Humphrey is often late to open his hips out of press man coverage, he is often too early opening his hips inside or outside from off man coverage."

Now, why do I bold the specific part of my scouting report? Because that's exactly what Humphrey did on Sunday- he over committed to the sideline by opening his hips and essentially ran with his back to the receiver (still hell of a job staying in phase until the stem of the route) and got lost on the play because he couldn't make the 180 and follow over the middle.

But wait, I have no idea what I'm talking about! Even though I pointed to this as an issue back over a year ago before Humphrey had taken a single snap as a professional.

Also, you questioned Humphrey's speed as 4.41, but he was on Alabama's track team and to my understanding, he was quite good as a sprinter.

The thing is, you're such a bad troll. You're not discreet about it; it's painfully obvious.
 
Tank

Tank

Hall of Famer
JoeyFlex5 said:
Because if that ball is caught, the game is won and barring some miraculous shit there isn’t much that can be done to change that.

Idk why posters here want to be so critical to the point that you can’t just make it simple and point out the obvious. Yes, an entire 4 quarters leads to the end result, but a game winning play at the end is exactly that, and when that play is blown it’s the final nail in the coffin, it stands out among others because the result of that play is final. Am I saying joe doesn’t deserve blame because crab dropped the game winner? No, he deserves all kinds of blame for playing a poor game, but the RESULT of Crabtree’s drop holds more weight than joes pick, because of the finality of it. No points were scored off of joes pick, it took points off the board, but the game can be rallied afterwards and things can be done to change the course of the game from both teams, you can’t do anything to change the end result when crab dropped that ball, it was decided at that point that we either lose to a late FG or go to overtime, if he just catches it then that isn’t a problem and we almost certainly win. You can’t say the same for things that happened in the first half, that’s just conjecture and rides on the premise that EVERYTHING goes exactly the same as it went.
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Perfectly logical and correct. Could the Browns have scored a TD in final moments after Crab’s(POTENTIAL) TD catch? Yes, but given the amount of time left it would have taken some sort of unlikely miracle play. So it’s pretty safe to say if that catch is made, game over.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
DeVito52 said:
“You can’t do anything to change the end result when Crab dropped the ball....we just go into overtime.”

A little contradicting here don’t you think...we had the entirety of overtime to win the game. And he didn’t lose it in overtime.
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If he catches it, that never becomes an issue.

I don’t recall much of OT as I was fucking pissed, but For this arguments sake, on a similar note, if Moore doesn’t block in the back that’s almost certainly a win as well. So that play holds a shitload of weight as well
 
2

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
JoeyFlex5 said:
If he catches it, that never becomes an issue.

I don’t recall much of OT as I was fucking pissed, but For this arguments sake, on a similar note, if Moore doesn’t block in the back that’s almost certainly a win as well. So that play holds a shitload of weight as well
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There were, to me, a lot of plays that hold weight for various reasons. The play where Hurst was flat out tackled on third down before the ball was even touched, Flacco was also tackled around the neck. Protecting the quarterback my ass.

The obvious hold in the end zone which would have been a safety and ended the game?

The Joe Flacco interception.

There's way too much going on to single out one play.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Ok guys, you’re right, the first offensive snap of the game holds just as much weight as Crabtree’s dropped pass. you’re right, every single play matters just as much as the dropped pass at the very end that sealed our fate to go to OT. A run play for 1 yard in the first quarter is as consequential to the end result as Chris Moore’s block in the back because if the 1 yard run was broke for a TD we never would’ve needed a clean block in OT in the first place!
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
29BmoreBird22 said:
There were, to me, a lot of plays that hold weight for various reasons. The play where Hurst was flat out tackled on third down before the ball was even touched, Flacco was also tackled around the neck. Protecting the quarterback my ass.

The obvious hold in the end zone which would have been a safety and ended the game?

The Joe Flacco interception.

There's way too much going on to single out one play.
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I’ll agree here, I never said the dropped pass was all that counted, I said plenty of times that there is so much ugly in this game that yeah we could’ve won it by executing a number of different plays, but that Crabtree catch wins the game at the end, the Collins run without the block in the back wins the game, a flag being thrown on that clear PI(I seriously don’t know how it wasn’t called) almost wins the game, an endzone hold wins it, but 3 of 4 plays there happened in OT which we would’ve never needed if crab just catches it lol
 
2

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
JoeyFlex5 said:
I’ll agree here, I never said the dropped pass was all that counted, I said plenty of times that there is so much ugly in this game that yeah we could’ve won it by executing a number of different plays, but that Crabtree catch wins the game at the end, the Collins run without the block in the back wins the game, a flag being thrown on that clear PI(I seriously don’t know how it wasn’t called) almost wins the game, an endzone hold wins it, but 3 of 4 plays there happened in OT which we would’ve never needed if crab just catches it lol
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It was just your post suggesting, basically, that this was the penultimate mistake in the game, which I'd disagree with, personally.

That Cleveland defense is legit (they are star studded all the way through), but there is zero reason for the Ravens to have not scored a single touchdown when so many of their drives started at the 40+ of Baltimore. Crabtree's drop was just a perfect combination of all the garbage from the offense on the day.
 
2

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
JoeyFlex5 said:
Ok guys, you’re right, the first offensive snap of the game holds just as much weight as Crabtree’s dropped pass. you’re right, every single play matters just as much as the dropped pass at the very end that sealed our fate to go to OT. A run play for 1 yard in the first quarter is as consequential to the end result as Chris Moore’s block in the back because if the 1 yard run was broke for a TD we never would’ve needed a clean block in OT in the first place!
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Well, while you're being sarcastic, this is largely true, honestly. The Ravens are going to go through every single play where they feel there was an issue (was a simple incompletion just that, or was it an issue with Joe not scanning the field and seeing an open man?) and the Ravens will evaluate each play to see where the mistakes were made to not even put themselves in a position to have a single play at the end of the game matter. For 59 minutes, the Ravens played like absolute garbage offensively, but it's that 1 play out of 72 that holds the most weight? I'm not buying that.

And that's not to say that Crabtree shouldn't have caught it or gets a free pass- he absolutely should have caught it and the Ravens should have won, but you can be damn sure the Ravens aren't watching only that play and going, "Yep, that's where we lost."
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
29BmoreBird22 said:
Well, while you're being sarcastic, this is largely true, honestly. The Ravens are going to go through every single play where they feel there was an issue (was a simple incompletion just that, or was it an issue with Joe not scanning the field and seeing an open man?) and the Ravens will evaluate each play to see where the mistakes were made to not even put themselves in a position to have a single play at the end of the game matter. For 59 minutes, the Ravens played like absolute garbage offensively, but it's that 1 play out of 72 that holds the most weight? I'm not buying that.

And that's not to say that Crabtree shouldn't have caught it or gets a free pass- he absolutely should have caught it and the Ravens should have won, but you can be damn sure the Ravens aren't watching only that play and going, "Yep, that's where we lost."
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Again, I’m not saying that’s the only play that cost us, I said that the Crabtree drop holds the most weight BECAUSE the end result of a catch there would have been final, nothing in OT happens, there is almost zero chance of altering the course of the game afterwards.
29BmoreBird22 said:
It was just your post suggesting, basically, that this was the penultimate mistake in the game, which I'd disagree with, personally.

That Cleveland defense is legit (they are star studded all the way through), but there is zero reason for the Ravens to have not scored a single touchdown when so many of their drives started at the 40+ of Baltimore. Crabtree's drop was just a perfect combination of all the garbage from the offense on the day.
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Again I’m not saying it’s the “penultimate mistake”, just that if you single out every play, and put it into context, that was the most damning one and hardest to forgive, because it wins the game right then and there for us despite all the shit play prior and afterwards.
 
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