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The Random Thought Thread

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I still maintain opinion I formed during the game - our downfall was Ingram's injury combined with the fact that Roman didn't want to trust Edwards. It turned into Lamar being our only runner, relieving Titans defense of having to guess anything.
Exactly, that paired with their ability to shut down the TEs totally nullified our offense. This is an option based offense that worked so well because Lamar was so deadly at said options, he made the right read always and he executed the task incredibly well, you take so much pressure off of the defense when you remove that element entirely
 
Gus who put 130 yards against the Steelers D that didnt have to worry about Lamar. For me its the Andrews tipped int, he catches that and we win the game

Yeah the int. on the Andrews tipped pass was huge. Allot of bad things happened after that but that forced us to play from behind, which this offense has had issues with. I am still miffed as to why Roman did not use Gus more then he did.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I still maintain opinion I formed during the game - our downfall was Ingram's injury combined with the fact that Roman didn't want to trust Edwards. It turned into Lamar being our only runner, relieving Titans defense of having to guess anything.
actually Lamar makes the decision on whether to keep the ball or let Gus take the handoff and you can't really argue with the decision since he had over 6 ypc.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Gus who put 130 yards against the Steelers D that didnt have to worry about Lamar. For me its the Andrews tipped int, he catches that and we win the game

exactly - he catches that and we're driving in the titans territory and likely getting some points - we didnt lead once in the titans game but if andrews catches that ball then we likely have a lead to start with and the titans dont get to start with a short field too - crowd's up, titans got stopped on the first drive and ravens offence likely settled and in rhythm - might be game over 2 possessions later...
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
actually Lamar makes the decision on whether to keep the ball or let Gus take the handoff and you can't really argue with the decision since he had over 6 ypc.

titans decided to sell out on the inside runs and live with lamar beating them outside - seems like something insane to do but the 49ers did it also with some success earlier in the year where they automatically crash the ends and force the give and get pursuit over the top instantly
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Anyone know how many yards lamar avgs on his
scrambles? Gotta be atleast 15
@RavensMania

courtesy of https://twitter.com/Yoshi2052 on twitter i have the exact scramble numbers - you can find the doc here:

Through week 17, Lamar scrambled 37 times for 380 yards (10.27 ypc) and 1 TD

EDIT: wow had no idea it would embed the spreadsheet - that's cool
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
Its been easy for me to be disappointed in Boykin but lets face it ; he was never really made a part of the offense. We didn't look for him. There had to be four or five times ( not including 1 in the playoffs) where he was behind the defense and was open for a big gain or a TD and Lamar didn't see him.
Too many times his route is nothing more than a clear out for the middle of the field or to take defenders away from the run. He wasn't part of this offense. The guy ran a ton of slants and targeted sits in college and I remember just one slant route here, (he dropped it ).
No route diversity and not targets or effort to game plan him some throws.
How does the offense change moving froward to include either Boykin or a draft pick?
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Its been easy for me to be disappointed in Boykin but lets face it ; he was never really made a part of the offense. We didn't look for him. There had to be four or five times ( not including 1 in the playoffs) where he was behind the defense and was open for a big gain or a TD and Lamar didn't see him.
Too many times his route is nothing more than a clear out for the middle of the field or to take defenders away from the run. He wasn't part of this offense. The guy ran a ton of slants and targeted sits in college and I remember just one slant route here, (he dropped it ).
No route diversity and not targets or effort to game plan him some throws.
How does the offense change moving froward to include either Boykin or a draft pick?

i think conceptually the offence has to change a bit - obviously we just had a historic rushing offence but that's going to be very difficult to replicate as teams find solutions to the running scheme and concepts we employ most with those personnel and analytics tell us that passing adds more value on early downs than running especially 2nd and short so I think we have to evolve the offence to be slightly more balanced than it was and that might mean going empty more often or actually running RPOs (which we hardly used this year despite what the media told us all year) - not sure though tbh that within the framework of this current offence that there's a solution to boykin's usage beyond him just getting better and forcing his way onto the field
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
Its been easy for me to be disappointed in Boykin but lets face it ; he was never really made a part of the offense. We didn't look for him. There had to be four or five times ( not including 1 in the playoffs) where he was behind the defense and was open for a big gain or a TD and Lamar didn't see him.
Too many times his route is nothing more than a clear out for the middle of the field or to take defenders away from the run. He wasn't part of this offense. The guy ran a ton of slants and targeted sits in college and I remember just one slant route here, (he dropped it ).
No route diversity and not targets or effort to game plan him some throws.
How does the offense change moving froward to include either Boykin or a draft pick?

i think conceptually the offence has to change a bit - obviously we just had a historic rushing offence but that's going to be very difficult to replicate as teams find solutions to the running scheme and concepts we employ most with those personnel and analytics tell us that passing adds more value on early downs than running especially 2nd and short so I think we have to evolve the offence to be slightly more balanced than it was and that might mean going empty more often or actually running RPOs (which we hardly used this year despite what the media told us all year) - not sure though tbh that within the framework of this current offence that there's a solution to boykin's usage beyond him just getting better and forcing his way onto the field
I mean I think let’s also face it too—Boykin hasn’t made the most of his opportunities when he has seen the ball. He’s caught some but I know I recall some drops as well. We’ve seen flashes here and there but he hasn’t put it together. He’s still a rookie so we’ll see how he and the team adjusts next year.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I mean I think let’s also face it too—Boykin hasn’t made the most of his opportunities when he has seen the ball. He’s caught some but I know I recall some drops as well. We’ve seen flashes here and there but he hasn’t put it together. He’s still a rookie so we’ll see how he and the team adjusts next year.

edgar's referring to earlier in the regular season especially where boykin would be wide open down the field only for the ball to go somewhere else (often for a positive play but not for the huge gainer) - its not just about what he's doing with his targets but also about how he gets more targets given what we saw on film this season
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
edgar's referring to earlier in the regular season especially where boykin would be wide open down the field only for the ball to go somewhere else (often for a positive play but not for the huge gainer) - its not just about what he's doing with his targets but also about how he gets more targets given what we saw on film this season
It sounds more like he’s saying that the offense needs to evolve because Boykin or anyone else we bring here may not make much impact. I agree with him wholeheartedly there. I think we’ve lauded Roman and rightly so but he has a lot of work to do in getting the passing game going. Maybe I misread his intent, but that’s how I saw it. I agree, too; I just also question whether Boykin can make the leap when called upon as well. I’m hoping he does because he has some nice attributes.
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
i think conceptually the offence has to change a bit - obviously we just had a historic rushing offence but that's going to be very difficult to replicate as teams find solutions to the running scheme and concepts we employ most with those personnel and analytics tell us that passing adds more value on early downs than running especially 2nd and short so I think we have to evolve the offence to be slightly more balanced than it was and that might mean going empty more often or actually running RPOs (which we hardly used this year despite what the media told us all year) - not sure though tbh that within the framework of this current offence that there's a solution to boykin's usage beyond him just getting better and forcing his way onto the field
Ive been thinking along those lines as well as far as the offense evolving. It really shouldn't stay exclusively what it was last year. And to me that starts up front . Continuing to build a line that ANYONE could run behind because its just that dominant. without always having to shift/overload and motion....not saying I want that to disappear by a long stretch.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
It sounds more like he’s saying that the offense needs to evolve because Boykin or anyone else we bring here may not make much impact. I agree with him wholeheartedly there. I think we’ve lauded Roman and rightly so but he has a lot of work to do in getting the passing game going. Maybe I misread his intent, but that’s how I saw it. I agree, too; I just also question whether Boykin can make the leap when called upon as well. I’m hoping he does because he has some nice attributes.

no that's absolutely right
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Ive been thinking along those lines as well as far as the offense evolving. It really shouldn't stay exclusively what it was last year. And to me that starts up front . Continuing to build a line that ANYONE could run behind because its just that dominant. without always having to shift/overload and motion....not saying I want that to disappear by a long stretch.

has the added benefit of giving lamar more time in the passing game - and lamar with a good pocket has been lethal so far in his career
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
Speaking of that tipped INT, that's the 3rd INT that Byard has on us. I swear, it's like he just happens to be in the right place, right time. Mind boggling.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Its been easy for me to be disappointed in Boykin but lets face it ; he was never really made a part of the offense. We didn't look for him. There had to be four or five times ( not including 1 in the playoffs) where he was behind the defense and was open for a big gain or a TD and Lamar didn't see him.
Too many times his route is nothing more than a clear out for the middle of the field or to take defenders away from the run. He wasn't part of this offense. The guy ran a ton of slants and targeted sits in college and I remember just one slant route here, (he dropped it ).
No route diversity and not targets or effort to game plan him some throws.
How does the offense change moving froward to include either Boykin or a draft pick?
It’s simple, run a designed route for the guy ffs lol. Take something you would’ve done with andrews or hurst, swap Boykin, and maybe adjust the play to get Boykin wider and more space to run if desired.

Beyond that, just diversify his tree some, stop making him a decoy, get him isolated on the boundary and design some back shoulder throws for him, and work some slants and seams with him as the first read.

Lamar clearly has his rapport with andrews and he seems to shy away from most others, design plays for Boykin and Lamar will begin looking his way more.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
It’s simple, run a designed route for the guy ffs lol. Take something you would’ve done with andrews or hurst, swap Boykin, and maybe adjust the play to get Boykin wider and more space to run if desired.

Beyond that, just diversify his tree some, stop making him a decoy, get him isolated on the boundary and design some back shoulder throws for him, and work some slants and seams with him as the first read.

Lamar clearly has his rapport with andrews and he seems to shy away from most others, design plays for Boykin and Lamar will begin looking his way more.

i do think that was partly the problem - he was too far along in the reads and i dont think lamar trusted him to consistently win 1v1 enough to peak his way early
 
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