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Signings, Cuts, Trades

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
I know a lot of you don't like the pessimism from Sami, because he's extremely hard to please, but don't you think he's right on this one? I'm talking losing Brockers. To me that seems like a huge blunder. And that's why I posted a page ago, my default reaction is EDC has something in store in FA, because if he doesn't, I really think this was a big big mistake. Look at the tune of everyone now. They're being pretty pragmatic and saying maybe we should move back on the draft when yesterday we were talking about moving up. I know it's one piece, but now we have a huge hole at a position we didn't have last year on top of the ones we already had.

It's the overreaction and the "always wanting to be right" attitude. Sami went from "I like the Brockers signing" to "Brockers was a waste of money" in like a 12 hour period. Now that Brockers isn't signing here, he's back to his "the world is ending and the Ravens suck" attitude.

It sucks to lose Brockers and I don't think anyone is doubting that. It's not a world is falling situation like it's made out to be by certain people though.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
It's the overreaction and the "always wanting to be right" attitude. Sami went from "I like the Brockers signing" to "Brockers was a waste of money" in like a 12 hour period. Now that Brockers isn't signing here, he's back to his "the world is ending and the Ravens suck" attitude.

It sucks to lose Brockers and I don't think anyone is doubting that. It's not a world is falling situation like it's made out to be by certain people though.

I had mixed feelings about our FA because i felt we could have been more clever and decisive with dealing with few needs. Brockers is an improvement over wormley. Did i LOVE the player? Not really BUT taking into account how we've done very little and he was an improvement over wormley and a good fit I thought ''Okay, well at least we have sorted the interior''

now we have jackshit in the interior and edge and ILB.
 

LSURavenFan

Veteran
I have a sneaking suspicion EDC at least engages the Clowney camp in talks. Ravens may not be able to offer him the most money, but it can be argued he would be put in the best chance to win a Super Bowl here. Short-term deal, playing on a high end team, prove he's healthy and then cash in big time in a year or two.

It would be tricky, with the cap situation, but nobody thought EDC would land Thomas either..

As for the Brockers deal, it sucks. But I can't blame the Ravens for not committing 21mill in guarantees to a big man with a bad ankle
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
This is the NFL. A team is more than capabale of going from great to crap in 1 year.

Yes but that generally requires either injuries or a downgrade in talent. Nothing can really be done about the former and the latter just did not happen. Its happened to a LOT of teams in the NFL this offseason, some more than others, but it did not happen to the Ravens. I have no clue how they manage 3 years from now when they have to pay several people top dollar, but for now they are in a very good window where they are not losing their starters and can make a run at a SB. They have 4 players who will the highest paid at their position on rookie deals which is most teams dream scenario (Stanley, Humphrey, Lamar, Andrews).
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
Yes but that generally requires either injuries or a downgrade in talent. Nothing can really be done about the former and the latter just did not happen. Its happened to a LOT of teams in the NFL this offseason, some more than others, but it did not happen to the Ravens. I have no clue how they manage 3 years from now when they have to pay several people top dollar, but for now they are in a very good window where they are not losing their starters and can make a run at a SB. They have 4 players who will the highest paid at their position on rookie deals which is most teams dream scenario (Stanley, Humphrey, Lamar, Andrews).

DId any of you see the drop form 2006 to 2007 coming? To THAT extent?
 

Sandtown

Pro Bowler
I don’t think Clowney has any injuries we’d be worried about like Brockers’s ankle. I could be wrong though

So Clowney was suppose to under go surgery for his core muscle injury that he played with during the 2019 season. He was stated to receive that after The Seahawks either was elimated out if the playoffs or won/ loss in the super bowl. Overall Clowney does have some medical concerns which is one of the reasons why no team has pony up to pay him his asking price.
 

JAAM

Hall of Famer
So Clowney was suppose to under go surgery for his core muscle injury that he played with during the 2019 season. He was stated to receive that after The Seahawks either was elimated out if the playoffs or won/ loss in the super bowl. Overall Clowney does have some medical concerns which is one of the reasons why no team has pony up to pay him his asking price.
Gotcha. I guess we’ll play the waiting game. Thanks for the info
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
It's the overreaction and the "always wanting to be right" attitude. Sami went from "I like the Brockers signing" to "Brockers was a waste of money" in like a 12 hour period. Now that Brockers isn't signing here, he's back to his "the world is ending and the Ravens suck" attitude.

It sucks to lose Brockers and I don't think anyone is doubting that. It's not a world is falling situation like it's made out to be by certain people though.
I have no problem with us backing out of the deal after Brockers did fail his physical. Now, I wouldn't say it's a bad look, but LA signed him to a 31.5m deal, even though they have already allocated a significant amount of money to their top 10 players with literally no depth behind them. You are generally well-informed, what do you think?
 
Lord 2.5% win rate Jaylon Ferguson at the age of 25 this year not ready to take the mantle?

stupid pick

He had a horrendous 3 cone time, I didnt like the pick at all but its possible he could become a good run stopper, or a power end. The problem is we need more than what he can currently produce.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
He had a horrendous 3 cone time, I didnt like the pick at all but its possible he could become a good run stopper, or a power end. The problem is we need more than what he can currently produce.

The fact that eric said he was terrified that he wouldnt be there for our pick says a lot about his talent evaluation skills.
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
I have no problem with us backing out of the deal after Brockers did fail his physical. Now, I wouldn't say it's a bad look, but LA signed him to a 31.5m deal, even though they have already allocated a significant amount of money to their top 10 players with literally no depth behind them. You are generally well-informed, what do you think?

Keep in mind that no team is as informed about his health as the Rams. Although the yearly amount is higher, we’ll have to wait and see on the guarantees. If those are the same or better, it makes us look worse. If the guarantees are low, it is what it is in the current way teams have to operate.
 
The fact that eric said he was terrified that he wouldnt be there for our pick says a lot about his talent evaluation skills.

Looking back over the 2017 draft I dont see any standout starters picked after him that would have been better. Sure he was substandard starter but that should be expected of a third round rookie.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
Keep in mind that no team is as informed about his health as the Rams. Although the yearly amount is higher, we’ll have to wait and see on the guarantees. If those are the same or better, it makes us look worse. If the guarantees are low, it is what it is in the current way teams have to operate.

I refuse to believe that EDC will be happy with his FA work of just a 34 Campbell a bunch of our below-average backups and an ageing jimmy smith and that would be rectified with a past their prime DT/DE.

He's got to pull a special one out. He's good at getting picks. Players and talent evaluation though? I have my doubts.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
Looking back over the 2017 draft I dont see any standout starters picked after him that would have been better. Sure he was substandard starter but that should be expected of a third round rookie.

I liked Maxx Crosby

would have been pretty useful right about now!
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
What have we addressed? We've lost far more than what we've addressed

We added Campbell and lost far far more. We havent addressed WR, ILB, OLB, DE, IOL and also lost a good TE. A strength of our team.

This is a poor, poor offseason. Campbell isn't going to make that much of a difference IMO on his own. ( and that's what he will be, on his own)
And you did all of this without mentioning what we've actually "lost", which essentially amounts to a situational run stopper, a backup TE, and an All Pro Guard.

If you think those losses are enough to cripple a team's chances at a playoff run, be my guest. I don't, and I think you'd have a tough time making that argument yourself.

I also like the fact that you basically completely dodged my entire point, likely because you couldn't come up with a counter-argument. My argument wasn't that the Ravens are better from a Ravens roster standpoint. I thought my points were pretty clear already:
1. You would be hard pressed to find an offseason where you felt better about a Ravens roster in March than you do about it in December/January. You'll need to more succinctly convey why you think 2020 should be different.
2. That if the barometer is purely assessing teams at the end of March for talent, you'd be hard pressed to find more talented rosters in the AFC than ours as currently constructed at this moment. Because the teams we were directly competing with in the playoffs last season have, for the most part, had a far worse month of March than the Ravens have.

Many of those teams, like the Patriots, Texans, Chiefs, etc. are essentially "all-in" on the draft being their only place for upgrades at this point, and that's after they've lost bodies too.

As is always the case in the NFL, its not just about what we do. Its about what we do, in conjunction with what everybody else does.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
And you did all of this without mentioning what we've actually "lost", which essentially amounts to a situational run stopper, a backup TE, and an All Pro Guard.

If you think those losses are enough to cripple a team's chances at a playoff run, be my guest. I don't, and I think you'd have a tough time making that argument yourself.

I also like the fact that you basically completely dodged my entire point, likely because you couldn't come up with a counter-argument. My argument wasn't that the Ravens are better from a Ravens roster standpoint. I thought my points were pretty clear already:
1. You would be hard pressed to find an offseason where you felt better about a Ravens roster in March than you do about it in December/January. You'll need to more succinctly convey why you think 2020 should be different.
2. That if the barometer is purely assessing teams at the end of March for talent, you'd be hard pressed to find more talented rosters in the AFC than ours as currently constructed at this moment. Because the teams we were directly competing with in the playoffs last season have, for the most part, had a far worse month of March than the Ravens have.

Many of those teams, like the Patriots, Texans, Chiefs, etc. are essentially "all-in" on the draft being their only place for upgrades at this point, and that's after they've lost bodies too.

As is always the case in the NFL, its not just about what we do. Its about what we do, in conjunction with what everybody else does.


THe NFL is a cruel league when it comes to talent


Ask yourself this

How does our pass rush stack up against ANY of our division rivals?
Our ILB core?
Our IOL?

We are not winning any trenches battles with this current roster. Esp in the interior for the O line and the Edges of this D line.

This is a game won by %'s and quality matters.

Chuck clark is a good safety for instance, he'll never be a GREAT or top 5 saftey
Is Earl Thomas going to decline more?

That's one of our stronger points too.

The D line as constructed is in my opinon a mess.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
THe NFL is a cruel league when it comes to talent


Ask yourself this

How does our pass rush stack up against ANY of our division rivals?
Our ILB core?
Our IOL?

We are not winning any trenches battles with this current roster. Esp in the interior for the O line and the Edges of this D line.
How did our pass rush core or ILB core stack up against our division rivals last year?
And how do you reconcile that with the discrepancy in the W/L column of our division rivals last year?

Heck, we won a trenches battle on offense with Cleveland, who actually has a good front, in their building, like 4-5 months ago, with Bradley Bozeman at LG and a Backup Center.

You think losing Yanda is gonna translate into 6 more losses? LOL.
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
How did our pass rush core or ILB core stack up against our division rivals last year?
And how do you reconcile that with the discrepancy in the W/L column of our division rivals last year?

Heck, we won a trenches battle on offense with Cleveland, who actually has a good front, in their building, like 4-5 months ago, with Bradley Bozeman at LG and a Backup Center.

You think losing Yanda is gonna translate into 6 more losses? LOL.

It could. I also wonder if Ingram will regress. Justice hill showed nothing and running backs usually show a lot more as rookies than most.

We were not proactive this FA. You can't afford to be stagnent. Teams can go from being 14-2 to 8-8 VERY EASILY.
 
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