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The Good, The Bad and The Ugly - Titans Edition

I’m going to say it but I think we drafted the wrong Brown in 2019. Should’ve taken AJ Brown, he plays like a grown man and would’ve been great with Jackson.
Brown is quite good, but tbh I'm not sure if Baltimore knows how to develop wide receivers. After all, they have never managed to do it in their history. It might not be all on Hollywood.
 

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
So I think I'm still in the denial stage of grief where I am holding out for some miraculous late season tear and we rush into the playoffs like a well oiled machine. I'm really concerned though. I feel like we're experiencing something we haven't really seen before. Hollywood is upset, Lamar has called out the coaching, Lamar is saying he feels like the other teams want it more. It seems like we aren't "happy" and that's something that is so different from last year. I'd argue last year we were just so incredibly happy it's kinda crazy especially with the Mark Ingram big trus and the MVP stuff. Obviously that is a function of winning, but I think they all remember that and know/feel like we should be there and we just aren't. I don't know of there is something that could happen outside of sort of beating up on Pitt on Thanksgiving that could spark and rejuvenate the team.
 

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
Alright trying to look at the positives.

Most strikingly, we seemed to learn from the Pat's game and kept Henry in check despite being depleted on the DLine. I thought Wolfe in particular had a great game. I hope when Calais and BWill are back we are only further improved. Finally on defense, I think Malik Harrison and Yannick had good games. If we can continue to get something a little more out of them that should also be really good for us. Our defense is good when healthy and I can at least plausibly see a situation where it can continue to get better. The growth of Queen and Harrison, and Yannick getting completely up to speed.

On offense I was also somewhat encouraged. It was really awful when Mekari false started us with the early snap at the end of the game, but I "think" the center play this week was better than last. Something subtle was I didn't hear Ben Powers' name or really notice him much. So I guess that could have been worse. Someone let me know if you were paying closer attention to him. I am also really encouraged by the benching of Skura. Not that I thought the move was incredibly necessary, but rather I'm encouraged by the team at least trying to make changes that will help us. I think this was also clear in a severely diminished workload for Ingram and increased workload for Dobbins. That kid looks special. Finally, Dez Bryant looks good to me for his situation. He's been out for 3 years off of a major injury and has only been here a few short weeks. I think there is only one way for him and that's up. In contrast, Miles Boykin has 1 catch for 11 yards over the last 3 games. Hard to even call him a wr at this point. Finally, Proche had a nice little grab and hopefully we can incorporate him a little more too.

Hoping that we can get healthy and learn from this. I'm just so scared of a losing attitude entering the locker room. As always, let's go Ravens!
 

The Last Great Raven

Practice Squad
Banned
Well at least the Packers lost. An NFL team can lose even with a good throwing QB. It's the NFL. The Ravens need to play to their strengths. No one thought Lamar was gonna make the League forget Joe Montana or Tom Brady. Be Real. Lamar better get back to running like a winner or the Raven's won't win. Baltimore's gotta get a grip as a franchise. Dance with what brung ya. Lamar Legs or BUST!
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
The guy on the cover last year also won the Superbowl and was the MVP in the big game. It's not a thing at all.
Thanks. How does madden choose the cover guy? They pick a guy who had an MVP-like season the year before. MVP means he played at a very high level, got through the year relatively injury-free.
Most players regress the year after having a great season. That just how humans work and they're also more likely to get injured because it's a high risk game
 

Sandtown

Pro Bowler
In my opinion, we’ve seen the best of Lamar’s arm. Lamar fans need to temper their expectations until we get better coaching and a better offensive support cast (sounds like a broken record since the Flacco days). But look, if you can’t consistently hit deep throws and out routes and can only hit the middle of the field, you’re not going to last very long. Even WHEN people are open deep or outside the numbers, he sails it. Not cutting it.

Lamar Jackson is only 23 years old and this is really his second full season as a starting quarterback and you think that we have seen the best of his arm? That's interesting take because I don't think even Russell Wilson was as good as he is now in his third year in The NFL.
 

Sandtown

Pro Bowler
I'm disappointed we lost but it was quite impressive to see The Ravens defense contain Henry as long as they did. It's just that The Ravens offense failed to score touchdowns when they really needed to. Offense is really the only thing holding The Ravens back. I'm not really sure if firing Greg Roman is the answer but The Ravens need to find a way to be bit more creative in the passing game but at the same time until Lamar Jackson can make consistent throws outside the numbers defenses aren't going to change up on how to defend against this offense. Willie Snead and Mark Andrews can't do what they do best if that doesn't change.


I don't think Lamar Jackson can't make those throws but it just seems like he's more comfortable throwing short passes for some reason. I also was mad that The Ravens didn't take advantage of using Dez Bryant more especially in the redzone.
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
Lamar Jackson is only 23 years old and this is really his second full season as a starting quarterback and you think that we have seen the best of his arm? That's interesting take because I don't think even Russell Wilson was as good as he is now in his third year in The NFL.
Yea but russ was accurate, consistent and very smart. They had a run first offense for years but when it was time for him to do him, he got it done everytime. Lamar has real accuracy issues that probably cant be fixed, so we may have to just deal with it
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
It really is amazing how much impact he had. Part of the problem is also Skura at C and him not being close to what he was last year, but it can't be understated how much of a loss Yanda is. Heading into the draft, that would be my prime objective - beef up this trenches. OL needs an overhaul in the interior, minus Bozeman maybe.

Need to beef up the DL as well. We have a good one but they're all older and we haven't really gotten to see them play much together. Fix the trenches and I think we'll be good.

Hell, I'd be willing to make a serious trade for a bonafide WR as well.
So this is pretty much my entire season summary at this point...

As we came out of the offseason and into the season, the question we should have been asking ourselves is... why are we better? I have a long-standing theory that teams that stay the same get worse year-over-year, and by all accounts, the Ravens are proving that right.

Why were we better?

We added Calais Campbell and Derek Wolfe. That's it. Maybe you can say we upgraded at linebacker with Queen and Harrison, but honestly, after the last few weeks, when I cautioned people at the beginning of the season to not automatically assume that highly drafted rookies were better players, that never looks more true.

We did practically nothing to make the offense better. We lost an all-World Guard, we added some fringe roster players on the Oline, and we added a RB. We basically decided our offense was good enough, and we just trotted the same players out there.

We made no upgrades in the secondary. We made no upgrades at the pass rush, save for a mid-season trade for Yannick.

This team made no material additions to its roster to be better than last year. And we're seeing that now.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
I already said and I'll say it again if the players execute the Head coach gets the kudos for having his team prepared. Harbaugh's teams have notoriously been unprepared.

The Titans have fought hard all year, coming from behind multiple times against top competition. If it wasn't for their kicking woes they could be 10-1. That says alot about Vrabel as a coach and I wont be surprised if that win the SB.

Oh and cmon guys grow up the madden curse???please.
OK, but "coming from behind multiple times" is a reflection of being behind to begin with. That, at least somewhat, is a reflection of coaching, as well.

Playing better earlier in games would seem to be the route to go there.

Remember, this is the same Titans team that actually did blow a 13 point 4th quarter lead against Jacksonville (at home), blew not one, but two, 14 point leads against Houston (at home), and got blown out on the road by Cincinnati.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Here's my takeaways from yesterday:
1. Ingram should be a gameday inactive going forward.
2. Patrick Queen, for the second week in a row, looks badly lost on run defense. Like if you watch the tape, he's not even hitting gaps. He's running away from them. There's plays where he's in a position to fill the gap where the back is headed, and he just closes down into the wash with like a half dozen other guys and almost seems to be pretending like he's being blocked.
Guy has a LOT of development to do in regards to gap discipline and being an effective run stopper. If he can't do that, I don't see why he should be out there so much. Romo called him out twice specifically.
Like Derek Wolfe got crapped on for missing the OT tackle that sealed the win, but he was one of the best D players on the field yesterday. I'm not criticizing him for anything. He was critical in our ability to stop Henry for most of the game. He did his job. Others did not.
3. I believe on these boards, last year, I got into a back and forth whether a handful of users who thought Marcus Peters was a better overall Corner than Marlon Humphrey. Marlon Humphrey was not very good yesterday, and he was still significantly better than Peters, who hasn't been very effective all year long.
Peters plays super soft. He gets all the credit when he plays "with instinct" and jumps routes and make plays. At least 1-2 plays every single game, the downside of those instincts are showing. He's jumping routes and getting faked out of his shoes when he's wrong, he's playing much softer on the LOS than he used to, and while Marlon missed some big tackles yesterday, Peters won't ever miss a tackle because he's likely never going to be involved in one. If he can't push you out of bounds, he's just going to wait for the Safeties to clean up.
Go watch the tape. You're going to see a player that teams are targeting with double moves, out routes, etc., and they're winning against him frequently.
4. Tackling was terrible yesterday. Needs to be fixed ASAP.
5. I read something on Lamar on Twitter, and I can't remember who said it, but it was spot on.
He's not playing badly... he's just leaving a LOT of plays on the field. He missed some pretty crucial throws yesterday. He's late and inaccurate with the throw to Andrews in the endzone. He's late, and subsequently, overthrows Brown on the deep ball down the middle.
The Duvernay interception is a combination of bad performance on both their ends, but the ball placement of that throw isn't great either.

He's missing NFL throws he needs to make.
 

Charm City

Pro Bowler
We just don't look fast at all. Which is surprising given all the supposed speed we have on this team. Why are we constantly motioning Ricard and the TEs from the line to the backfield and vice versa, but don't motion duvernay or brown across presnap and do at least a fake jet sweep a few times a quarter. Teams are overloading one side of the line when they see the mesh so having a brown or duvernay motion against that will widen the front the defense has to protect
 

drjohnnyfever

Pro Bowler
Coming from someone who missed a key throw to Andrews that could've changed the complexion of the game, I don't wanna hear it.....



"It's on me." is so cliche. The Pitt game was going to haunt us on it's own with our terrible QB play in the form of INT's, but NE and Tenn are the nails in our coffin and the sad part is that all these L's were given away on turnovers. We had each game won.

There is nothing more maddening than injuries and not being able to compete as well as a result, but this team has played well despite injuries and has still managed to give away 3 crucial games that we couldn't close out. To me, that's more about character and a will to win than anything else. Starting the game yesterday with a fight about turf and then giving them the field in the 4th and overtime is shameful. We aren't going anywhere at this rate.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
"It's on me." is so cliche. The Pitt game was going to haunt us on it's own with our terrible QB play in the form of INT's, but NE and Tenn are the nails in our coffin and the sad part is that all these L's were given away on turnovers. We had each game won.

There is nothing more maddening than injuries and not being able to compete as well as a result, but this team has played well despite injuries and has still managed to give away 3 crucial games that we couldn't close out. To me, that's more about character and a will to win than anything else. Starting the game yesterday with a fight about turf and then giving them the field in the 4th and overtime is shameful. We aren't going anywhere at this rate.
Well, the turnover thing is not accurate at all. We lost to Pittsburgh because of turnovers.

We definitely didn't lose the NE game because of turnovers. The interception in that game merely took us out of MAYBE a FG (which I think would have been missed anyway), and said FG would have only tied the game at halftime. We were already losing in the 2nd quarter prior to any turnovers, and that turnover didn't lead to any points for NE. We lost because we got pushed around.

I also don't think the INT was the difference in the Titans game either. We weren't close to scoring position on that drive at that time, and if we didn't get into scoring territory, that INT acts no differently than a punt. Like you can maybe make the argument that it sucked some momentum out, but realistically, I think its hard to argue we had much momentum at that point anyway.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
We just don't look fast at all. Which is surprising given all the supposed speed we have on this team. Why are we constantly motioning Ricard and the TEs from the line to the backfield and vice versa, but don't motion duvernay or brown across presnap and do at least a fake jet sweep a few times a quarter. Teams are overloading one side of the line when they see the mesh so having a brown or duvernay motion against that will widen the front the defense has to protect
So while I agree, my problem is that motion like this works when your receivers can run full route-trees and are threats from anywhere on the field. Our guys are not.

Hollywood Brown is really not that difficult to defend, as teams are figuring out. Lamar won't throw to the perimeter unless he's scrambling that way, so if you have the middle of the field flooded and can cover deep, you're fine long term.

The only thing that matters with Lamar, to me, is that he needs to be more accurate with ball placement, and he needs to spend every single second of January (whenever we lose) through July doing nothing but throwing the ball outside the numbers. He shouldn't even practice having a receiver run any other route combination other than him throwing outside the sticks.

Like I'm not trading Lamar for Flacco obviously, but there are a LOT of throws that Joe Flacco can still make that Lamar can't, won't, or simply chooses not to. The Derrick Mason route tree was a thing of beauty, because he could just use the boundary to his advantage and create space via actual route combinations.

I would love, love, love, love to see Lamar, on multiple instances in a game, stand in the pocket, step up, and throw a 15 yard out or curl to the sidelines. I'm not even sure I care if it gets picked off. I just want to physically see him do it.

To be honest... if I were an NFL team, I'd never play man against the Ravens. I'd use a Cover 1 zone scheme, and just give up everything outside the numbers. Flood the middle of the field, keep one safety deep for the 2-3 times we go deep a game, and pack it in against the run.

I'd feel extremely confident in my ability to slow down this offense with using, what would basically be, an extremely vanilla, base-level defense.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
One other thing I'll say from the "sky is falling" group...

It's not. We'll be 6-5 and still be heavy favorites to make the playoffs. We've all known for about two months now that December sets up extremely favorable for us. No reason, even playing the way we are, that we can't go 4-1 or even 5-0 down the stretch. We'll be favored in every game, the best QBs you'll see are the likes of Baker Mayfield and Daniel Jones, and outside of maybe Cleveland, I'm not threatened by any of the running games that I see in December.

The reality is that this is an average to slightly above average football team that, like all of the AFC North, has a very favorable schedule this year. Like Cleveland may be two games ahead of us after this coming weekend, but they still have to play us again. They still have to play Tennessee on the road, and they still have to play Pittsburgh again.

Tennessee still has road games against Indy and GB, and play Cleveland. They've shown to be a highly inconsistent team as well.

Miami's last four games are against KC, Patriots, Raiders, and Bills.

Like I'll say this... if we don't make the playoffs, I'm not sure that I'll be looking at Tennessee or even Pittsburgh as the reason why. Games we were leading and should have won, yes, but also tough games on our schedule that we know can go either way. If we don't make the playoffs, it'll be because we crapped the bed at home against a below average Patriots team, AND, it'll likely be because we lost a game in December we shouldn't have. Like we go and lose to a Cowboys or Giants team, then yes, I'll throw in the towel.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
When JH threw that challenge we were 3rd and 1. That's 2 chances at a first down with what I've been told is a first class running game. Why would you argue a foot and losing a TO when you can keep the continuity going and get it on your own after getting two previous 1st downs in that same drive? That's stupid. Get the first down by utilizing your running game. John screwed that up. Which is nothing new - he consistently challenges ball spotting which is the least overturned call in challenges. I guess he still hasn't gotten the memo.


I think you're talking about a later play...

but clearly we didnt get the 1st down going for it either because we false started so i think you have way too much confidence in this offensive line to convert
 
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