The 2021 Offseason Thread

One thing that hasn't been talked about yet in this thread is Lamar's rushing attempts. Which is also important when it comes to the extension some of you have been talking about. So far ('18-'20): 147, 167 and 159 attempts. This isn't sustainable. Didn't even Bisciotti say they plan to reduce this number each year. 8 rushes less isn't going to change much. So you're really ready to give him a 5 year deal - in total 7 years if you add the remaining years of his rookie contract - well then it might get ugly like Goff's and Wentz's situation. I know the upside if EDC decides to get a deal done this year. If I was in charge, I'd want to see this offense when he rushes 70-90 times a season. Otherwise I'd like to see a 3 year extension.

Simba said:

It all sounds great in theory but we have some big contracts already signed and some more big contracts coming up. To get a WR to come here, you're going to have to outbid AND convince them even though their stats are going to take a dip. Just not sure a FA acquisition is feasible. Would love any of those guys but money talks and we don't have a bunch.

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yeah if we're looking at free agency WRs i think we're looking at guys towards the end of their careers looking for championships and not worrying about stats

maybe someone like marvin jones

i just think lots of the other guys are gonna either cost too much or not wanna come here because it'll potentially statistically tank their value - the only way we get a high quality guy is if they actively want to come here

we're hamstrung by our offence in that sense

we have to draft guys basically every year at this point i think because its not a position we'll be able to solve in free agency

Simba said:

It all sounds great in theory but we have some big contracts already signed and some more big contracts coming up. To get a WR to come here, you're going to have to outbid AND convince them even though their stats are going to take a dip. Just not sure a FA acquisition is feasible. Would love any of those guys but money talks and we don't have a bunch.

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I think it depends on the player. It seems Allen is at least interested in the Ravens, but then again I think he really just wants to make money too lol. I don't know how hard of a sell it is to come here or not, honestly. It could be hard & then again it may not be either.

rossihunter2 said:

yeah if we're looking at free agency WRs i think we're looking at guys towards the end of their careers looking for championships and not worrying about stats

maybe someone like marvin jones

i just think lots of the other guys are gonna either cost too much or not wanna come here because it'll potentially statistically tank their value - the only way we get a high quality guy is if they actively want to come here

we're hamstrung by our offence in that sense

we have to draft guys basically every year at this point i think because its not a position we'll be able to solve in free agency

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I think Jones would be a nice fit here TBH.

Grim said:

I think Jones would be a nice fit here TBH.

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Jones would be a very good fit here. Been talking about him with @lost since mid season prior to the trade deadline. We also should continue using draft resources as well. We need to continue swinging and hopefully there will be more hits like Hollywood and lets hope Duvernay pans out.

Simba said:

It all sounds great in theory but we have some big contracts already signed and some more big contracts coming up. To get a WR to come here, you're going to have to outbid AND convince them even though their stats are going to take a dip. Just not sure a FA acquisition is feasible. Would love any of those guys but money talks and we don't have a bunch.

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I don't know the details of Brandon Williams contract but could he be a cap causality along with the obvious Mark Ingram? You can't tell me we don't have enough cap to get one WR we seem to be able to develop any other position I don't trust drafting someone. I mean maybe Devin takes a year 2 step but I'm not betting my money on it We need to invest in the offense idk how but we have. But I guess we do have to pay atleast one or two pass rushers which could also hinder our cap situation

I just feel like it's a need period we gotta stop putting a bandaid on the position. Not that we need Michael Thomas or Julio as awesome as that would be but we need better than Dez and Willie we need an actual threat

RavensFan419 said:

I don't know the details of Brandon Williams contract but could he be a cap causality along with the obvious Mark Ingram? You can't tell me we don't have enough cap to get one WR we seem to be able to develop any other position I don't trust drafting someone. I mean maybe Devin takes a year 2 step but I'm not betting my money on it We need to invest in the offense idk how but we have. But I guess we do have to pay atleast one or two pass rushers which could also hinder our cap situation

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yes, he would save 7.5m if we cut him. The did a small restructure at some point last season to create some space. His cap hit is 14.424m and his dead cap is 6.924m.

Very possible Brandon Williams played his last snap as a Raven, unless he takes a substantial pay cut.

cdp said:

One thing that hasn't been talked about yet in this thread is Lamar's rushing attempts. Which is also important when it comes to the extension some of you have been talking about. So far ('18-'20): 147, 167 and 159 attempts. This isn't sustainable. Didn't even Bisciotti say they plan to reduce this number each year. 8 rushes less isn't going to change much. So you're really ready to give him a 5 year deal - in total 7 years if you add the remaining years of his rookie contract - well then it might get ugly like Goff's and Wentz's situation. I know the upside if EDC decides to get a deal done this year. If I was in charge, I'd want to see this offense when he rushes 70-90 times a season. Otherwise I'd like to see a 3 year extension.

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Great thought but I’d honestly be more concerned if Lamar had nagging issues related to rushing. Only time he’s ever been seriously injured and forced to miss time was Saturday and we all know what happened. I’m of the opinion that we need to dial back the designed runs. If he sees a lane, let Lamar be Lamar and let him do his thing. I think switching to a more balanced offense where he’s throwing more should relieve some stress surrounding his cap hit. Can definitely see your concern though, but much to the chagrin of certain pundits, I truly think he’d thrive as a prolific passer with more weapons and better passing concepts

Marvin Jones, Hollywood, Boykin (who I’ve seen enough of), Duvernay and Proche is still a laughable group. You guys can talk about cap space all you want, but if EDC wants someone, he’ll get him, if that means Robinson or anyone else that’s a true #1. I don’t think a trade is feasible unless we get a 3rd as a comp from either Judon or Yannick. Stop throwing darts at the draft and pick up someone who’s already established.

RavensMania said:

yes, he would save 7.5m if we cut him. The did a small restructure at some point last season to create some space. His cap hit is 14.424m and his dead cap is 6.924m.

Very possible Brandon Williams played his last snap as a Raven, unless he takes a substantial pay cut.

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No need for Brandon anymore especially with that savings and with Madboogie on deck

JAAM said:

Great thought but I’d honestly be more concerned if Lamar had nagging issues related to rushing. Only time he’s ever been seriously injured and forced to miss time was Saturday and we all know what happened. I’m of the opinion that we need to dial back the designed runs. If he sees a lane, let Lamar be Lamar and let him do his thing. I think switching to a more balanced offense where he’s throwing more should relieve some stress surrounding his cap hit. Can definitely see your concern though, but much to the chagrin of certain pundits, I truly think he’d thrive as a prolific passer with more weapons and better passing concepts

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i will say this - and i dont have the statistics so this is purely just a guess (but i feel like it's right)

but my guess would be that if you took scrambles (i.e. called passes that turn into runs) from those stats that you'd see lamar's designed runs in 2020 be lower than in previous years - i think the nature of the OL and the passing offence meant that scrambles occurred far more frequently than in 2019

but tbf that's just a guess

and you're 100% right that so far lamar's been far more in danger taking hits in the pocket than he has on runs and that culminated in the concussion saturday

but would be interested if someone actually has the numbers of designed runs vs scrambles broken down

JAAM said:

No need for Brandon anymore especially with that savings and with Madboogie on deck

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didnt he just take a paycut on a restructure to keep him around in 2021? or am i misremembering...

JAAM said:

Marvin Jones, Hollywood, Boykin (who I’ve seen enough of), Duvernay and Proche is still a laughable group. You guys can talk about cap space all you want, but if EDC wants someone, he’ll get him, if that means Robinson or anyone else that’s a true #1. I don’t think a trade is feasible unless we get a 3rd as a comp from either Judon or Yannick. Stop throwing darts at the draft and pick up someone who’s already established.

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i think we have to understand though that the group is going to stay laughable unless we add multiple pieces

Allen Robinson, Hollywood and a bunch of also rans is also not a great group...

and the best way to add multiple pieces is to keep throwing capital at the position in the draft and seeing what you come up with

especially as it feels like there are tons of talented WRs coming out of college every year at the moment - 2nd round in particular in recent years has been the sweet spot for WRs

Sizzle said:

So then what?? We've proven time and time again that we can't develop receivers, or use them properly. What, draft two receivers who never see the field, or see the field and don't produce because they aren't being used properly. Hard pass. Bring someone in who is actually talented and developed.

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You pretty much have to pull a trade off in that case, and we know that isn't gonna be cheap either. That's giving high picks and a big contract essentially. I'm not against it, but I don't think you're going to able to pull a guy in FA. Just not enough to offer from a production and money standpoint.

rossihunter2 said:

didnt he just take a paycut on a restructure to keep him around in 2021? or am i misremembering...

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Brandon Williams was always under contract for the 2021 season. He just had very little guaranteed money as we could have cut him for over 10m savings, if I remember correctly. Now due to needing some cap space we restructured his salary to give us some breathing room and allow for some moves, while still allowing us to cut him in the offseason. He signed a 5 yr / 52m contract back in 2017

rossihunter2 said:

i think we have to understand though that the group is going to stay laughable unless we add multiple pieces

Allen Robinson, Hollywood and a bunch of also rans is also not a great group...

and the best way to add multiple pieces is to keep throwing capital at the position in the draft and seeing what you come up with

especially as it feels like there are tons of talented WRs coming out of college every year at the moment - 2nd round in particular in recent years has been the sweet spot for WRs

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and it this situation without fully evaluating the draft, I'd say we should trade out of the first round into the top of the 2nd while also receiving another 3rd rounder.

rossihunter2 said:

didnt he just take a paycut on a restructure to keep him around in 2021? or am i misremembering...

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I don’t think so, but I could be wrong...

rossihunter2 said:

i think we have to understand though that the group is going to stay laughable unless we add multiple pieces

Allen Robinson, Hollywood and a bunch of also rans is also not a great group...

and the best way to add multiple pieces is to keep throwing capital at the position in the draft and seeing what you come up with

especially as it feels like there are tons of talented WRs coming out of college every year at the moment - 2nd round in particular in recent years has been the sweet spot for WRs

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Okay, that’s fair, but the only way I’d feel comfortable drafting a WR this year is in the first two rounds. Some rumblings that this WR class could be better than last years and we need to take advantage of it instead of waiting till the third to draft a project track star like we did Duv. Signing Robinson is already a huge deal (literally and figuratively), so a tier 2 WR free agent like Jones or Samuel could be hard to pull off. I’m just ready to give our guy some legit weapons outside of Mark and Hollywood

JAAM said:

Okay, that’s fair, but the only way I’d feel comfortable drafting a WR this year is in the first two rounds. Some rumblings that this WR class could be better than last years and we need to take advantage of it instead of waiting till the third to draft a project track star like we did Duv. Signing Robinson is already a huge deal (literally and figuratively), so a tier 2 WR free agent like Jones or Samuel could be hard to pull off. I’m just ready to give our guy some legit weapons outside of Mark and Hollywood

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im just starting on the WR class - I think the top 2 Bama guys are probably both better prospects than everyone in the 2020 class, 2020 class looks to me to have more 1st round talents at WR though so far - i had 6 WRs in the top 25 last year (and tbf 6 guys did go in the top 25 last year - albeit i had Mims in there and the Eagles actually drafted Reagor)

hard to see 6 guys being graded that highly this year but never say never

havent got to anywhere near enough guys yet to make any determinations about the depth of the class - the last time we had a class even vaguely similar in depth to 2020 was 2014 so in probability terms its unlikely to be quite as deep but ive already come across a number of guys i like a lot even outside of the the 2 Bama guys

FWIW there will be some who absolutely love Ja'marr Chase and have him above the Bama guys - i personally do not see it at all (really wish he'd played in 2020 to see if he could ease some of the concerns I have based on his 2019 film but not gonna begrudge a guy sitting out during a pandemic)