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Signings, Cuts, Trades

rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Grim said:
Agreed, that's why I think if we re-sign 2 of 3 then it will be Bowser & Ngakoue. Ngakoue is interesting because he didn't have a great year & lost snaps but also came in late too. He could sign a one-year deal or we may give him a longer contract too, just depends. It would be strange to break the bank for him when he didn't do a ton, but maybe it's because we know he came in late to our defense. Kinda risky either way you slice it but that's the hand we got. I would go for Ngakoue before Judon due to age alone--I think Judon has a major red flag there and I like him but he has boneheaded plays seemingly every year--like Jernigan-lite.

Bowser seems like a no brainer, but McPhee & Ward are great rotational pieces that should remain that. I think expecting either to be every down players is a mistake, hence why I agree that we need to keep 2 of 3 with Ferguson.
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idk that you should buy into the lower snap counts too much - i think it's a combination of a few things - when he first came in bowser's snaps disappeared and as we brought bowser back in it brought everyone on the EDGE's snaps down

the other is that Ngakoue didnt play a lot of snaps vs the run (where that was possible) so didnt play a huge amount vs the titans - and i think the bills went hurry up a lot when they caught us with guys like BWill on the field so i think that kept him off the field vs the bills

and of course both of these games were just after he missed the bengals game because of injury

i think it's clear to me that if all things were equal then we'd be retaining Bowser and Judon - bowser feels like the no-brainer based on likely price and role

but in terms of ngakoue vs judon with context, judon's obviously older and might be more expensive to retain too which leans in ngakoue's favour albeit ngakoue has the name-brand

with judon i think too much is made out of 'bone-headed' - i think 2018 he developed that reputation and then 2019 and 2020 were confirmation bias - he has 1 or 2 plays a season maybe like that and iirc on of the notable ones this year was an absolutely awful call by the refs
 
Q

QuothTheRaven

Veteran
I don't think Judon's coming back. We couldn't get a deal done last year so it seems unlikely we'll be able to make him an offer he likes with this year's restrictions.
 
Grim

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
idk that you should buy into the lower snap counts too much - i think it's a combination of a few things - when he first came in bowser's snaps disappeared and as we brought bowser back in it brought everyone on the EDGE's snaps down

the other is that Ngakoue didnt play a lot of snaps vs the run (where that was possible) so didnt play a huge amount vs the titans - and i think the bills went hurry up a lot when they caught us with guys like BWill on the field so i think that kept him off the field vs the bills

and of course both of these games were just after he missed the bengals game because of injury

i think it's clear to me that if all things were equal then we'd be retaining Bowser and Judon - bowser feels like the no-brainer based on likely price and role

but in terms of ngakoue vs judon with context, judon's obviously older and might be more expensive to retain too which leans in ngakoue's favour albeit ngakoue has the name-brand

with judon i think too much is made out of 'bone-headed' - i think 2018 he developed that reputation and then 2019 and 2020 were confirmation bias - he has 1 or 2 plays a season maybe like that and iirc on of the notable ones this year was an absolutely awful call by the refs
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I think what you say is fair criticism/feedback on what I said. I forgot that he missed an entire game, so good point & thanks for reminding me. I do wonder regarding the run because Ngakoue hasn't historically been good there, but I still think he is the choice between Judon & him. I think they would be about the same "price" but could see either go for more than the other if the right team wanted them. As for the bone-headed plays, perhaps that's true but I know he had some this year and while some were bad calls, others were just "what were you thinking" as well.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
RavensMania said:
Brandon Williams saves 7.5m in cap space if we were to cut him.
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Yes. I just don't see it. Ravens value him pretty highly, and they restructured his deal this past year to make it more likely he comes back this year. Its possible they move on, but I think he plays it out and then departs after 2021.

McFarland mentioned Peters as a "surprise" cut candidate, but I don't see it. There's no real cap savings unless he's a post-June 1 cut. More likely he falls in-line with some others guys and does a restructure or an extension.

You've got some guys like Stanley ($7.5M) and Peters ($11.4M) who have large base salaries. Those could be converted into bonuses and pro-rated to create some cap savings. Normally you'd look at guys like Williams or Campbell who have decent sized base salaries and try to do something there, except neither is under contract for 2022 and I'd be shocked if either returned beyond 2021 (unless its for like dirt cheap prices), so there's not much to be done there.

Realistically, with restructures, there's probably another $10-12M in space you could create. But again, that just puts us in like the $20-25M range.
 
ndub

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
Versatile, powerful, effective... makes game-winning plays and is a locker room leader

my question to you... what makes you think he's not good?
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Maybe the fact that he disappears against good teams and seemingly gets one dumbass penalty every other game?
 
RL52TheGreatest

RL52TheGreatest

Ravens Ring of Honor
Sizzle said:
Maybe the fact that he disappears against good teams and seemingly gets one [profanity deleted] penalty every other game?
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Judon who caused a Josh Allen fumble against the Bills (unfortunately, it bounced right back to one of their players)? Also, he didn't take as many dumb penalties this year and, at least, one of those was a shit call.

I think the main reason Judon seemingly "disappears" from certain games is because we ask him to do A LOT of different things on our defense. He's not always pinning his ears back to rush the passer because we'll have him drop back in coverage or he'll be defending the run and this doesn't always reflect on the stat sheet.

Judon has never been a favorite player of mine, but to say he's not good is just ignoring everything he's been asked to do on the defense.
 
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BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
Versatile, powerful, effective... makes game-winning plays and is a locker room leader

my question to you... what makes you think he's not good?
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Getting paid nearly 17 million a year will finishing T41st in sacks. Everyone brings up Qb hits and pressures but even those numbers are not overly impressive.

I’d love to keep Judon but the Ravens would be fools to invest in him again at that number. Judon has no reason to take a pay cut as some team will over pay so it’s highly unlikely he is back


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D

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
we really had yannick, campbell, judon and mcphee yet we couldnt generate any pressure at all on allen.. im all for signing important guys but we will not see any difference if we dnt make changes.
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

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Deebo813 said:
we really had yannick, campbell, judon and mcphee yet we couldnt generate any pressure at all on allen.. im all for signing important guys but we will not see any difference if we dnt make changes.
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Yannicks lack of impact was down right surprising and worrisome. Changing teams and system is a big challenge but talent alone still should have put him in the mix for one our most impactful defenders.

The rest failing to generate sustained pressure doesn’t surprise me at all. Judon is simply a slightly above average rusher that the Ravens were forced to franchise due to lack of options. Campbell/ McPhee are 34 and 32 and the expectations were way to high to begin with. I think both did well considering, but clearly have hit their ceiling.

Wolfe was better than all three


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J

Justdewinit20

Veteran
its 2021 and somehow we have the most expensive defense in the league and the second cheapest offense in the league. I agree with Harbaugh that offensive line is a major priority this offseason. If we want to run the ball like we need good to elite interior o line play. I remember stating this in the offseason, but people thought Yanda was going to be easily replaced. I wouldn't be surprised if we double dip on the interior like we did in 2007.
 
J

Justdewinit20

Veteran
As for receiver remember we were in on the Hopkins trade and tried to trade for Thielen mid season. I'm glad at least DeCosta is aware that receiver is a need, unlike Ozzie who thought we never needed receivers. Sure our cap space this season isn't the highest but if COVID-19 is over by the seasons start, I'd expect a salary cap jump of 30 million in the 2022 season. Combine the expiring contracts of Campbell and Williams, we should have more than enough to sign whoever we want this offseason.
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

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Justdewinit20 said:
As for receiver remember we were in on the Hopkins trade and tried to trade for Thielen mid season. I'm glad at least DeCosta is aware that receiver is a need, unlike Ozzie who thought we never needed receivers. Sure our cap space this season isn't the highest but if COVID-19 is over by the seasons start, I'd expect a salary cap jump of 30 million in the 2022 season. Combine the expiring contracts of Campbell and Williams, we should have more than enough to sign whoever we want this offseason.
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As tough as the playoff loss was the positive out of all this is we got DeCosta. The guy isn’t a moron he sees all the holes the team has and understands the window for success. I have full confidence he will work some magic to get some good players in.

I think bringing in a new offensive coordinator will help his case convincing offensive talents to come to Baltimore. Otherwise it’s up to the almighty dollar to convince guys and that’s something we lack


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rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Justdewinit20 said:
As for receiver remember we were in on the Hopkins trade and tried to trade for Thielen mid season. I'm glad at least DeCosta is aware that receiver is a need, unlike Ozzie who thought we never needed receivers. Sure our cap space this season isn't the highest but if COVID-19 is over by the seasons start, I'd expect a salary cap jump of 30 million in the 2022 season. Combine the expiring contracts of Campbell and Williams, we should have more than enough to sign whoever we want this offseason.
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You mean... more than enough to sign whoever we want in 2022, not in 2021. If we're signing players in 2021 with the expectation of a rising salary cap in 2022, then those players will have to be damn near playing for close to the league minimum in 2021.

Also, that $30M increase will basically be spent on one player... Lamar. His cap hit for 2021 is like $3M right now. Any extension will be well north of $30-35M a year. Even if you backload some, if you sign him to an extension this offseason, his 2022 cap hit will be well in excess of $20M, at least. Could very easily be in the $25-30M range.

Keep in mind also that by the time you get to 2022, Orlando Brown isn't under contract any longer, and neither is Mark Andrews. So yeah, we've got some older players that will roll off, but we've also got some studs rolling off that we may want to keep.

It'll cost, at a minimum, $55-60M a year, on average, just to retain Lamar, Orlando, and Andrews. And we won't be retaining all three.
 
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