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The 2021 Offseason Thread

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Still don't get why we didn't use him more but honestly I think most of The Ravens receivers weren't used to their strengths consistently.

we still dont let hollywood run comebacks nearly as often as i want - i think it's possibly his best route - yes it's an outside throw but hollywood creates so much space on that route that lamar's got margin for error there

hollywood has been cooking defender's deep all year and we didn't make enough use of that to get him on many underneath routes that use a vertical stem

likewise duvernay is great with the ball in space - we seemed to completely forget about him beyond the occasional end-around - i wanna see us throw screens to him, he's great on those RPO slants and can potentially house them... especially while he's not a good route runner

proche hardly played but i like his work in the short and intermediate range - think he shows some nice route nuances even though it's still early in his career

not sure what boykin's good at right now tbh
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
1st game he had 5 catches mostly on screens and then for some reason poof.....gone. Never seen it again.

that was an adjustment iirc - DBs were standing way off him giving him a ton of cushion so either roman adjusted or he gave lamar an audible adjustment option to that if the DBs stayed off where the adjustment was to just throw the quick screen or quick out in that cushion

dont think that was the plan going into the game - think it was a half-time adjustment
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
that was an adjustment iirc - DBs were standing way off him giving him a ton of cushion so either roman adjusted or he gave lamar an audible adjustment option to that if the DBs stayed off where the adjustment was to just throw the quick screen or quick out in that cushion

dont think that was the plan going into the game - think it was a half-time adjustment

Possible and It's also possible that other teams scouted it and took away that option. Just seemed weird I seen it converted several times in one game and I don't recall seeing it ever since.
 
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cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
we still dont let hollywood run comebacks nearly as often as i want - i think it's possibly his best route - yes it's an outside throw but hollywood creates so much space on that route that lamar's got margin for error there

hollywood has been cooking defender's deep all year and we didn't make enough use of that to get him on many underneath routes that use a vertical stem

likewise duvernay is great with the ball in space - we seemed to completely forget about him beyond the occasional end-around - i wanna see us throw screens to him, he's great on those RPO slants and can potentially house them... especially while he's not a good route runner

proche hardly played but i like his work in the short and intermediate range - think he shows some nice route nuances even though it's still early in his career

not sure what boykin's good at right now tbh
Hollywood would absolutely be beasting and feasting on screens. DBs on average line up 7.5 yard away from Hollywood because they're that scared - 2nd highest value in the league.
Boykin is a project at this point.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Hollywood would absolutely be beasting and feasting on screens. DBs on average line up 7.5 yard away from Hollywood because they're that scared - 2nd highest value in the league.
Boykin is a project at this point.

i dont really mind what the "skillset" is of any receiver we bring in at the moment but we 100% need someone else other than hollywood who can win on their own and not rely on scheme or manufactured touches to get open - free agency will be expensive which is why i normally shy away from going that route - but im 22 prospects into the WR draft class and there's a ton of smaller guys and a ton of speed but not much size - I don't mind drafting smaller guys but there is some risk in having a WR corps led by smaller guys because it puts more pressure on mark andrews to be that guy in contested situations and he's often double or even triple covered in some of those situations and obviously it means a smaller catch radius for lamar - but it probably also means larger separation windows which helps too...

ultimately i just want to add talent to this corps and we'll work with whatever their skillset is - i know harbs mentioned an anquan boldin type but idk
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
i dont really mind what the "skillset" is of any receiver we bring in at the moment but we 100% need someone else other than hollywood who can win on their own and not rely on scheme or manufactured touches to get open - free agency will be expensive which is why i normally shy away from going that route - but im 22 prospects into the WR draft class and there's a ton of smaller guys and a ton of speed but not much size - I don't mind drafting smaller guys but there is some risk in having a WR corps led by smaller guys because it puts more pressure on mark andrews to be that guy in contested situations and he's often double or even triple covered in some of those situations and obviously it means a smaller catch radius for lamar - but it probably also means larger separation windows which helps too...

ultimately i just want to add talent to this corps and we'll work with whatever their skillset is - i know harbs mentioned an anquan boldin type but idk
Boykin at this point has not a great feel for the game. Keeps running vs. zone or doesn't recognize coverage and keeps on running blindly and Lamar can't throw to him because of that. I know Boykin weighs less than what Waller did before he transitioned to TE. But TE might be his niche.

I'm on the same train as deebo when it comes to new wrs. Just draft guys who run good routes and are natural catchers. Idc if they're not the best athlete or don't test well in general. With the limited amount of cap space I feel like we're better off re-signing one or two of our edge guys than anything else.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Boykin at this point has not a great feel for the game. Keeps running vs. zone or doesn't recognize coverage and keeps on running blindly and Lamar can't throw to him because of that. I know Boykin weighs less than what Waller did before he transitioned to TE. But TE might be his niche.

I'm on the same train as deebo when it comes to new wrs. Just draft guys who run good routes and are natural catchers. Idc if they're not the best athlete or don't test well in general. With the limited amount of cap space I feel like we're better off re-signing one or two of our edge guys than anything else.

i agree with that - i want guys who have the ability to separate well consistently and that's most likely either through burst/change of direction skills or route running nuance (or preferably both)

i think the problem with boykin (and it would also be a problem with him converting to TE too) is that he's a big athletic guy but he doesn't play "big" he doesn't use his body or hands to separate late in the route, he's not dominant at the catch point either and he's not someone we'd expect to get YAC - so what's the use in having that frame if you don't use it lol...
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
i agree with that - i want guys who have the ability to separate well consistently and that's most likely either through burst/change of direction skills or route running nuance (or preferably both)

i think the problem with boykin (and it would also be a problem with him converting to TE too) is that he's a big athletic guy but he doesn't play "big" he doesn't use his body or hands to separate late in the route, he's not dominant at the catch point either and he's not someone we'd expect to get YAC - so what's the use in having that frame if you don't use it lol...
Serious question but did Waller? It’s been so long I forgot.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Don’t worry. With how all these free agent WR contracts get inflated, I guarantee the Ravens can’t afford him.
It'll be an interesting year. I've heard multiple beat writers and analysts who are more privy to the salary cap and how teams operate than the "national pundits" suggest its going to be a very rough year for people hitting FA. I understand there are no shortage of teams with a lot of money to spend, but seeing a compressed market this offseason won't surprise me at all.

I think the "middle class" is going to get pummeled this year. I think your top, elite guys will fetch lucrative long term deals that are just backloaded for the cap impact. I think all these second and third tier players, which is where I think Juju will fall, that usually get decent sized 3-4 year deals are really going to struggle this year. I think one year contracts for decent amounts will be hard to come by, given the lack of cap flexibility, and I think teams are going to shy away from the middle class.

I won't be surprised to see like the normal 1-2 day "rush" as FA opens for the top guys, and then I think FA may go like almost silent for weeks at a time, as teams assess their cap impact and try to drive the market down. May see a lot more of the Clowney type situations. Set your price at the moon, you miss the first wave, then you're waiting until after the draft and into the summer before the market shapes up. And by that point, a lot of teams aren't in the mood to spend big $.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Serious question but did Waller? It’s been so long I forgot.

yep - waller played up to his size - it was his best trait really - he had timed speed to help him win deep but wasn't quick - but he imposed his size on DBs and had good hands to win in contested situations

whereas i'll quote this from lance zierlein's profile of miles boykin regarding his size:

"His size won't matter if he doesn't learn to impose it on others. If that happens, he'll become an eventual starter with a high ceiling."

Miles was all developmental traits and he hasn't really developed them
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
i dont really mind what the "skillset" is of any receiver we bring in at the moment but we 100% need someone else other than hollywood who can win on their own and not rely on scheme or manufactured touches to get open - free agency will be expensive which is why i normally shy away from going that route - but im 22 prospects into the WR draft class and there's a ton of smaller guys and a ton of speed but not much size - I don't mind drafting smaller guys but there is some risk in having a WR corps led by smaller guys because it puts more pressure on mark andrews to be that guy in contested situations and he's often double or even triple covered in some of those situations and obviously it means a smaller catch radius for lamar - but it probably also means larger separation windows which helps too...

ultimately i just want to add talent to this corps and we'll work with whatever their skillset is - i know harbs mentioned an anquan boldin type but idk
Idk how much you’ve looked at this wr class, but man this might be the most loaded slot class I’ve ever seen and boundary receivers are lacking. It’s worrying lol.

a day 2 guy I really like for us as a boundary option is Ihmir Smith-Marsette from mizzou, other than that it appears we’re screwed unless we want a slot guy lol
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Idk how much you’ve looked at this wr class, but man this might be the most loaded slot class I’ve ever seen and boundary receivers are lacking. It’s worrying lol.

a day 2 guy I really like for us as a boundary option is Ihmir Smith-Marsette from mizzou, other than that it appears we’re screwed unless we want a slot guy lol

i've got preliminary notes and tier grades on 22 of the WRs so far - not got to smith-marsette yet but he's 5th on my list of guys to get to

i wouldn't say it's worrying - the NFL has been changing for a while to less of a boundary-based passing game - passing concepts and schemes are all about separation which is why these slot guys are now all options

but you're right there's not many "prototypical" frames in this WR class, not a ton of length at the top - there's a lot of guys in that 5'11 to 6'1 range though

it's too early to say for sure but i think bateman's gonna be my guy in the WR class this year (or at least one of my guys)
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
i've got preliminary notes and tier grades on 22 of the WRs so far - not got to smith-marsette yet but he's 5th on my list of guys to get to

i wouldn't say it's worrying - the NFL has been changing for a while to less of a boundary-based passing game - passing concepts and schemes are all about separation which is why these slot guys are now all options

but you're right there's not many "prototypical" frames in this WR class, not a ton of length at the top - there's a lot of guys in that 5'11 to 6'1 range though

it's too early to say for sure but i think bateman's gonna be my guy in the WR class this year (or at least one of my guys)
yeah ive bounced back and forth on bateman and marshall, but im pretty much certain that batemans gonna be my guy.

obviously id take smith and waddle over him, maybe chase idk, but of guys that are potentially realistic, its bateman.

i do like st brown, seth williams, nico collins, dazz newsome, smith-marsette, and jaelon darden later on, but only 3 of those guys look like they wont be mostly slot receivers, and of those 3only 1 isnt super raw.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
yeah ive bounced back and forth on bateman and marshall, but im pretty much certain that batemans gonna be my guy.

obviously id take smith and waddle over him, maybe chase idk, but of guys that are potentially realistic, its bateman.

i do like st brown, seth williams, nico collins, dazz newsome, smith-marsette, and jaelon darden later on, but only 3 of those guys look like they wont be mostly slot receivers, and of those 3only 1 isnt super raw.

for me there's a clear top 4: smith, waddle, bateman and chase (i've currently got them in that order but it's early in the process)

and then there's a bit of a gap to the next guys

i like st brown too, i really don't like seth williams at all (think he's mid-to-late day 3 tbh), nico collins i'm very open to liking but want to see how he does at the senior bowl, dazz newsome i like enough to consider on day 2 maybe but i much prefer a ton of the other small slot guys

and i havent got to smith-marsette and jaelon darden yet

if you want another outside guy to look at who i liked so far maybe have a look at Dyami Brown (dazz newsome's teammate) as a day 2 guy - not a big body but 6'1 195lbs and a real threat downfield - limited route tree but really savvy route runner (some really advanced route running)
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
Idk how much you’ve looked at this wr class, but man this might be the most loaded slot class I’ve ever seen and boundary receivers are lacking. It’s worrying lol.

a day 2 guy I really like for us as a boundary option is Ihmir Smith-Marsette from mizzou, other than that it appears we’re screwed unless we want a slot guy lol
Nothing wrong with that, we could use a slot guy. I also think that the line between slot and outside is blurred especially in our offense. I think you can win with another slot guy and even put him outside because of who we have here. I’m sure the plan is to keep Brown, Duvernay, Proche to all take another step and maybe see if Boykin can do anything. That leaves essentially two spots and I think one goes to a FA and the other to a draft pick.


so that's minter, macdonald and cullen all gone
hopefully though that means chris hewitt stays (and maybe gets another little bump to his pay)

Damn man we’ve been raided on our defensive coaching staff. Isn’t Bienemy still out there without any more vacancies? How is he always being passed up? Lol
i've got preliminary notes and tier grades on 22 of the WRs so far - not got to smith-marsette yet but he's 5th on my list of guys to get to

i wouldn't say it's worrying - the NFL has been changing for a while to less of a boundary-based passing game - passing concepts and schemes are all about separation which is why these slot guys are now all options

but you're right there's not many "prototypical" frames in this WR class, not a ton of length at the top - there's a lot of guys in that 5'11 to 6'1 range though

it's too early to say for sure but i think bateman's gonna be my guy in the WR class this year (or at least one of my guys)
Bateman looks good, I would love Smith (please)
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Damn man we’ve been raided on our defensive coaching staff. Isn’t Bienemy still out there without any more vacancies? How is he always being passed up? Lol

i dont understand it at all - the idea that it's because he doesnt call plays is also ridiculous given the random no-name dudes who've been getting hired this year with zero playcalling experience - tons of people saying it's coz he interviews poorly yet every single "media" interview he has is thoughtful and considered and respectful and saying all the right things so it's unlikely to be that too - and he's clearly a respected coach and leader

so what is it that he's missing?
 

Davesta

Ravens Ring of Honor


If Urban leaves, I would love for the Ravens to bring in Doug Pederson to be our QB / pass game specialist (and eventual mid-season OC).

I know he got a lot of heat for tanking that last game, but I put that on the front office. Howie did him dirty by making him tank for that 6th spot. Ruin his reputation then X’d him. Lol

Also, I’ve already checked. Yes.. Harbs and Pederson have history going back to Harbs eagles days. So he should know his job is secured.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Nothing wrong with that, we could use a slot guy. I also think that the line between slot and outside is blurred especially in our offense. I think you can win with another slot guy and even put him outside because of who we have here. I’m sure the plan is to keep Brown, Duvernay, Proche to all take another step and maybe see if Boykin can do anything. That leaves essentially two spots and I think one goes to a FA and the other to a draft pick.

Damn man we’ve been raided on our defensive coaching staff. Isn’t Bienemy still out there without any more vacancies? How is he always being passed up? Lol

Bateman looks good, I would love Smith (please)
I don’t think slot and boundary is blurred especially in our offense, we desperately need a guy who can play leverage on the sideline and make himself available on fades, right now we have guys who can’t get off press and our #1 wr is 170lbs and gets squeezed into a non-throwable window on those types of routes. It’s not even about being able to complete low percentage throws, just the ability to do it if the defense gives you that throw would do so much to open up the rest of the offense, because being forced to over-respect an outer deep third can be a massive problem when you need an extra body to spy
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I don’t think slot and boundary is blurred especially in our offense, we desperately need a guy who can play leverage on the sideline and make himself available on fades, right now we have guys who can’t get off press and our #1 wr is 170lbs and gets squeezed into a non-throwable window on those types of routes. It’s not even about being able to complete low percentage throws, just the ability to do it if the defense gives you that throw would do so much to open up the rest of the offense, because being forced to over-respect an outer deep third can be a massive problem when you need an extra body to spy

I don’t agree with this at all:

1) fades are not something to build an offence around and leverage on the boundary is a really low percentage strategy - I’m not building my offence around the possibility I might throw that one type of pass

2) Hollywood really doesn’t get squeezed to the boundary like that a ton - the release work he did all offseason really did pay off - he did not struggle to get off press nor did he get taken to the sideline at all

3) We would like another receiver who can win outside but that doesn’t have to mean fades and backshoulders - to me that means: can you beat press, can you challenge corners vertically and can you run routes based off those 2 principles in a way that creates separation - idc what that looks like - and tbh if they, like Hollywood, have the versatility to be a threat out of the slot too then even better because that lets us dictate matchups

The long and short of it is that I just want us to add talent - someone who finds a way to separate - ultimate if they can do that I don’t really care where they line up or what their body type is
 
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