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2021 OL Thread

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Jackson Carman is awesome.

The lack of buzz around him is downright disrespectful.

the top of this class for swing OL is awesome, alijah Vera tucker, rashawn slater, Jackson carman, Alex leatherwood, all guys who look like potential starters at RT and G, should have multiple to choose from at the end of round 1, maybe even a guy left at the end of round 2
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Not sure what it is but honestly I'm not that sold on Wyatt Davis - don't get me wrong he's got qualities and tools and good tape but I don't have him as high as I was expecting too before i began this process

Trey Smith on the other hand - that dude is exciting (or as exciting as an IOL can get lol)
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
so i took too much stock of Creed Humphrey's down year in 2019 because in 2020 he was absolutely phenomenal again
I agree, but I don’t think I see a first rounder anymore.
Just got to Alijah Vera-Tucker and my word... his footwork and hands are amazing - i absolutely love him as a prospect
his play at tackle might end up getting him drafted early(ish) but he's awesome
He’s become one of my favorites for our first, and I’m beginning to think he’s gonna go way higher than we expected
Not sure what it is but honestly I'm not that sold on Wyatt Davis - don't get me wrong he's got qualities and tools and good tape but I don't have him as high as I was expecting too before i began this process

Trey Smith on the other hand - that dude is exciting (or as exciting as an IOL can get lol)
Ya know... I bought the hype on Wyatt Davis, and it slowed for me as well, and through this entire process I have been wondering where is the hype for trey smith because was goddamn ridiculous before his medical shit.

another one is trey hill, where is his hype?
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I agree, but I don’t think I see a first rounder anymore.

He’s become one of my favorites for our first, and I’m beginning to think he’s gonna go way higher than we expected

Ya know... I bought the hype on Wyatt Davis, and it slowed for me as well, and through this entire process I have been wondering where is the hype for trey smith because was goddamn ridiculous before his medical shit.

another one is trey hill, where is his hype?

see I really like Humphrey - he doesn't have the crazy athleticism (but he's got enough and he's been really good finding guys in L2 and L3) and he's got some awesome flexibility in his lower body that is pretty rare in a guy his size - and i watch him and think - what more does he have to show me... and i couldnt really come up with an answer - i go through my notes and my only note that wasn't the highest of praise was just that he wasn't a special athlete...

that suggests to me he's a 1st rounder - he's got a 1st round grade from me

I think Alijah Vera-Tucker's going high - in another class he might be well out of our range - if we have a shot at him it's solely because this draft class is stacked at tackle

Trey Smith I absolutely love - seen him get a bit lazy a few times and I think maybe it's because he's so gifted physically that he kind of loses his focus a bit idk - the only real negatives outside of those occasional lapses are that he looks a bit lost sometimes when he's pulling (can't pick a target) and that he sometimes gets over-aggressive with his punch which could open him up to counters

obviously the medical's got to check out on Smith but I think he's honestly a 1st round-type talent too - he may drop because of the blood clot but otherwise not many flaws in his game either (and i see all 3 of the points ive listed above as pretty minor and very coachable - and according to various media he's going to interview really well)

I'm not a fan of Trey Hill at all - he's got really heavy feet which show up especially when he's asked to move laterally (like when pulling etc.), doesn't find blocks in level 2, can't make those blocks in space - gets caught leaning/lunging way too much and gets countered - idk that he's that great with his leverage either - feel like a guy his size shouldn't be able to be pushed back in the pocket the way he has been

i think he's a good communicator, i think he's a good straight-line athlete for his size and he's a really powerful blocker at the LoS and has the ability to drive defenders back and create space at the point of attack - but given the other guys in the draft at his position idk that those things are enough to get any hype (certainly not from me) - then i look back at last year's class and think he might have been in with a chance of being in the top 4 or 5 IOL in the class - this year i've studied 10 IOL already and he's IOL 10 so far - that's not to say i think he's worthless - i think he's mid-round guy who if a team really likes him has a chance to go in the 3rd round - just about the strength of the class
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
see I really like Humphrey - he doesn't have the crazy athleticism (but he's got enough and he's been really good finding guys in L2 and L3) and he's got some awesome flexibility in his lower body that is pretty rare in a guy his size - and i watch him and think - what more does he have to show me... and i couldnt really come up with an answer - i go through my notes and my only note that wasn't the highest of praise was just that he wasn't a special athlete...

that suggests to me he's a 1st rounder - he's got a 1st round grade from me

I think Alijah Vera-Tucker's going high - in another class he might be well out of our range - if we have a shot at him it's solely because this draft class is stacked at tackle

Trey Smith I absolutely love - seen him get a bit lazy a few times and I think maybe it's because he's so gifted physically that he kind of loses his focus a bit idk - the only real negatives outside of those occasional lapses are that he looks a bit lost sometimes when he's pulling (can't pick a target) and that he sometimes gets over-aggressive with his punch which could open him up to counters

obviously the medical's got to check out on Smith but I think he's honestly a 1st round-type talent too - he may drop because of the blood clot but otherwise not many flaws in his game either (and i see all 3 of the points ive listed above as pretty minor and very coachable - and according to various media he's going to interview really well)

I'm not a fan of Trey Hill at all - he's got really heavy feet which show up especially when he's asked to move laterally (like when pulling etc.), doesn't find blocks in level 2, can't make those blocks in space - gets caught leaning/lunging way too much and gets countered - idk that he's that great with his leverage either - feel like a guy his size shouldn't be able to be pushed back in the pocket the way he has been

i think he's a good communicator, i think he's a good straight-line athlete for his size and he's a really powerful blocker at the LoS and has the ability to drive defenders back and create space at the point of attack - but given the other guys in the draft at his position idk that those things are enough to get any hype (certainly not from me) - then i look back at last year's class and think he might have been in with a chance of being in the top 4 or 5 IOL in the class - this year i've studied 10 IOL already and he's IOL 10 so far - that's not to say i think he's worthless - i think he's mid-round guy who if a team really likes him has a chance to go in the 3rd round - just about the strength of the class
I don’t like hill as a round 1 or 2 or likely even 3, just to clarify, but I think a lot of hills issues you pointed out can be solved with nfl conditioning, he’s got a real heavy midsection that needs to cut a good bit of weight, he’s a guy I could see breaking out in year 3 after some good conditioning and tightening up his game. He’s just got so much stupid raw power and he absolutely drives grown ass looking SEC defensive linemen.

trey smith is a guy I could see the ravens go after in a trade back, like if we get an offer to move back to the late 30s he’s probably one of the guys the ravens are gonna have their eyes on
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I don’t like hill as a round 1 or 2 or likely even 3, just to clarify, but I think a lot of hills issues you pointed out can be solved with nfl conditioning, he’s got a real heavy midsection that needs to cut a good bit of weight, he’s a guy I could see breaking out in year 3 after some good conditioning and tightening up his game. He’s just got so much stupid raw power and he absolutely drives grown ass looking SEC defensive linemen.

trey smith is a guy I could see the ravens go after in a trade back, like if we get an offer to move back to the late 30s he’s probably one of the guys the ravens are gonna have their eyes on

100% - just as long as we're comfortable with the medical
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
From the reps I’ve seen, which was about 5-6 reps each, drake Jackson looked like the best iOL at the senior bowl and he was doing it against the likes of Marvin Wilson
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Also David Moore looked like a fucking Great Wall of China and pissed off basham so bad he was ready to throw hands lol
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
From the reps I’ve seen, which was about 5-6 reps each, drake Jackson looked like the best iOL at the senior bowl and he was doing it against the likes of Marvin Wilson

he was certainly up there with the top IOL performers at the senior bowl - was definitely one of the very short list of guys who dealt with Wilson at all - he did also get whooped a couple of times by some of the other interior guys but did pretty well (especially on wednesday)

marlon tuipolotu tbf was one of the guys who whooped him with a push-pull and then whooped trey smith later that day - marlon tuipolotu went straight on my list after that lol

it should probably be mentioned that jackson does have really short arms and small hands which does make him susceptible to push-pull type moves - something to watch out for moving forwards

EDIT:
it doesnt necessarily matter how many good reps he puts in - the senior bowl was an issue for him as soon as he weighed in... 290lbs, with the shortest arms of anyone at the senior bowl and smallest hands ive seen in an OL for a long long time...
 
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JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
he was certainly up there with the top IOL performers at the senior bowl - was definitely one of the very short list of guys who dealt with Wilson at all - he did also get whooped a couple of times by some of the other interior guys but did pretty well (especially on wednesday)

marlon tuipolotu tbf was one of the guys who whooped him with a push-pull and then whooped trey smith later that day - marlon tuipolotu went straight on my list after that lol

it should probably be mentioned that jackson does have really short arms and small hands which does make him susceptible to push-pull type moves - something to watch out for moving forwards

EDIT:
it doesnt necessarily matter how many good reps he puts in - the senior bowl was an issue for him as soon as he weighed in... 290lbs, with the shortest arms of anyone at the senior bowl and smallest hands ive seen in an OL for a long long time...
That marlon fella I thought had some seriously worthless reps lol but I specifically remember the push pull on Jackson and I was like damn lol
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
That marlon fella I thought had some seriously worthless reps lol but I specifically remember the push pull on Jackson and I was like damn lol

cant really comment on him more than i saw at the senior bowl because i havent watched any of his tape yet but i thought he had quite a few nice looking reps

and one other think on drake jackson - he did well vs marvin wilson but i think it's important to look at those reps and notice how far he was getting pushed back - he would recover well but on 1 of those reps Wilson got penetration which jackson just about managed to divert and on another he got pushed 5 yards into the backfield - he's good at setting his anchor after the initial loss off the snap but i do worry about him getting bullied by high-quality interior defenders in the NFL who've got multiple options to blow him up based purely on his physical limitations

think he's got a chance in a zone system - really good at reach blocks and sealing off and moving in space in L2 or comboing and getting to L2 reminds me a lot in terms of outlook of nick harris last year
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
watching jalen mayfield and it's absolutely criminal that michael onwenu was allowed to drop to the 6th round - i remember first having him brought to my attention by @Edgar in his cesar ruiz video last year and it was wild that he wasnt invited to the senior bowl (had to make do with the east-west shrine) and that he garnered so little attention while bredeson got all the plaudits

so many times on mayfield's tape especially in pass pro that onwenu covers for him and saves his ass and it was always evident that onwenu was an absolute mauler - in any do-over he's going in the 2nd round - it's wild that with all that tape the NFL let him slip to the 6th
 

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
Anybody can explain why Jackson Carman is being talked about by literally nobody? I just watched 2 games and he's easily above the likes of Leatherwood, Eichenberg or Cosmi so far.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Anybody can explain why Jackson Carman is being talked about by literally nobody? I just watched 2 games and he's easily above the likes of Leatherwood, Eichenberg or Cosmi so far.

i think carman has issues in pass pro - he's massive, strong and pretty agile given his size - but his technique in pass pro is pretty awful - rarely uses his hands to strike, when he does it's often too early and with both hands which gets him lunging and opens him up to counters - often ends up catching rushers with hand positioning too wide - think he's got some leverage issues with his pad level getting too high too

ive got a 2nd round grade on him - which is the same grade i gave leatherwood and Mayfield (who's also got some leverage issues but is physically gifted) - got cosmi graded a little later than those 3

I like Eichenberg though - slightly lower ceiling than some of the other guys just because he doesn't have flashy athleticism but he's fundamentally so sound and is a bully and technically really proficient - got an early 2nd round grade on eichenberg
 

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
i think carman has issues in pass pro - he's massive, strong and pretty agile given his size - but his technique in pass pro is pretty awful - rarely uses his hands to strike, when he does it's often too early and with both hands which gets him lunging and opens him up to counters - often ends up catching rushers with hand positioning too wide - think he's got some leverage issues with his pad level getting too high too

ive got a 2nd round grade on him - which is the same grade i gave leatherwood and Mayfield (who's also got some leverage issues but is physically gifted) - got cosmi graded a little later than those 3

I like Eichenberg though - slightly lower ceiling than some of the other guys just because he doesn't have flashy athleticism but he's fundamentally so sound and is a bully and technically really proficient - got an early 2nd round grade on eichenberg
Do you have any games where he had several losses ? I've literally counted one loss so far and it wasn't really telling.
 
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