2021 DB Thread

Greg Newsome CB, Northwestern wearing #2 has apparently given up the least yards in the country this year and in this Ohio Northwestern showdown, Fields hasnt even looked his way despite looking all over the place

DB definitely a position that we've started discussing elsewhere on this forum so feels appropriate that we should start this thread here

Jaycee Horn from South Carolina has also been pretty damn impressive this year

interesting take

This semifinal is just showing up just how impressive the performance of those northwestern corners was

Thoughts on Eric Stokes?

idk if anyone saw this during the titans wildcard game

So, DB in general is not a huge need for us, but I wouldn't complain one bit about Jevon Holland in the late first. It'd be nice having a true center fielder in the defense again, with great range and ball skills.

RaineV1 said:

So, DB in general is not a huge need for us, but I wouldn't complain one bit about Jevon Holland in the late first. It'd be nice having a true center fielder in the defense again, with great range and ball skills.

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I like Jevon Holland but I don’t see a first round talent there. For my money I’d take trevon moehrig over Holland 8 days a week.

Kary Vincent Jr is really interesting - opted out of 2020 but his 2019 tape is really nice...

he's super athletic - exceptional athlete with fluid hips, and explosive and elite long-speed which is obviously really nice
but what made me immediately start paying tons of attention was his positional versatility - he's playing mostly in the slot but also played a lot of safety and was being asked to disguise coverage by rotating late or even post-snap (which you don't see a ton in college) - at times he was out there playing single high and looked good

he's got great ball skills and is so fast to close on the ball

he takes risks and sometimes his eyes get too high and he becomes susceptible to head-fakes and can over-react to big jab steps etc. (but i think that's pretty coachable technique tbh) - seems to be late to react a few too many times which is probably related to the eye discipline but maybe it's a route recognition thing...

that would be the only big negative on his profile for me

not the most enthusiastic or refined tackler either i suppose

but he was someone on my list who i'd not heard of and who took me completely by surprise - i think he'd have amazing value on the Ravens with that slot/safety versatility and his explosive and fluid traits and nice play recognition - would be a great fit in our dime defence

and all im seeing most places is early-mid day 3 at best - i think he's a day 2 guy easily

Richie grant is one of the truest ballhawking safeties I think I’ve ever seen on college film

granted I haven’t seen many college safeties that I felt looked like a true ballhawk, Malik hooker was the closest thing I had seen.

I feel like grant is gonna be a special player... I always hope to find a steal at one of our needs like edge or wr or ol, but a real coverage safety is low key one of the bigger needs, and I can’t convince myself that Richie grant shouldn’t be a huge contender for our 2nd rounder if he’s there. I really don’t see why he isn’t widely considered a slam dunk first rounder lol, but I guess I trust the consensus more than my film study too much.

JoeyFlex5 said:

Richie grant is one of the truest ballhawking safeties I think I’ve ever seen on college film

granted I haven’t seen many college safeties that I felt looked like a true ballhawk, Malik hooker was the closest thing I had seen.

I feel like grant is gonna be a special player... I always hope to find a steal at one of our needs like edge or wr or ol, but a real coverage safety is low key one of the bigger needs, and I can’t convince myself that Richie grant shouldn’t be a huge contender for our 2nd rounder if he’s there. I really don’t see why he isn’t widely considered a slam dunk first rounder lol, but I guess I trust the consensus more than my film study too much.

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i think we might start to see some 1st round discussion on him as we get closer to the draft - think he's going to rise up lots of boards - i know one of the CBS guys has him as a top 15 guy in the whole class already - i think he's a better prospect than all of the safeties from last year's class who all went in the 2nd round (McKinney, Dugger, Delpit, Winfield Jr) - but i wonder if that's partly a positional "value" thing with safeties - all 4 of those guys got picked within a 10 pick span near the top of the 2nd

so far there's 4 safeties i like in this class - Washington and Richie Grant i think are the class of the safety class but i like Jevon Holland and Trevon Moehrig behind them also

rossihunter2 said:

i think we might start to see some 1st round discussion on him as we get closer to the draft - think he's going to rise up lots of boards - i know one of the CBS guys has him as a top 15 guy in the whole class already - i think he's a better prospect than all of the safeties from last year's class who all went in the 2nd round (McKinney, Dugger, Delpit, Winfield Jr) - but i wonder if that's partly a positional "value" thing with safeties - all 4 of those guys got picked within a 10 pick span near the top of the 2nd

so far there's 4 safeties i like in this class - Washington and Richie Grant i think are the class of the safety class but i like Jevon Holland and Trevon Moehrig behind them also

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That top 15 is honestly where I would have him if I’m ignoring all media and only watching film for myself lol. He doesn’t just look like he has a few traits or whatever, he looks special to me in coverage, he’s not taking advantage of overthrows or right place right time, he is baiting throws, when that ball is thrown intermediate to deep he is a threat.

when is the last time a safety won DROY? I’m not sure I can go that far, but I think he’s gonna be at least a pro bowl rookie and go on to have a great career.

rossihunter2 said:

i think we might start to see some 1st round discussion on him as we get closer to the draft - think he's going to rise up lots of boards - i know one of the CBS guys has him as a top 15 guy in the whole class already - i think he's a better prospect than all of the safeties from last year's class who all went in the 2nd round (McKinney, Dugger, Delpit, Winfield Jr) - but i wonder if that's partly a positional "value" thing with safeties - all 4 of those guys got picked within a 10 pick span near the top of the 2nd

so far there's 4 safeties i like in this class - Washington and Richie Grant i think are the class of the safety class but i like Jevon Holland and Trevon Moehrig behind them also

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I really hope we get one of those guys in the 2nd.. idc which one. I love this S class

im putting a hard first round grade on richie grant. im pounding the table saying he will be one of the best players of this class.

if i could remove positional value and all consensus from the media, and grade players strictly on what i think is their likelihood of becoming a special nfl player, i would have richie grant in my top 5. i think he has future all pro, best S in the league, generational player written all over him. i hate studying safety film, probably my least favorite position to watch, but not grant, i see ed reed shit with richie grant and i dont think that hyperbole lol, ive never watched a college safety who is so many steps ahead of everyone else on the field, he KNOWS how to get the qb to throw the ball right where he wants it and he has stupid flex and explosion to flip and fire out of a backpedal and get to the ball comfortably. doesnt hurt that he could be a full time box safety if we so wished(hes talented enough to do it, but it would be a waste of his talents) so versatility isnt a question, durability, athleticism, size, IQ, instinct, work in the film room, arent questions either.

honestly, i dont care that this sounds extreme, i think richie grant is as much of a slam dunk prospect as any in this class. trevon moehrig is not in the same universe.

its gotten to the point for me that i almost wanna draft him at 27, because id rather have an all pro at S than a bust anywhere else, and i dont see a player going around 27 that id be more confident in NOT being a bust.

JoeyFlex5 said:

im putting a hard first round grade on richie grant. im pounding the table saying he will be one of the best players of this class.

if i could remove positional value and all consensus from the media, and grade players strictly on what i think is their likelihood of becoming a special nfl player, i would have richie grant in my top 5. i think he has future all pro, best S in the league, generational player written all over him. i hate studying safety film, probably my least favorite position to watch, but not grant, i see ed reed shit with richie grant and i dont think that hyperbole lol, ive never watched a college safety who is so many steps ahead of everyone else on the field, he KNOWS how to get the qb to throw the ball right where he wants it and he has stupid flex and explosion to flip and fire out of a backpedal and get to the ball comfortably. doesnt hurt that he could be a full time box safety if we so wished(hes talented enough to do it, but it would be a waste of his talents) so versatility isnt a question, durability, athleticism, size, IQ, instinct, work in the film room, arent questions either.

honestly, i dont care that this sounds extreme, i think richie grant is as much of a slam dunk prospect as any in this class. trevon moehrig is not in the same universe.

its gotten to the point for me that i almost wanna draft him at 27, because id rather have an all pro at S than a bust anywhere else, and i dont see a player going around 27 that id be more confident in NOT being a bust.

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haha i like richie grant but sounds like he's definitely "my guy" material for you lol

im right there with you on watching safety tape, despite the dearth of talent at TE and RB this class, I've still managed to grade more guys at those positions (including some udfas) than I've done safeties (only done 7 safeties so far) - compare that to the 35 EDGE/DL, 29 OL and 43 WRs I've graded lol - the only position i've watched less of than S is QB lol

rossihunter2 said:

haha i like richie grant but sounds like he's definitely "my guy" material for you lol

im right there with you on watching safety tape, despite the dearth of talent at TE and RB this class, I've still managed to grade more guys at those positions (including some udfas) than I've done safeties (only done 7 safeties so far) - compare that to the 35 EDGE/DL, 29 OL and 43 WRs I've graded lol - the only position i've watched less of than S is QB lol

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keep in mind, you are organized and systemic in grading and film study, ill just watch prospects all day without taking a single note or screen shot and no real board or rankings, i just go off of what i recall from the film, and if i need to ill go rewatch a few times lol, which ive been doing the past few days.

thoughts on grant have been amplified after re watching, he just looks so natural and comfortable and confident making plays in coverage, shits easy to him. ardarius washington has been reinforced too, you see a bit of the same, but hes much more reactionary than grant and the difference is noticeable, however i think washington is going to be a star nickel/S3/cb3 before he starts at S, which has great value, but i think with grant it doesnt matter where hes drafted he will be locked in as the starting FS before the first week of camp is over. what he puts on film is the kinda shit coaches are going to rave over when he first rolls into camp and starts doing more of the same.

JoeyFlex5 said:

im putting a hard first round grade on richie grant. im pounding the table saying he will be one of the best players of this class.

if i could remove positional value and all consensus from the media, and grade players strictly on what i think is their likelihood of becoming a special nfl player, i would have richie grant in my top 5. i think he has future all pro, best S in the league, generational player written all over him. i hate studying safety film, probably my least favorite position to watch, but not grant, i see ed reed shit with richie grant and i dont think that hyperbole lol, ive never watched a college safety who is so many steps ahead of everyone else on the field, he KNOWS how to get the qb to throw the ball right where he wants it and he has stupid flex and explosion to flip and fire out of a backpedal and get to the ball comfortably. doesnt hurt that he could be a full time box safety if we so wished(hes talented enough to do it, but it would be a waste of his talents) so versatility isnt a question, durability, athleticism, size, IQ, instinct, work in the film room, arent questions either.

honestly, i dont care that this sounds extreme, i think richie grant is as much of a slam dunk prospect as any in this class. trevon moehrig is not in the same universe.

its gotten to the point for me that i almost wanna draft him at 27, because id rather have an all pro at S than a bust anywhere else, and i dont see a player going around 27 that id be more confident in NOT being a bust.

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It dnt sound extreme.. i thought the same thing about budda baker coming out..i love these safties coming out and the fact that you all do too have to mean something right? Lol

rossihunter2 said:

haha i like richie grant but sounds like he's definitely "my guy" material for you lol

im right there with you on watching safety tape, despite the dearth of talent at TE and RB this class, I've still managed to grade more guys at those positions (including some udfas) than I've done safeties (only done 7 safeties so far) - compare that to the 35 EDGE/DL, 29 OL and 43 WRs I've graded lol - the only position i've watched less of than S is QB lol

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Positions like cb and S i feel you dnt really have to watch much tbh. Just by watching the highlights, you can tell if the guy has it or not and is he worth diving a lil deeper on.
for me, if i try to watch an edge rusher or olineman, i dnt know wtf is going on lmao ( unless its quentin nelson)..

JoeyFlex5 said:

im putting a hard first round grade on richie grant. im pounding the table saying he will be one of the best players of this class.

if i could remove positional value and all consensus from the media, and grade players strictly on what i think is their likelihood of becoming a special nfl player, i would have richie grant in my top 5. i think he has future all pro, best S in the league, generational player written all over him. i hate studying safety film, probably my least favorite position to watch, but not grant, i see ed reed shit with richie grant and i dont think that hyperbole lol, ive never watched a college safety who is so many steps ahead of everyone else on the field, he KNOWS how to get the qb to throw the ball right where he wants it and he has stupid flex and explosion to flip and fire out of a backpedal and get to the ball comfortably. doesnt hurt that he could be a full time box safety if we so wished(hes talented enough to do it, but it would be a waste of his talents) so versatility isnt a question, durability, athleticism, size, IQ, instinct, work in the film room, arent questions either.

honestly, i dont care that this sounds extreme, i think richie grant is as much of a slam dunk prospect as any in this class. trevon moehrig is not in the same universe.

its gotten to the point for me that i almost wanna draft him at 27, because id rather have an all pro at S than a bust anywhere else, and i dont see a player going around 27 that id be more confident in NOT being a bust.

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What if batesman is there?

Deebo813 said:

It dnt sound extreme.. i thought the same thing about budda baker coming out..i love these safties coming out and the fact that you all do too have to mean something right? Lol

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lol i was BIG on budda baker coming out too, thats when we were looking for weddles replacement and i wanted baker bad and i was pissed when he crushed the combine and shot up way past our 2nd round pick lol

Deebo813 said:

Positions like cb and S i feel you dnt really have to watch much tbh. Just by watching the highlights, you can tell if the guy has it or not and is he worth diving a lil deeper on.
for me, if i try to watch an edge rusher or olineman, i dnt know wtf is going on lmao ( unless its quentin nelson)..

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im trash watching dbs, but all 22 helps, and ive found some all 22 on grant, but im right there with you on the highlights, i do the same, i look for what they do best so i can tell if hes a player i think fits what we need if theyre at their best, then ill dive in the film. with safeties, if i see highlights of you making a bunch of tackles after a moderate gain, or ten yards away from the nearest receiver and catching balls on tip drills, and thats all your highlight reel is, then im not bothering with the film lol.

edge rusher and OL film is best watched from the sky cam and it can be a bitch to find lol. its tough to evaluate otherwise, but a few key things i always look for in edge rushers: how do they engage? attacking half of the blocker, actively removing the blockers hands with good timing, etc. and then how do they bend? do they have at least a go-to move to disengage and bend that edge effectively. azeez ojulari, joseph ossai, ronnie perkins, adetkunbo ogundeji, these are guys that all look like they have some of these things locked down, but they all do it in different ways.

Deebo813 said:

Positions like cb and S i feel you dnt really have to watch much tbh. Just by watching the highlights, you can tell if the guy has it or not and is he worth diving a lil deeper on.
for me, if i try to watch an edge rusher or olineman, i dnt know wtf is going on lmao ( unless its quentin nelson)..

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nah man, for me you've got to watch non-highlights especially with safeties

Cisco's probably the best example this year - if you watched his highlights, you'd think he was the 2nd coming of Ed Reed on steroids... an absolute boat-load of picks, jumping underneath routes to make highlight-worthy hits or break ups

from his highlights you'd probably think he has great anticipation, great physical tackler, erases the middle of the field etc.

but in actuality he's a free-lancer who blew a ton of coverages, is an inconsistent tackler - and generally a really inconsistent player on a drive-by-drive basis

with corners i like to be able to see what they do when they get beat, or what they do when the ball's not coming their way (not gonna learn a ton about Caleb Farley from his highlights because in his 2 best games they through to his side of the field maybe once or twice and that was it...)

but they're probably the 2 hardest positions to scout as a lay-person because of the lack of access to all-22 but it's worse for safeties because they rarely appear in replays on good plays either lol unless they made a play in man coverage