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The 2021 Offseason Thread

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Oh yea for sure but the other 3 guys are already able to do them though.. people are gonna be giving our coaches credit for those 3 when those already have a history of showcasing what they can do.. what we need the most is better passing concepts and for lamar to read defenses before presnap

The passing concepts ultimately come down to the OC- Mr. Greg Roman. The other two (Williams/Martin) can only give advice and analysis but not the overall decisions. I am glad to have heard EDC give the two credit for telling them which receivers they wanted and why
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Oh yea for sure but the other 3 guys are already able to do them though.. people are gonna be giving our coaches credit for those 3 when those already have a history of showcasing what they can do.. what we need the most is better passing concepts and for lamar to read defenses before presnap
and passing concepts for this season should be credited to Roman, due to him being the OC. However, I'm sure if we start to see these improved concepts on game day the new coaches have had an impact. Also as Sizzle said above, EDC mentioned they had impact on the WR selections.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
The passing concepts ultimately come down to the OC- Mr. Greg Roman. The other two (Williams/Martin) can only give advice and analysis but not the overall decisions. I am glad to have heard EDC give the two credit for telling them which receivers they wanted and why
Williams and Martin will have major impact on the game plan, but it's up to Roman to call the plays.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Williams and Martin will have major impact on the game plan, but it's up to Roman to call the plays.

Exactly. So like I said, it ultimately comes down to Roman. Doesn’t matter if Martin/Williams draw up HOF worthy material, if Roman doesn’t use it, then too bad
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
If our offense improves even further I do hope that Roman gets some of the credit. I feel he's a good OC that has been (unfairly) villainised by some fans and that narrative is tough to shake.
Yea i lowkey like roman. I feel he got the run game down to a T.. just need to improve his passing concepts i guess. Has he ever been the oc of a gunslinger before?
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Hollywood, watkins and bateman already know how to get open so im not giving our new coach staff for anything they do. When i see duvernay and boykin improve their route running, thats when ill start giving tee martin credit

eh?
weird... especially given one of the coaches has already worked with Watkins to make him better - and you can see his success using those elements in the NFL...

how many guys do you want Keith Williams to improve before you give him credit - he's a route-running coach though not a miracle-worker - i doubt boykin's going to be good

and as others have said - if those guys do become good route runners then you might as well just put Tee and Dubb in the hall of fame right now...

it's not like bateman and hollywood are finished products - these are young guys who will need to improve (just like Davante Adams knew how to get open but has since become a top 3-5 WR in the league...) - them being successful should be a credit to the WR coaches too...
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Yea i lowkey like roman. I feel he got the run game down to a T.. just need to improve his passing concepts i guess. Has he ever been the oc of a gunslinger before?
He has had A. Smith and Colin K. in SF and Tyrod Taylor in Buffalo. The answer to that question is no.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
eh?
weird... especially given one of the coaches has already worked with Watkins to make him better - and you can see his success using those elements in the NFL...

how many guys do you want Keith Williams to improve before you give him credit - he's a route-running coach though not a miracle-worker - i doubt boykin's going to be good

and as others have said - if those guys do become good route runners then you might as well just put Tee and Dubb in the hall of fame right now...

it's not like bateman and hollywood are finished products - these are young guys who will need to improve (just like Davante Adams knew how to get open but has since become a top 3-5 WR in the league...) - them being successful should be a credit to the WR coaches too...

Others as in Sizzle... thank you!!!
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
eh?
weird... especially given one of the coaches has already worked with Watkins to make him better - and you can see his success using those elements in the NFL...

how many guys do you want Keith Williams to improve before you give him credit - he's a route-running coach though not a miracle-worker - i doubt boykin's going to be good

and as others have said - if those guys do become good route runners then you might as well just put Tee and Dubb in the hall of fame right now...

it's not like bateman and hollywood are finished products - these are young guys who will need to improve (just like Davante Adams knew how to get open but has since become a top 3-5 WR in the league...) - them being successful should be a credit to the WR coaches too...
they arent finished products but i doubt we will see enough evidence with those three for us to give the coaches credit. Watkins has never been anytbing special. A decent wr at best. If i see improvement from duvernay and boykin than by all means they deserve the credit but what im saying i doubt we will see it with watkina, bateman and hollywood.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
they arent finished products but i doubt we will see enough evidence with those three for us to give the coaches credit. Watkins has never been anytbing special. A decent wr at best. If i see improvement from duvernay and boykin than by all means they deserve the credit but what im saying i doubt we will see it with watkina, bateman and hollywood.

my point with watkins is that we've already seen one of our coaches change and improve watkins game...

and just because hollywood and bateman are good, doesn't mean they're perfect receivers who've perfected their craft - we give joe d'allesandris credit not just for making random scrubs effective on the interior OL but also for helping develop orlando into a really good player and ronnie stanley into an all-pro...

i just think it's ridiculous to assume that good players are good because they're good and that it has nothing at all to do with coaching...
we've had guys we liked as receivers in the building before who've done absolutely nothing - and lots of us have been absolutely livid about the WR coach in those instances - would be wild to not give the new guys credit if we start pumping out some successful receivers...

you're talking about bateman as if he's already some sort of all-pro/future HoFer before he's even stepped into rookie minicamp let alone actually played a professional snap

the other thing is, that with bateman it should be pretty obvious whether there's been coaching - there's bits of his release that need revamping, and we'll probably be able to see in the details of his routes etc...

how these guys release in 2021 will probably tell us a lot about how well they've been coached
 

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
my point with watkins is that we've already seen one of our coaches change and improve watkins game...

and just because hollywood and bateman are good, doesn't mean they're perfect receivers who've perfected their craft - we give joe d'allesandris credit not just for making random scrubs effective on the interior OL but also for helping develop orlando into a really good player and ronnie stanley into an all-pro...

i just think it's ridiculous to assume that good players are good because they're good and that it has nothing at all to do with coaching...
we've had guys we liked as receivers in the building before who've done absolutely nothing - and lots of us have been absolutely livid about the WR coach in those instances - would be wild to not give the new guys credit if we start pumping out some successful receivers...

you're talking about bateman as if he's already some sort of all-pro/future HoFer before he's even stepped into rookie minicamp let alone actually played a professional snap

the other thing is, that with bateman it should be pretty obvious whether there's been coaching - there's bits of his release that need revamping, and we'll probably be able to see in the details of his routes etc...

how these guys release in 2021 will probably tell us a lot about how well they've been coached
We see our oline improvements year after year though so he deserves the credit.. what have we really seen from watkins that suggest he did anything for him? Cause he really wasnt all that with bills like people
Make him out to be..Are we gonna see any improvement from boykin or duvermay? Cause thats the only
Way id be convinced.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
We see our oline improvements year after year though so he deserves the credit.. what have we really seen from watkins that suggest he did anything for him? Cause he really wasnt all that with bills like people
Make him out to be..Are we gonna see any improvement from boykin or duvermay? Cause thats the only
Way id be convinced.

He wasn’t all that with the Bills because he kept getting hurt, and those type of injuries he was getting are the type that slowly drains your explosiveness and speed away. For all the injuries Watkins has had, if it weren’t for his routes and releases, he wouldn’t even be playing anymore. Kudos to Williams for helping Watkins change his game up to save his career at least a little. And you’re forgetting about how well Davante Adams has done as a result from the coaching as well
 
Boykin doesn't have any confidence and that can't be taught. He also keeps running routes, wrong. Lamar has lost trust in him as well and it's noticeable.
More than trust - they don't seem to have a relationship at all! We saw that tweet from Lamar about his "OG" receivers and it turned out he "didn't know" Boykin had twitter? Feel like that's something that comes out in even fairly basic conversation if you talk regularly.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
More than trust - they don't seem to have a relationship at all! We saw that tweet from Lamar about his "OG" receivers and it turned out he "didn't know" Boykin had twitter? Feel like that's something that comes out in even fairly basic conversation if you talk regularly.

He knew he had Twitter- that was an early 20 year old’s way of trying to save face
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
More than trust - they don't seem to have a relationship at all! We saw that tweet from Lamar about his "OG" receivers and it turned out he "didn't know" Boykin had twitter? Feel like that's something that comes out in even fairly basic conversation if you talk regularly.
When Lamar was with his receivers and Dobbins, in AZ, I'm not sure Boykin was one of the receivers.
 
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