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The 2021 Offseason Thread

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Shit, you mean all the times the receivers ran in the same exact areas on the play, and when Snead blew up Boykin in the Chiefs game, were on the receivers and not mentally challenged level play calling from Roman??

lol i forgot about that one
the one that always comes to mind for me is one where andrews took his route outside the LB rather than inside the LB which brought the safety to Hollywood who was wide open if Andrews doesn't run his route into the same area and ultimately lamar doesn't throw what would have otherwise been an easy deep TD
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
lol i forgot about that one
the one that always comes to mind for me is one where andrews took his route outside the LB rather than inside the LB which brought the safety to Hollywood who was wide open if Andrews doesn't run his route into the same area and ultimately lamar doesn't throw what would have otherwise been an easy deep TD

I mean the receivers under both Engram and Culley were comical in what they did sometimes
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I mean the receivers under both Engram and Culley were comical in what they did sometimes

i will say this for engram - he never really had any WR talent to mould - vets did well with him as the WR coach and it must be said he helped squeeze a season out of kamar aiken - but not sure he had much talent to work with ever... and the TE room has consistently been productive the last 2 years even when guys have gone down so you have to give him credit there

culley had hollywood but idk that there's anything he's obviously developed about him that we didnt see hollywood working on before coming into the offseason (we got to see all those offseason workouts of him focusing on his releases and they really paid off)
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
not sure that’s actually true
the physics suggests that some wobble actually helps stabilise a ball’s trajectory - I’m not talking as much wobble as we see from Lamar at times but a super tight spiral doesn’t actually move through the air as effectively as a ball with some wobble

and receivers catch weird balls arriving in weird spots and without spirals all the time - if a receiver needs the ball spiralled to him to catch it then he’s probably not a pro-receiver

So wobbly passes are better in the wind than a ball that cuts straight through it? And I’m not saying an NFL Wr can’t catch them... I’m saying they love it more because it’s easier to catch

That's an interesting take, Rossi. I would also think a tighter spiral would travel farther than a wobbly pass as well.

I'm not particularly worried about it because I do agree with Rossi, it's not that common to see a wobbly pass during games.
 

ChainedBird

Practice Squad
I'd have to agree with Rossi (random guy claiming to have a degree in Physics, but I really do lol).

If the ball has a little wobble then it makes the area covered by the ball around the centre of gravity a little wider. Kind've the difference between blowing over a mountain bike with thick tyres versus blowing over a racing bike, a little bit harder to do but they're a bit slower. Or an extreme example, blowing over a walking human versus a human on roller blades. A little less speed (and perhaps distance), but a bit more stability in windy weather.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
I'd have to agree with Rossi (random guy claiming to have a degree in Physics, but I really do lol).

If the ball has a little wobble then it makes the area covered by the ball around the centre of gravity a little wider. Kind've the difference between blowing over a mountain bike with thick tyres versus blowing over a racing bike, a little bit harder to do but they're a bit slower. Or an extreme example, blowing over a walking human versus a human on roller blades. A little less speed (and perhaps distance), but a bit more stability in windy weather.

Actual physics disagree with you both.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...0/05/football-physics-why-throw-a-spiral/amp/

https://www.encyclopedia.com/sports...isure-magazines/football-passing-aerodynamics
 
I also have a physics degree and my intuition, for whatever that's worth, is that a tight spiral would always travel better because the point presents the smallest surface area to the air it's travelling through and hence meets the least resistance.

We really do discuss some weird shit in the off-season lol
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
I also have a physics degree and my intuition, for whatever that's worth, is that a tight spiral would always travel better because the point presents the smallest surface area to the air it's travelling through and hence meets the least resistance.

We really do discuss some weird shit in the off-season lol

Thank you for chiming in. I mean if I’m wrong, I sincerely apologize, and would love to be corrected so I don’t spew garbage out when I have my local bar sports talk lol. But research and physicists alike point to what you and I say
 
Back on the original point of that Lamar throw to Watkins - I've seen it killed on two different shows (Pat McAfee and Around the NFL) not because of Lamar's mechanics or whatever, but because it's an absolutely brainless thing for the social team to put out. Bad throws get made by good QBs all the time in camp. Putting that out there just fuels the narrative around Lamar. Presumably someone in social got a talking to after that.
 
Thank you for chiming in. I mean if I’m wrong, I sincerely apologize, and would love to be corrected so I don’t spew garbage out when I have my local bar sports talk lol. But research and physicists alike point to what you and I say
Don’t disagree, but throwing the ball the fastest isn’t the goal, it’s getting it caught by the guy in your team.
 
Don’t disagree, but throwing the ball the fastest isn’t the goal, it’s getting it caught by the guy in your team.
The point is more that a tight spiral gives the QB more control over where the ball goes. Plus, if the spiral is tight, a receiver can catch it more easily because the orientation of the ball when it arrives is predictable rather than chaotic with a tumbling football.
 
The point is more that a tight spiral gives the QB more control over where the ball goes. Plus, if the spiral is tight, a receiver can catch it more easily because the orientation of the ball when it arrives is predictable rather than chaotic with a tumbling football.

But a tight spiral doesn’t mean the ball goes where it should. Placement matters far more IMO, not like they are fielding a punt.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
But a tight spiral doesn’t mean the ball goes where it should. Placement matters far more IMO, not like they are fielding a punt.
I think this sort of qualifies as a "duh". I mean I can throw a pretty tight spiral, but I also would miss receivers left and right because, well, I suck at it.

I would obviously take an accurate QB who doesn't throw a tight spiral over an inaccurate QB who does. I think just generally everybody does find Lamar's throwing motion and the way the ball comes out of his hand to be a bit "odd" from a guy of his talent and playing at this level. It's those kinds of mechanical defects that people use as a knock against him.

If he wins MVPs and wins playoff games, nobody will give a shit in the long run. He's winning 74% of the games he starts.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
But a tight spiral doesn’t mean the ball goes where it should. Placement matters far more IMO, not like they are fielding a punt.

A tighter spiral increases the likelihood that it will get where it needs to go
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
I think this sort of qualifies as a "duh". I mean I can throw a pretty tight spiral, but I also would miss receivers left and right because, well, I suck at it.

I would obviously take an accurate QB who doesn't throw a tight spiral over an inaccurate QB who does. I think just generally everybody does find Lamar's throwing motion and the way the ball comes out of his hand to be a bit "odd" from a guy of his talent and playing at this level. It's those kinds of mechanical defects that people use as a knock against him.

If he wins MVPs and wins playoff games, nobody will give a shit in the long run. He's winning 74% of the games he starts.

Love your wit and humor my man. Never change. You have some great points in this post
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I also have a physics degree and my intuition, for whatever that's worth, is that a tight spiral would always travel better because the point presents the smallest surface area to the air it's travelling through and hence meets the least resistance.

We really do discuss some weird shit in the off-season lol

 

This video doesn't make the point you made though. It just says that too much wobble is bad. It doesn't claim that a little bit of wobble is better than none, just that Brees throws with remarkably little.

Also, them banging on about Brees being more accurate than Olympic archers is a bit over the top. Let's see how that accuracy fares at the Olympic target distance of 77 yards instead of 20.
 
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