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The Murphy's Law, The Ugly and The Uglier

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
that's partly why our only available adjustments were short quick passing because we couldnt trust our guys to pick up the blitzers and only leave lamar with the one outside blitzer

We literally had instances where we had a TE, a FB, and a RB all pass blocking because they couldn’t trust the OL to pick up the “disguise”

More than a coaching failure
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Roman is Roman. He's not gonna change, and he's not gonna be the OC when we win a Super Bowl next. That's just how it is. His offensive schemes always falter in the playoffs. Against the Bills, we were cramming it down their throats, and what do we do? Go pass heavy when it wasn't working. This is the kind of stupid ass BS that Roman pulls. Let's be honest with ourselves here... he is not a Super Bowl caliber play caller. In fact, it was his play calls at the end of our Super Bowl against the 49ers that cost them the game at the goal line.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
tbf to Roman also... some of those outside screens were Lamar checking into them at the line
This is true, Lamar was checking into these quick strikes, but who implements them…

the OC creates the playbook and all verbiage associated with it, so checks at the line are what the OC put in place for the qb to check into if he sees a certain thing.

so the question now is, were there other checks to call quick slants? Or are the only checks the same ones we saw against the Vikings last week where we hit someone going towards the flat and hope they run with it? Because that’s literally the only checks that I saw last night and not coincidentally they were the same checks we saw against the Vikings
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
One thing I’ll say in regards to the slants, which we still did not run enough of, is that the dolphins were getting their hands up and cutting off throwing lanes, Lamar had to pull down so many of those outside passes because there were pass rushers but then there were blitzers who weren’t going after Lamar but just trying to block throwing lanes. And on a quick seam to andrews where he was wide open, a rusher was in the lane and Lamar had to side arm and the refs robbed us of a catch.

our OL needed to go low on those wide blitzers when we had those routes leaking out towards the flat, that’s another high school coaching thing, when the DL goes up to try to bat passes you make them pay for it, you cut them and tip their big asses over
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
One thing I’ll say in regards to the slants, which we still did not run enough of, is that the dolphins were getting their hands up and cutting off throwing lanes, Lamar had to pull down so many of those outside passes because there were pass rushers but then there were blitzers who weren’t going after Lamar but just trying to block throwing lanes. And on a quick seam to andrews where he was wide open, a rusher was in the lane and Lamar had to side arm and the refs robbed us of a catch.

our OL needed to go low on those wide blitzers when we had those routes leaking out towards the flat, that’s another high school coaching thing, when the DL goes up to try to bat passes you make them pay for it, you cut them and tip their big asses over
I mean nobody should discount that the Dolphins had a great game plan and executed it extremely well. Their defense isn't as bad as people make it seem, and they have a lot of talent. Just inconsistent week to week, which is pretty synonymous with most NFL teams at this point.
That being said, it was the perfect storm of bad execution. No ability for Roman to adjust to the blitz, no ability for the Ravens to run the football effectively (nor did we seemingly try to... 11 carries for 36 yards for our RBs), and the Oline was beaten badly all game long. Dropped passes also.

I'm not going to overreact to one game, because some of the things we saw last night we haven't seen all year long, so I'm not going to say its a tremendous issue. I seriously doubt many NFL teams are going to be as effective using a blueprint of "lets rush 7 every play and make Lamar squirm", because eventually, we'll learn how to beat it and beat it for chunk gains.

The lack of a running game outside of Lamar is the obvious issue that seems to be unsolvable at this point. Some weeks its not terrible, but when the running game gets nothing going, this is what you're left with... Lamar dropping back a ton, and defenses bringing pressure on an Oline that isn't great at holding up to it.

The 3rd down failures are well documented this year, and that has to be addressed and addressed quickly. We're dead money entirely in the playoffs if we can't convert 3rd downs, because it'll only get harder. Lack of a running game may be part of that, because in prior years, it usually took a penalty or some sort of odd play for us not to have like 3rd and 5-6 or better. Could also count on the run game to put you in favorable down/distance. That's not happening this year. We ran 14 third down plays last night, and by my count, 8 of them were at least 9+ yards to go, which means we're supremely ineffective on early downs. Only three third down plays resulted in a first down, two were 5 yards or less, and the third was on a defensive penalty.
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Bell might have done nothing as a runner but damn does he stick his hat in there in pass protection. He picked up multiple free runners throughout the night. In a roundabout way, it could have been so much worse if he wasn’t on the field.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Roman is Roman. He's not gonna change, and he's not gonna be the OC when we win a Super Bowl next. That's just how it is. His offensive schemes always falter in the playoffs. Against the Bills, we were cramming it down their throats, and what do we do? Go pass heavy when it wasn't working. This is the kind of stupid ass BS that Roman pulls. Let's be honest with ourselves here... he is not a Super Bowl caliber play caller. In fact, it was his play calls at the end of our Super Bowl against the 49ers that cost them the game at the goal line.
For me, I'm half writing off whatever issues exist with the offense this year to the lack of a running game, i.e. losing all your backs and not having nearly as an effective run blocking Oline.
Like we practically never run the zone-read, we run practically no outside zones, and when we do, teams are supremely confident that they can stop it, because they really only have to cue on Lamar and not worry about what Freeman or Bell or anybody else is doing, because they don't have enough burst to get outside and make them pay for taking the QB.

My main issue with the Roman criticism is that he's kind of precisely the type of play caller you want for Lamar. I struggle to find names of OC's that I think would do a significantly better job with Lamar in this offense. He's not everybody's cup of tea. Whoever the next OC would be could do things dramatically different, both for the good and the bad. They may come in and install an air-raid offense for all I know, which isn't going to work with Lamar. He's a unique player with unique skills and he's not somebody that every coordinator can magically turn into greatness with play calling alone.

Not suggesting that Roman is Gods-gift to Lamar by any stretch, but as somebody who's been watching this for years, I struggle to find names that would fit the mold significantly better without making drastic changes to the offensive structure. And when you have a top 5 offense, I'm not sure that's necessary.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
For me, I'm half writing off whatever issues exist with the offense this year to the lack of a running game, i.e. losing all your backs and not having nearly as an effective run blocking Oline.
Like we practically never run the zone-read, we run practically no outside zones, and when we do, teams are supremely confident that they can stop it, because they really only have to cue on Lamar and not worry about what Freeman or Bell or anybody else is doing, because they don't have enough burst to get outside and make them pay for taking the QB.

My main issue with the Roman criticism is that he's kind of precisely the type of play caller you want for Lamar. I struggle to find names of OC's that I think would do a significantly better job with Lamar in this offense. He's not everybody's cup of tea. Whoever the next OC would be could do things dramatically different, both for the good and the bad. They may come in and install an air-raid offense for all I know, which isn't going to work with Lamar. He's a unique player with unique skills and he's not somebody that every coordinator can magically turn into greatness with play calling alone.

Not suggesting that Roman is Gods-gift to Lamar by any stretch, but as somebody who's been watching this for years, I struggle to find names that would fit the mold significantly better without making drastic changes to the offensive structure. And when you have a top 5 offense, I'm not sure that's necessary.

Ok but my position remains. We will never win a Super Bowl with Greg Roman at OC. His offensive schemes do not work during the playoffs or in huge games that teams have time to prepare for. I promise that, and you can quote me on it. I'll be happily wrong, trust me.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
We literally had instances where we had a TE, a FB, and a RB all pass blocking because they couldn’t trust the OL to pick up the “disguise”

More than a coaching failure

so many 2 man route combinations - dolphins did what historically wink's done to other teams... which is dictate how they play with the blitz and playing man on the backend and trusting your corners - forcing the ball out quick, speeding up the timing, creating mistakes etc.

the dolphins just executed the perfect wink martindale or (more likely given flores's roots) pats defensive gameplan:
- clog up the interior running game to create 2nd and 3rd and long
- play man on the backend and trust your corners
- cover-0 and cover-1 blitzes sending the safeties over and over and over again to force receivers to stay in and block and still have a man over

that's probably the most man coverage i can remember a team giving us with lamar jackson at QB
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
One thing I’ll say in regards to the slants, which we still did not run enough of, is that the dolphins were getting their hands up and cutting off throwing lanes, Lamar had to pull down so many of those outside passes because there were pass rushers but then there were blitzers who weren’t going after Lamar but just trying to block throwing lanes. And on a quick seam to andrews where he was wide open, a rusher was in the lane and Lamar had to side arm and the refs robbed us of a catch.

our OL needed to go low on those wide blitzers when we had those routes leaking out towards the flat, that’s another high school coaching thing, when the DL goes up to try to bat passes you make them pay for it, you cut them and tip their big asses over

problem with trying to cut those guys is you need to have a blocker there and on at least 2 occasions the guy who tipped the attempted outside pass was a free rusher
 

ChainedBird

Practice Squad
Ok but my position remains. We will never win a Super Bowl with Greg Roman at OC. His offensive schemes do not work during the playoffs or in huge games that teams have time to prepare for. I promise that, and you can quote me on it. I'll be happily wrong, trust me.

I dunno, we're just so damned injured atm. Imagine if we had Stanley, James, Mekari, Cleveland, Dobbins, Edwards, Elliott, Wolfe, MPeters, that would be a hell of a strong team, maybe enough to reach a SB with no other changes. The main problem is injuries not elsewhere.

If we can keep as many guys around as possible and hit with some of our insane number of picks this offseason then we'll be fire next year!
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Ok but my position remains. We will never win a Super Bowl with Greg Roman at OC. His offensive schemes do not work during the playoffs or in huge games that teams have time to prepare for. I promise that, and you can quote me on it. I'll be happily wrong, trust me.

but what tells you that?
that 49ers offence was awesome during the ravens superbowl win... they just started slow and ran into elite joe flacco...
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I dunno, we're just so damned injured atm. Imagine if we had Stanley, James, Mekari, Cleveland, Dobbins, Edwards, Elliott, Wolfe, MPeters, that would be a hell of a strong team, maybe enough to reach a SB with no other changes. The main problem is injuries not elsewhere.

If we can keep as many guys around as possible and hit with some of our insane number of picks this offseason then we'll be fire next year!

yeah i really don't think the scheme's the problem (certainly not on offence) - yes roman had a poor game last night... spoiler alert... so did almost everyone on the offensive side of the ball

you could make some arguments about the defence but also it's been hyper successful since wink took over and it's biggest failings this year really do seem to inordinately fall on the loss of marcus peters
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
so many 2 man route combinations - dolphins did what historically wink's done to other teams... which is dictate how they play with the blitz and playing man on the backend and trusting your corners - forcing the ball out quick, speeding up the timing, creating mistakes etc.

the dolphins just executed the perfect wink martindale or (more likely given flores's roots) pats defensive gameplan:
- clog up the interior running game to create 2nd and 3rd and long
- play man on the backend and trust your corners
- cover-0 and cover-1 blitzes sending the safeties over and over and over again to force receivers to stay in and block and still have a man over

that's probably the most man coverage i can remember a team giving us with lamar jackson at QB

And that’s the thing… execution. They had a plan. We had a plan. They executed theirs better and we see the results.

Yes last night was a coaching failure but it always boggles my mind how players don’t get the blame sometimes. They were just as bad though on offense outside of a select few.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
but what tells you that?
that 49ers offence was awesome during the ravens superbowl win... they just started slow and ran into elite joe flacco...

Because what happened on that last drive at the goal line? His play calls failed. Just like they do every single time when it's crunch time in the playoffs
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Ok but my position remains. We will never win a Super Bowl with Greg Roman at OC. His offensive schemes do not work during the playoffs or in huge games that teams have time to prepare for. I promise that, and you can quote me on it. I'll be happily wrong, trust me.
I mean, this isn't exactly a bold take, given how hard it is for anybody to win a SB.
I don't think Greg Roman will be the reason we don't win a SB.
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
I mean, this isn't exactly a bold take, given how hard it is for anybody to win a SB.
I don't think Greg Roman will be the reason we don't win a SB.

Maybe not the sole reason we don't, but he's definitely a hindrance.
 
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