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Lamar Jackson

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
110%. Thank you

You dragged me into this lol, i was just curious about contract updates


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rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
And if he continues tanking, he's perfectly in the Joe Flacco situation then. Stuck with mediocre QB play
Well Lamar's seasons like this one are on par with Joe's best. So there's a significant ceiling/floor discrepancy between the two.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Unless Lamar wins a Super Bowl next year is the needle really moving that much further away from 40 mil a year? I’d be pumped to have Lamar on the books next year for 23 million and make the deal next off season


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Wouldn't require a SB win. An MVP performance and a long playoff run would do the trick. I'm saying with even current QB play, two years from, QBs in general will cost 10-20% more. A $40M a year QB is a $45M QB two years from now, as long as they don't play terribly, which he's not.

I understand fans don't think $5M a year is a lot, because fans don't pay anything for it. A good businessman isn't going to think that way.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
I think sizzle brings up a fair concern with the Flacco contract. Why not take one additional year to asses Lamar Vs locking yourself in long term? If Lamar wins a super bowl than great , bite the bullet pay him Mahomes money. If he maintains his currently trajectory , great pay him a little more than we would have anyways this off-season. If he continues this odd slump and somehow regresses further, great bullet dodged franchise him or move on


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Move on to what? Lamar is, by a landslide, the best QB to ever put on a Ravens jersey. And that's 25 years, so not really that short of a sample size.

I see plenty of scenarios (in fact I think its the most logical scenario), where "moving" on equates to a worse QB. See the prior two we drafted with higher draft picks.

The only thing I'm a fan of is not giving a Mahomes-level 10 year contract (which is mostly just fiction anyway). I don't expect Lamar to be a starting QB at 35. I'm not certain he makes it must past 30 with his style either. But I have zero concern about giving him a lucrative 4-5 year agreement, being somewhat wrong about it (again understanding that the floor with Lamar is still being super competitive every year), and then moving on 4-5 years from now.

That I'm OK with.
 

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
I don't think he's seeing ghosts. I think he's starting to feel the pressure of being the only playmaker on offense and is forcing things. It's certainly a mental thing but it's the pressure he's putting on himself to do everything right now.

It's so clearly this to me. That's the only explanation for some of these interceptions. He's running for his life and no one consistently makes plays. He's gotta do everything.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Dude what are you going on about? Have you forgotten how succesful Joe was early in his career? Flacco first four seasons
13-6(2008)
10-8
13-5
13-5( 2011, fuck you cundfif)

Lamar’s a beast and on his way to the greatest Ravens Qb, but Flacco won a ton of games early in his career , just as Lamar has. His regression didn’t start until injury.


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joes rookie deal the ravens sported one of the leagues absolute best run games, o-lines, and defenses, and up until 2010 the ravens were very often winning in spite of flacco.

never at any point did flacco carry the ravens or be THE key cog that absolutely made the ravens go, the same way lamar has. the closest joe ever got to that was a 4 game stretch in the playoffs in which the entire team was playing lights out. the defense was getting sacks and forcing turnovers, both bernard pierce and ray rice were playing like studs, that OL was probably the best unit the ravens have ever had for that 4 game stretch.

there was never a point where if you removed joe from the ravens they would completely fall apart, theyd be mediocre but not completely fall off. these ravens would COMPLETELY fall off without lamar.

there is no comparison.
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
joes rookie deal the ravens sported one of the leagues absolute best run games, o-lines, and defenses, and up until 2010 the ravens were very often winning in spite of flacco.

never at any point did flacco carry the ravens or be THE key cog that absolutely made the ravens go, the same way lamar has. the closest joe ever got to that was a 4 game stretch in the playoffs in which the entire team was playing lights out. the defense was getting sacks and forcing turnovers, both bernard pierce and ray rice were playing like studs, that OL was probably the best unit the ravens have ever had for that 4 game stretch.

there was never a point where if you removed joe from the ravens they would completely fall apart, theyd be mediocre but not completely fall off. these ravens would COMPLETELY fall off without lamar.

there is no comparison.

Ok.. No one was comparing Flacco Vs Lamar individual talent. One individual said how quickly we forget the lack of wins before Lamar. Clearly not that case. Why have nonsensical arguments about who had better weapons, who experienced better drafts, who throws a better ball, who carried their team… It’s a waste of time in a team game when both individuals had a ton of support(or at times lack of support)Joe was a great Qb , Lamar is a great Qb, each with different strengths/weakness



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Last edited:

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Wouldn't require a SB win. An MVP performance and a long playoff run would do the trick. I'm saying with even current QB play, two years from, QBs in general will cost 10-20% more. A $40M a year QB is a $45M QB two years from now, as long as they don't play terribly, which he's not.

I understand fans don't think $5M a year is a lot, because fans don't pay anything for it. A good businessman isn't going to think that way.

When the cap raises by 5M to match, I mean I really don’t see a difference there. You have 100M to start, pay a guy 40, you have 60. Cap raises to 105, pay a guy 45, and it’s still 60. Basic math of inflation
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
That’s completely fair, but you won’t need to do a full rebuild if Lamar maintains his current trajectory. We would just pay him a little more next year than we would have this year, while also confirming his recent short comings were an anomaly . The only way we go rebuild is Lamar suffers a major injury or he goes full regression next year. And even then we have the less than ideal franchise tag in case of emergency.

I just like having options , even if it cost Steve a little extra in the long run. Always nice gambling when it’s not your money on the line lol.


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right in your hypothetical, lamar has a shit year and that's enough for us to make a decision on him (or waste money while not making a decision)

even if he does have a shit year, i still think it's unlikely he doesnt get re-signed after that year either - so he's become more expensive, less happy and also you're more worried about him when you pay him at that point

but also that ignores his entire body of work - and the cap still exists

his body of work suggests this is a blip, his age and work ethic suggests he's going to keep on getting better and better, in his worst year as a vet he's carried a decimated team to 8-4 (and counting) despite having a bad month

to me, it doesnt seem feasible that he could have a bad enough 2022 that would make you rethink his long-term future...

so pay him early, save the cap space, set yourself up better for the future with lamar - what more does he need to prove... not sure anyone would have had any issues paying him a massive deal last offseason - dont see why that would be any different this offseason or the offseason after that (or even the one after that) - so pay him now
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Dude what are you going on about? Have you forgotten how succesful Joe was early in his career? Flacco first four seasons
13-6(2008)
10-8
13-5
13-5( 2011, fuck you cundfif)

Lamar’s a beast and on his way to the greatest Ravens Qb, but Flacco won a ton of games early in his career , just as Lamar has. His regression didn’t start until injury.


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wins is not a Qb stat - especially not in the regular season... and even then lamar wins more games than basically anyone in nfl history... there's no comparison

and the manner of play and importance in victory is pretty crucially hidden in those stats - joe was carried to those wins in his rookie year (and especially in the playoffs), lamar came in half-way through his rookie year and took an ailing team to the playoffs and changed the outlook of the franchise - that's a significant difference in impact

joe won us a superbowl, he had a historic run that's going to be difficult for anyone to ever overcome - but he got paid for that 4 game stretch but never played like that again before or after for anything more than an occasional game at a time

lamar has given us 3 and a half years of outstanding play, with historic levels of efficiency, broken records, set records and done the one thing joe never seemed to be able to do: elevate the talent around him

but outside of those 4 amazing games in that 2012 superbowl run, joe has never put together anything like lamar has
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
joes rookie deal the ravens sported one of the leagues absolute best run games, o-lines, and defenses, and up until 2010 the ravens were very often winning in spite of flacco.

never at any point did flacco carry the ravens or be THE key cog that absolutely made the ravens go, the same way lamar has. the closest joe ever got to that was a 4 game stretch in the playoffs in which the entire team was playing lights out. the defense was getting sacks and forcing turnovers, both bernard pierce and ray rice were playing like studs, that OL was probably the best unit the ravens have ever had for that 4 game stretch.

there was never a point where if you removed joe from the ravens they would completely fall apart, theyd be mediocre but not completely fall off. these ravens would COMPLETELY fall off without lamar.

there is no comparison.

that 4 game stretch made us think very odd things about lots of players... not just joe

i loved bernard pierce during that playoff run - we convinced ourselves he could be a lead back... we did the same convincing ourselves that jacoby jones was a real WR too
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Ok.. No one was comparing Flacco Vs Lamar individual talent. One individual said how quickly we forget the lack of wins before Lamar. Clearly not that case. Why have nonsensical arguments about who had better weapons, who experienced better drafts, who throws a better ball, who carried their team… It’s a waste of time in a team game when both individuals had a ton of support(or at times lack of support)Joe was a great Qb , Lamar is a great Qb, each with different strengths/weakness



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joe was an average QB, who sometimes transcended himself and had stretches of elite play that defied belief - he was not a great QB
lamar is a great QB, who is in the middle of a 4 game down period of form

they're operating within completely different paradigms of QB play...
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
When the cap raises by 5M to match, I mean I really don’t see a difference there. You have 100M to start, pay a guy 40, you have 60. Cap raises to 105, pay a guy 45, and it’s still 60. Basic math of inflation

cool - but if you pay him 40 when the cap is 100, you're still paying him 40 when it rises to 105...

the earlier you pay them, the more affordable their deals become
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Ok.. No one was comparing Flacco Vs Lamar individual talent. One individual said how quickly we forget the lack of wins before Lamar. Clearly not that case. Why have nonsensical arguments about who had better weapons, who experienced better drafts, who throws a better ball, who carried their team… It’s a waste of time in a team game when both individuals had a ton of support(or at times lack of support)Joe was a great Qb , Lamar is a great Qb, each with different strengths/weakness



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“Have you forgotten how successful Joe was early in his career?” And then go on to list the teams record in his early years.

you were comparing, I was just responding
 

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
cool - but if you pay him 40 when the cap is 100, you're still paying him 40 when it rises to 105...

the earlier you pay them, the more affordable their deals become
My personal opinion is he won't be paid less than Mahomes either in guaranteed money, length or total contract value. It is entirely possible that they try to tie Lamar down to beyond when the new bargaining agreement is signed with the Union too, after the TV contracts. My sense is they'll scale up his salary as a function of cap, but keep it at the same percentage of assumed cap. He will either get more guaranteed money, longer term contract or more money in total than any other NFL player. He is simply that valuable to the team and the NFL. My sense is it'll get done this off season.

ps: I have a vested interest in my son.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
My personal opinion is he won't be paid less than Mahomes either in guaranteed money, length or total contract value. It is entirely possible that they try to tie Lamar down to beyond when the new bargaining agreement is signed with the Union too, after the TV contracts. My sense is they'll scale up his salary as a function of cap, but keep it at the same percentage of assumed cap. He will either get more guaranteed money, longer term contract or more money in total than any other NFL player. He is simply that valuable to the team and the NFL. My sense is it'll get done this off season.

ps: I have a vested interest in my son.

i doubt he gets the mahomes deal - and partly that's because my guess is that mahomes already wishes he didnt sign the mahomes deal... because josh allen's was better structured to make more money both in the short and long term

i definitely think the josh allen contract is gonna be what lamar wants as a baseline - 100m fully guaranteed at signing, 150m in total guarantees across the contract length, 43m/yr+

ravens probably only want to give a 5 year deal so that they can pro-rate the signing bonus across all 5 years of the contract but if they want to give him a longer deal (e.g. a 6 year extension like allen) they can always put in a roster bonus that triggers in year 2 and leave some bonus money in there - lamar would have to wait a year to get that extra bonus money but given that he's gonna get a metric fuckton straight away anyway he might be amenable to that kind of structure given that the roster bonus money in year 2 would be 100% guaranteed because you couldn't cut lamar even if you wanted to lol

there's all sorts of things that will go into this deal - but i doubt he gets a mahomes length or structure of deal - just doesnt make much sense
 

Ellicottraven

Ravens Ring of Honor
i doubt he gets the mahomes deal - and partly that's because my guess is that mahomes already wishes he didnt sign the mahomes deal... because josh allen's was better structured to make more money both in the short and long term

i definitely think the josh allen contract is gonna be what lamar wants as a baseline - 100m fully guaranteed at signing, 150m in total guarantees across the contract length, 43m/yr+

ravens probably only want to give a 5 year deal so that they can pro-rate the signing bonus across all 5 years of the contract but if they want to give him a longer deal (e.g. a 6 year extension like allen) they can always put in a roster bonus that triggers in year 2 and leave some bonus money in there - lamar would have to wait a year to get that extra bonus money but given that he's gonna get a metric fuckton straight away anyway he might be amenable to that kind of structure given that the roster bonus money in year 2 would be 100% guaranteed because you couldn't cut lamar even if you wanted to lol

there's all sorts of things that will go into this deal - but i doubt he gets a mahomes length or structure of deal - just doesnt make much sense
At least 6-7 years then. I want him here for life till he eclipses Tom Brady's championships without cheating and all by himself.
 
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