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Players You Hope We Don't Draft

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
Devin Bush seems to be a consensus pick.

Let's remind ourselves of that when we pick him :(
I disagree with you on McGovern being a backup level player. Tape suggests that in Roman's scheme he'd be fine. At worst a solid starter, and if you can get that in the third, you take it. In a zone scheme... Yeah he's going to struggle a lot. It'll depend on who drafts him.

Tre Watson I can agree with too.

The WR class is mediocre. I keep saying it, I keep getting chastised for it. Sorry, it's not good. "But it has a lot of #2 WRs". So does every other class for the past decade. Guys who have short shelf lives mostly, will last 5 years at the most, and then will be out of the league. No. Fucking. Thank you. If we have to draft a WR for the sake of Lamar having a target, there's only 5 or 6 names I wouldn't absolutely hate that I think could be good players in the league. But trust me: building the entire corps is a better plan for next year. Truthfully, I'd put up with another year of @Tank making Crabtree memes again over drafting multiple WRs in this class.
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
I disagree with you on McGovern being a backup level player. Tape suggests that in Roman's scheme he'd be fine. At worst a solid starter, and if you can get that in the third, you take it. In a zone scheme... Yeah he's going to struggle a lot. It'll depend on who drafts him.

Tre Watson I can agree with too.

The WR class is mediocre. I keep saying it, I keep getting chastised for it. Sorry, it's not good. "But it has a lot of #2 WRs". So does every other class for the past decade. Guys who have short shelf lives mostly, will last 5 years at the most, and then will be out of the league. No. Fucking. Thank you. If we have to draft a WR for the sake of Lamar having a target, there's only 5 or 6 names I wouldn't absolutely hate that I think could be good players in the league. But trust me: building the entire corps is a better plan for next year. Truthfully, I'd put up with another year of @Tank making Crabtree memes again over drafting multiple WRs in this class.

I actually agree with the WR point. AJ Brown is the only guy that got a round 1 grade from me. As for the rest, I think for a significant portion of them, they're getting overrated because the class as a whole is poor. From my perspective, I'd almost much rather take a chance on one of these late round guys (like a Diontae Johnson type) than reach for guys that are only getting round 2 grades because the draft class as a whole looks pretty poor. I think it's eerily similar to last year - a lot of WRs getting overdrafted because there's not much top end talent there.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
I actually agree with the WR point. AJ Brown is the only guy that got a round 1 grade from me. As for the rest, I think for a significant portion of them, they're getting overrated because the class as a whole is poor. From my perspective, I'd almost much rather take a chance on one of these late round guys (like a Diontae Johnson type) than reach for guys that are only getting round 2 grades because the draft class as a whole looks pretty poor. I think it's eerily similar to last year - a lot of WRs getting overdrafted because there's not much top end talent there.
And even then I have a lot of questions abou Brown's ability to win on the outside. To me, he's a big slot WR. A good one, but a slot guy nonetheless.

Riley Ridley is a guy who could be a good player, but he's never going to be a game breaker. Frankly, the only two guys that can be gamebreakers in this draft are high high high risks. Brown because of his frame(the moment and NFL defensive back gets a good shot at him, he could get flattened with that frame), and DK because of the hands.

Like I said. I'd much rather endure a year of @Tank's crabtree memes and resign him on the cheap for the year than overdraft a WR next year, just for the sake of having a corps. I don't want to here the "we need WRs for Lamar to grow argument" because there's not a lot of good names here. Next year is a different story entirely. You have four or five WRs who could and should go in the first round next year.

Build the trenches this year. The class as a whole is weak, but it's really good in pass rushers and interior offfensive line. Coincidentally our two biggest needs by far. Should we draft A WR? Yes. Having a guy to grow with Lamar isn't the worst idea if it's a Riley Ridley or a JJAW, or a Keelan Doss, or a Wesley.

But I'd take Jerry Tillery, a guy who most people think could go in the second, over any wide receiver in this class. Frankly it's not even close, Tillery could develop into a pro bowl pass rusher at this best, and a Corey Redding type at his worst.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
As I said, I like bush and I think your analysis is kinda off lol. He isn’t a great run defender but he’s stellar in coverage and is great as a blitzer with a feel for sniffing out gaps in the pass pro with great timing.

Not my first choice, but I think he represents a lot of what you want in a modern LB, he’s explosive, instinctive, has great ball skills for a LB and is a natural playmaker and he brings the heat when he tackles despite being smaller. I know for a fact that plenty of players will be available that id prefer, but i would give that pick a genuine golf clap lol

Absolutely agree. I like Bush, but he wouldn't be my first choice.
 
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ThatsMyJoeTerback

Ravens Ring of Honor
Haven't kept up with the draft process so I'm not well-versed in this arena. Is Devin Bush untouchable because of his size? Is he just overrated in general?
 

JAAM

Hall of Famer
All I know is I’ll cry if we don’t get AJ Brown in the 1st. Perfect fit for our offense and we can even trade back a tad.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Haven't kept up with the draft process so I'm not well-versed in this arena. Is Devin Bush untouchable because of his size? Is he just overrated in general?
I really like Devin bush a lot and I can’t for the life of me understand the hatred for him around here. He may be a better rookie than Devin white(emphasis on rookie, bush is the faster reactive player and the more anticipatory of the 2, he should translate immediately, better than white, if by only a small margin)
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
im going to reluctantly take a player off of this list, DK Metcalf.

i still have a lot of concerns with him, some of the main ones being the terrible drops, and the other is how he played against nfl corners in college, greedy williams made a complete asshole out of metcalf and he had him looking like someone who would never sniff the nfl. greedy williams is a player that i like and damn the needs if he was there at 22 i wouldnt mind him(only because you can never have enough dbs and i truly believe this, even at the cost of ignoring needs in the first round) but he isnt some generational talent, just a standard above average nfl man corner, and metcalf, no matter what he did, couldnt get even an inch of separation, nothing he did to release worked, greedy knows he can change directions like an nfl corner so the quick feet at the line didnt bother him the least bit, he didnt panic or hesitate in the slightest, he just kept an eye on metcalfs numbers and ran with him and dictated leverage so he could easily defend any pass that may have went his way, it was UGLY, the browns have a corner that can do this to metcalf with ease, the bengals have one and another who maybe could give him headaches as well, and if the steelers fuck around and land greedy williams then they have one as well. i genuinely worry that an average nfl corner who doesnt panic at choppy feet at the line will just have their way with him, and theres very real precedent for that worry.

that said, ill take him off my list, and here are the pros for that...
lamar was not given many big play opportunities, they held his hand, partly because hes a project and rookie qb built on athletic ability, but also partly because he had fuckall to throw to for big plays, he targeted john brown a few times on deeper balls and because they werent perfectly thrown brown got alligator arms(it happened multiple times, and it pissed me off so bad, i cant believe how under the radar that whole thing went), and i dont trust lamar to throw fades, but one thing i trust the hell out of him to throw is just spot throwing a deep post, i do believe one thing lamar will have is timing and touch, and on some of these deep routes, particularly the deep ones around the hash(away from the inevitable single high safety) its all about putting it in an open spot with enough air under it for the receiver to go get it, and guys like john brown and chris moore can run under it, but what happens when the safety gets in the area and now it becomes even a slight adjustment for the ball? metcalf solves all of those issues, he can go run under it and grab it when its spot thrown, and if the safety arrives he still has a chance.

also, he really shouldve been thrown more slants, he had a shit ton where ta'amu inexplicably didnt even look his way where he couldve taken a slant and rumbled 30+ yards with it, lamar is gonna be looking for EXACTLY that play, because thats basically lamars favorite throw, leading the slant right around the left hash, that and the intermediate skinny post. the only real reason im taking metcalf off this list is because he is a fit and fills a need and does so with spectacular potential, and im RELUCTANTLY removing him because he still scares the shit out of me and honestly has more bust potential than any wr with first round hype, i genuinely think hakeem butler is a safer prospect.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
@Simba I started off sour on A.J. Brown and came full circle on him. He has a really high floor as a big slot and can play a little boundary WR as well. I've seen him win on the outside and make contested catches with players in his face, ie Texas A&M game. He may not be your true vertical thread, but he has good hands and runs pretty decent routes. I wouldn't be upset if the Ravens took him with with their first round pick and I wouldn't look back.

@Lost_In_Translation having a lot of #2 WRs doesn't make a class bad, as a matter of fact it makes it pretty deep. Sure it doesn't have a lot of top WR talent, but that doesn't happen that often. There aren't many classes like the 2014 WR class and supposedly next years. I know you agree with this statement as we have had this conversation in the past and that is you don't need a number 1 WR to in in this league. The majority of teams don't have one and if you have two number twos and a good #3 WR with some nice TE's you can win a lot of games.
 
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Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
@Simba I started off sour on A.J. Brown and came full circle on him. He has a really high floor as a big slot and can play a little boundary WR as well. I've seen him win on the outside and make contested catches with players in his face, ie Texas A&M game. He may not be your true vertical thread, but he has good hands and runs pretty decent routes. I wouldn't be upset if the Ravens took him with with their first round pick and I wouldn't look back.

@Lost_In_Translation having a lot of #2 WRs doesn't make a class bad, as a matter of fact it makes it pretty deep. Sure it doesn't have a lot of top WR talent, but that doesn't happen that often. There aren't many classes like the 2014 WR class and supposedly next years. I know you agree with this statement as we have had this conversation in the past and that is you don't need a number 1 WR to in in this league. The majority of teams don't have one and if you have two number twos and a good #3 WR with some nice TE's you can win a lot of games.
No it doesn’t, it makes it typical. How many times do I have to go over this? After the third round, the class effectively goes into slot WRs and projects that’ll be out of the league in 3 years. If it isn’t a position of strength in this draft it shouldn’t be the primary focus.

I do agree with your statement. Which is why we should wait. We are playing the long game. If we get a WR this draft, it should be a deep threat solely to make the defenses respect the deep ball. If we come out of this draft only getting an Emmanuel Hall, I’ll be okay with that so long as we build up the trenches. Build the corps up next year.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
So. I've done some thinking. Disagree with me if you want... But these are my thoughts.

Eric, if you draft the following players/do the following strategy it will tell me all I need to know. Please don't do the following.

1) Devin Bush- The ILB class as a whole has two good prospects here, and Bush is one of them. I am not denying his talent or ability as a football player, and as usual I feel like @Sami84 is underselling him and his potential value to a team. He's got the potential to be a good WILL LB for the next decade, which even if you don't have an elite player there, has become valuable. I would hate everything this pick stands for though. You have a clean slate, new QB, a chance to craft a new identity, and you go with a fucking inside linebacker. I've been adamant about not taking a WR, but at least WR is a big position of need. Bush may look like an upgrade on paper, but your team as a whole fundamentally doesn't get better. He's not as smart as CJ, not as a good of a communicator as CJ, doesn't improve your pass rush, and doesn't make the defense that much better. Bush is a good talent, but he's not Devin White, who WOULD change the defense. Devin Bush would not be a bad pick from a player perspective, but he would be a TERRIBLE identity pick. If that's the direction the team is moving in, we are completely screwed.

2) Most WRs in Round One. Wait till rounds 3-4. I hope we take them in rounds 3-4, with a far bigger investment coming next season. I've made my point clear time after time. It's not a strength of this draft, this forum has grossly overrated the talent pool here because of the fact that we need a WR. I've done my thinking. There's four WRs in the first round I could see us taking that would actually make some sense to me. DK Metcalf, Deebo Samuel, AJ Brown(even if I think he's slot only, he is a fit here), and JJ Arcega Whiteside. I think all four(and I'm a huge Samuel fan) would be TERRIBLE picks if there was a top tier OG, C, DE, or Edge player. If we trade back into the second and take Deebo Samuel, I'm fine with that. But for my money, those guys, along with Emmanuel Hall, Riley Ridley, Terry McLaurin, Hunter Renfrow, and Antoine Wesley are the best guys in the class to put next to Lamar Jackson.

3) Garrett Bradburry in round one over a G or pass rusher.
@JoeyFlex5. I've done a reevaluation. I was harsh, but still hold strong. I don't want Garrett here, there's better talent.
Roman does ask a C to do a lot, but in the AFC North where he's going to go against some powerhouses, his lack of a consistent anchor scares the everloving crap out of me. You can get away with some of what he did in college vs. overrated prospects like Dexter Lawrence(who I'll get to, believe me). As for your post in another thread, no Sean Payton is better at utilizing his oline to his strengths(are as McVay, Shannahan, McDaniels, and Reich). I think Bradburry would end up being a good player here, but over a guy like Cody Ford, who's a plug and play day one starter at the LG position(and potential day one pro bowler next to Stanley), I'd rather trust Bozeman for a year and draft a center in the third, fourth or fifth. Which there should be plenty of.

4) Dexter Lawrence: Micheal Pierce and Brandon Williams are two top 5 NTs in the league. Pierce is a superstud who should've gone to the pro bowl instead of Williams. I don't see the need for Lawrence. I see legit work ethic concerns with him unlike others(Jerry Tillery has similar concerns about him). Lawrence got worse every year in college. That's a work ethic concern to me.

5) Passing up Jeffery Simmons because of "character concerns". Yeah, if Simmons is on the board, there's maybe only 4 or 5 players I'd rather have over him tape wise. If we take Simmons over anyone not named Lindstrom, Ford, Wilkins, Burns, it will send me into an alcoholic depression(one moreso than I already have). I don't think his character concerns are huge, and I don't care about the torn ACL. He looks like a future perennial all pro in my eyes.

6) Not drafting multiple OL: I never want to see Hurst or Skura on a football field again(for us. Go play for the fucking steelers). Beyond that, a good oline is going to benefit Lamar far more than a good WR corps. The two TEs alone will auto generate a passing attack so long as we have a competent deep threat on the field to force safeties to not stack the box. We need to find a Yanda replacement.

7) Not drafting multiple pass rushers. Interior dline, edge. I don't care. We're going to be a team predicated on running the ball. We have a good secondary. The defense will be elite if you get some pass rushers there. If you can field a defense that can pin it's ears back with an offense that chews clock like Babe Ruth chewed tobacco, you will win a lot of football games. Especially with the secondary.

8) David Montgomery: The tape is great. Does it translate? That's a scary question for me. In most cases, I would agree that speed is overrated, but when you lack acceleration entirely it scares the crap out of me. The NFL is a whole different ball park than college, and while Montgomery has some fantastic balance... That's about it. Most NFL LBs have better closing speed than he does acceleration, he really isn't powerful. He has some nice moves, which will get him by as a rotational back, but he's not the type of back this team needs. He'd be a good player elsewhere, just not here, and I'd rather go get a scat back like a Gaskin.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
@Lost_In_Translation you have an opinion and that is fine, but don't make it like it's fact, because it's not.

1) Bush will not be available at the number 22 because he's a talent. He has awesome cover skills, is a smart player (we don't know if CJ is smarter at this point), but he certainly diagnoses plays quickly. His coaches call him one of the smartest and hardest workers they have coached. Can't remember which coach said that. He is also an excellent blitzer, something that CJ was not good at at all and Wink will know how to use him. Is ILB what I would like at 22. No, it's definitely not, but I certainly wouldn't complain. No question we have bigger needs, but it's hard to say ilb isn't a need because it certainly is one. BTW, I'm not saying you don't think it's a need.

2) You've already stated that we should wait til round 3 and 4 in the draft and also stated that we would most likely be getting a slot receiver in the 4th round. Now I'm not saying we shouldn't draft a slot WR, because we will need one after this season when Snead's contract is over, but we need a boundary WR now. We can't just lean on our current players.

3) Garrett Bradbury will be a stud for any team in the nfl and especially for Roman. Run to the podium if he's at 22 unless you get a good deal to trade back. I agree with @JoeyFlex5 on this one and I've liked Bradbury since before the season ended.

4) Please don't draft Lawrence

5) Totally agree, I'd love to draft Simmons. He's a top 5 at worst top 10 player in this draft. Who cares if he has a torn ACL. Yeah I know the other issue as well but if the team cleared him on this than I'd take him.

6) We will drat multiple OL, but don't expect a lineman in round one. That may not happen (truly depends on who is on the board). This iOL class is very very good and can get one in the third that would be a 2nd round pick in most drafts.

7) We are not going to solve all of our issues this season. We need to let Tim Williams and Bowser play. I'd like to see Bowser play at SAM though. That being said, I don't buy your reasoning on why he is playing edge. It's not Harbaugh, but again that's opinion!

8) David Montgomery's talent will translate to the NFL. I'd love to take him, but we have other needs that are more important at this point. Really depends on how many extra picks we are able to get.

In addition, as much as I want the Ravens to trade back due to the depth of the draft, it's quite possible we may not be able to because most other teams are in the same position. They want to trade back and with more teams trading back, the worst the offers get. It's quite possible we stay at 22.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
@Simba I started off sour on A.J. Brown and came full circle on him. He has a really high floor as a big slot and can play a little boundary WR as well. I've seen him win on the outside and make contested catches with players in his face, ie Texas A&M game. He may not be your true vertical thread, but he has good hands and runs pretty decent routes. I wouldn't be upset if the Ravens took him with with their first round pick and I wouldn't look back.

i was the same - soured on him so much early in the process and he's ended up as my number 3 guy
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
@Simba I started off sour on A.J. Brown and came full circle on him. He has a really high floor as a big slot and can play a little boundary WR as well. I've seen him win on the outside and make contested catches with players in his face, ie Texas A&M game. He may not be your true vertical thread, but he has good hands and runs pretty decent routes. I wouldn't be upset if the Ravens took him with with their first round pick and I wouldn't look back.

I'm not surprised. He's not a perfect prospect by any means, but the lack of a true top dog in this WR class is leading people to overthink a lot of these guys, and I think Brown has been bitten by that the most.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
I'm not surprised. He's not a perfect prospect by any means, but the lack of a true top dog in this WR class is leading people to overthink a lot of these guys, and I think Brown has been bitten by that the most.
I still think he's a big-slot guy. But he does have more value and is way safer than most of these other prospects.

All things considered, if he's the first round pick, there's a lot worse picks you could make.
 

Taze

Practice Squad
Please for the love of god don’t draft a freaking running back in the 1st round, or 2nd. And I’ll be very scared if we draft another raw WR early
 

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
DK Metcalf

Marquise brown - both for injury concerns and metcalf because I do NOT think he is a reliable nfl
wr

Montez Sweat - the athleticism doesn’t convert to the tape, and he’s stiff hipped

Dexter Lawrence - please no nose tackles

Jaylon Ferguson - extremely stiff and labored movements and garbage hand use, if he doesn’t win on a fast jump and bull rush then he does nothing

Parris Campbell - routes are trash, not the least bit impressive as a catcher, Torrey Smith with even less balltrack and attack ability

Nkeal Harry - receivers who absolutely cannot separate in college will not separate in the nfl, not spectacular enough anywhere else to make me disregard the lack of separation
I just want to say that this is hilarious in hindsight.

Our first 2 draft picks are on your “please do not draft” list hahahaha
 
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