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Not entertaining rumors, but discussing possibilities; Jadeveon Clowney

Discussion in 'Ravens Talk' started by JoeyFlex5, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Hall of Famer

    This thread is not for speculating whether we will or wont, or the validity of any rumors we've heard.

    This is purely about potential options, pros and cons, those sorts of shenanigans.

    To me, and extremely positive move, and honestly one of the best moves this team could make, would be to opt for Clowney over Judon. The money that Judon is gonna demand is gonna be absurd, and as much as i like judon, and think hes a really good 3 down defender, hes probably gonna cost damn near as much as clowney, just because NFL contract demands are stupid like that. paying Judon that kind of money would be crippling to this new movement our FO seems to be on, we arent paying guys to keep a core together anymore, and we arent paying guys just because theyre well rounded 3 down players, were clearly after more impact per dollar. If we were to trade a jimmy, and say, a 3rd round pick, and then sign Clowney to a blockbuster deal, that is far more bang for buck imo than keeping jimmy at his cap figure, paying judon what he will demand, and keeping that 3rd.

    on top of that, Judon would CERTAINLY recoup that traded third round pick with a comp, and thats the absolute bottom of the barrel compensation, even if we give, say jimmy and a 2 and 5, thats getting us a 3 for a 2, and shipping off a day 3 pick that we got for a player we never spent a pick on and was never gonna find a spot on the roster. We are looking at potentially giving very little for a franchise changing player. the money ozzie wouldve given to judon, well erics gonna give about 1.5x that to clowney, worth it. give up an aging and oft-injured player who we were gonna cut next year anyway, worth it. and all of the picks sent away will come close to being recouped in some way, worth it.

    young roster, qb on a rookie deal, lots of young talent, the time to strike would be now, and if you ask me whether id pay clowney or judon, its clowney by a mile, even if clowney costs more and would take some picks to bring here, absolutely.

    likely all a moot point, as i dont think its gonna happen, but just laying out some of my thoughts on the situation and why i would like to see it happen.
     
  2. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    I know that its tempting because of his draft profile etc..cause I was there with you on this. But after thinking about it truly I'll pass and I hope Eric does too. The guy wants a max contract and we have alot of young talented guys here. Judon has put in the work and the vets have stamped their approval. We can not give some new comer all our money. Judon deserves his chance in the spot light and so does everyone else that's been here. Anyone can get hurt at any point I rather it be one of our own then some FA acquisition that ties up 100! Million of the cap.
     
  3. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Hall of Famer

    Judon does not deserve a clowney contract or anything close to it. judon can put in the work all he wants but that doesnt make him deserving, jarrett johnson was one of the hardest working ravens ever but we werent about to give him top edge money, because he wasnt worth that. Brandon williams put in the work to go from small school guy to high end NT, but we damn sure regret paying him what we did. Judon should not be re-signed whether we do or dont get a guy like clowney, because he will not be worth what hes gonna be paid.
     
  4. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    Ok..so when he post 10+ sacks I'm sure you'll be praising him and changing your handle to JudonFlex. I guess u also forgot that Clowney was pretty much considered a bust 12 months ago too right? Yea let's give that guy 100 million dollars. Albert Haynsworth anyone?
     
  5. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    It's funny to me that people still follow a guy by his draft spot. If Judon was say a second rounder people be like hes worth it but because he came from no where hes not. Jarret was ok not good and he started! never could get double digit sacks wasnt that good and definitely a product of our system and Rex. Judon has much more upside stop kidding yourself. If he had Mercilus and freaking Watt taking countless double teams I'd say his career would look drastically different.
     
  6. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    Also I never said Judon deserves 100 million dollar contract. I dont think anyone does in the entire league.
     
  7. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Hall of Famer

    @A1A

    This has nothing to do with clowney being a top pick, and you’re bashing Clowney for not hitting double digits but neither has judon and judon isn’t ranking in elite categories in pressures, TFLs, and run defense like clowney is, and isn’t the absolute monster of a freak athlete that clowney is. Also, clowney had bust talk after his rookie year was shortened by an injury and he struggled to return from it in year 2, he has made the pro bowl 3 straight years since and has been on the uptick every year and has been maybe the leagues most devastating run defender on the edge over that stretch while also putting up solid sack numbers but much more impressive pressure percentages, and has been schemed with a lot of interior rushes because watt and mercilus are there, mercilus being purely an edge guy and watt being more of an edge than a DT, they can’t takr clowneys talent off the field so he is rushed inside A LOT and has been devastating from all over the front seven generating pressure from less advantageous spots.

    Secondly, Jarrett Johnson did start and was a quality player, he was not a system product either and idk where that even comes from, he was a physical and fundamentally strong edge setter and sure tackler with a small bit of pass rush ability, judons upside is really not much more than Jarrett Johnson, he lacks the explosiveness to be a top end pass rusher, and he still does boneheaded shit. All that said, I’m a judon fan, pretty big one, but I’m not down with paying him top of the market money which he will get.

    You can not compare clowney and Judon, they are not in the same universe, not even close. Clowney isn’t quite Mack or miller, but he’s top end of tier 2 with the likes of Bosa, Garrett, Ingram, and Lawrence.

    And again, why the hell are you always so combative? I agreed that I wouldn’t respond to you anymore because of it but since you comment on my thread I need to respond. Took one post to remind me why I stopped bothering with you on here lol
     
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  8. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    Weren't u clamoring for McCoy too?
     
  9. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    Sounds like u want popular names only and dont really have any loyalty to Raven players at all.
     
  10. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Hall of Famer

    I watched Ozzie dismantle this team and saw the effect of paying big money to average players year after year, we valued run stuffing way too much to the point that we sacrificed coverage and pass rush, schemes and philosophies were ancient, the ravens went from SB winner to 5-11 in 2 years and became the most boring team in the league for 5 years straight, because we were overpaying guys and drafting guys who lacked modern nfl star traits.

    So yeah, I have little loyalty to an edge defender who has average at best explosiveness and is far from a great pass rusher, who’s gonna demand TOP dollar. I didn’t see you clamoring for Za’Darius Smith, where’s your loyalty?? He put in the work!
     
  11. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Hall of Famer

    What’s your point? I want any good player that will help us contend I really don’t see what you’re getting at
     
  12. RL52TheGreatest

    RL52TheGreatest Pro Bowler

    Clowney hasn't had the crazy numbers yet because the Texans scheme their entire defense around Watt. I think if we were to get Clowney then Wink would be able to "unleash" him, so to speak, and he would start to put up those double digit sack numbers.

    Judon, on the other hand, is not someone who I would ever trust to reach double digit sacks. I like Judon and think he's been a good player for us, but he's also disappeared in way too many games for us (especially in the first half of a season). Judon is likely going to command a huge salary after this year as well, but unless he balls out this year then I have serious doubts on if he's worth it.

    Clowney
    Pros: Elite run defender, potential to put up huge sack numbers in the right scheme
    Cons: Going to command top dollar

    Judon
    Pros: Solid three down player, potential for huge sack numbers if he can put it all together for a full season
    Cons: Hasn't shown to be elite at anything yet, disappears in games, also going to command a hefty payday
     
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  13. A1A

    A1A Practice Squad

    One had to go and I agree with Eric on that one. Also I never said JJ didnt start I said he did and didnt put up above average numbers. He was a dime a dozen player. Judon has actual upside.
     
  14. JoeyFlex5

    JoeyFlex5 Hall of Famer

    Judons upside is not much. It’s not like Judon is some explosive guy who needed to refine his game, he was already pretty well refined when coming in, he had good physicality at the point, solid bend and disengage, and has a fair share of heads up moments, but he is probably gonna be the nfls second highest paid edge defender next year, with clowney being the first, and if we’re paying Matt Judon the second biggest figure at his position when we could’ve had clowney for maybe 10% more, we would be idiots.

    You are overrating Judon a lot and underrating clowney even more, and you’re doing it purely because of numbers(which you’ve been inaccurate on too btw, considering you thought 2018 was his first successful season).

    Watch him play and apply some context if you really think he and Judon are comparable just because clowney has 2 more sacks per year than Judon
     
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  15. RL52TheGreatest

    RL52TheGreatest Pro Bowler

    Clowney is also one year younger than Judon. Might not seem like much, but it's another factor to consider when deciding which one deserves the payday.
     
  16. Grim

    Grim MVP

    I wasn’t a fan of Clowney coming out of the draft and felt like he was overhyped due to that hit he laid down; however, I would be OK with bringing him here depending on compensation. If we could get Clowney without surrendering a 3rd or higher I would do it. If it’s Jimmy Smith & a 4th then I’m good with that deal.
     
  17. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Pro Bowler


    Loyalty is great but keep it real. If Judon commands top dollar and Clowney is on the table for just a little more, are you paying Judon?
     
  18. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Pro Bowler

    Last 3 years

    Judon has 19 sacks
    Jadeveon has 24.5 sacks

    59 QB hits for Jadeveon
    49 QB hits Judon

    Clowney has more mileage on him because he has been in the league alittle longer and has been plagued with injuries. Judon did not start a single game his first year.

    Wanted to throw that out there for some context. Even with the injuries, those are the numbers Clowney puts up. Imagine if he was healthy? He is also alittle younger than Judon.
     
  19. cdp

    cdp Pro Bowler

    I'm not opposed to signing either Judon or Clowney. Right player right price. The texans don't have a GM right now and I doubt O'Brien really knows what he's doing, you can't be a HC and a GM simultaneously (except you're Belichick).
     
  20. JAAM

    JAAM Pro Bowler

    Yes to Clowney at all costs. Look at the firepower now in our division. We can’t cover Odell, Green and JuJu forever if the pass rush isn’t there. You take full advantage of a QB on a rookie deal. Getting Clowney would absolutely put our defense over the top, especially if we wouldn’t have to package Jimmy (which I’m okay with dealing). I can’t even fathom Clowney in a Wink-ran defense. Good lord.
     
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