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Scouting

SepticeyePoe

Hall of Famer
I already posted a version of this thread and have received some good advice, but I'm sure there are other people who could benefit from a thread like this.

So basically this is a place to share tips and advice or ask questions when scouting the different positions.
 

Jacquouille

Ravens Ring of Honor
Supporter
My main tip when scouting a RB is to not look at the RB, but the OL, the holes they create and see what he does with it, how he follows his blocks etc...

When looking at a CB, you can hear a lot of fancy words about technique and all, but just see if he can flat out cover. If he turns around nicely and stick to his guy, if he has the instincts to play with the QB when he can, and if he can live in any scheme. Those are the main stuff, if you watch a CB for the first time start with that, the rest will follow. (To make my point, the rookie CB that had the best success in 2016 were Young, Ramsey, Bradberry and Robinson, and none of them was seen as NFL Ready technique-wise, so don't get too caught up in that).

For the ED, it's a combination of stuff. You have several archetypes of ED (mainly the fast/raw guy à la Leonard Floyd, Noah Spence, Tyus Bowser, McKinley or the slower but strong and savvy guy à la Bosa, Barnett, TJ Watt if you want). Scouting an ED is a lot about comparing the player with those archetypes, where does he rank in the hierarchy? The main trait that you want is to see the guy win in as many ways as possible. The further he is from a One-trick pony, the more impact he'll be able to have early in his career.

Those are the best advices I can give for a guy who's starting.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
My favorite position group to watch is edge rusher, and when I watch them I look for these main things:

Initiating the play: does he have a despicable burst ie. Tim Williams or reddick, or does he win the first step regardless using timing, anticipation, and proper angling and positioning,like a Derek Barnett or joey bosa.

Setting up the engagement: can they get the upper hand by positioning themselves to their advantage? Can they anticipate the depth of the qbs drop and play accordingly? Long strides to eat up ground on deep drops and get to the OTs outside shoulder, light feet and preparing to cutback or punch to work the inside on deep drops. If you're a speed guy can you get to a position to take on half of the tackle so you don't get overpowered? If you're a brute can you position yourself to at least threaten the edge?

Engaging: does he engage with purpose, Charles Harris for instance used a spin as an engaging move often, which isn't even a thing, he would do it too early and give the blocker time to react, then guys like Barnett would approach very low and use his length and power to keep nagging that outside shoulder to keep the blocker staggered and create a phone booth situation, Consistently forcing a backpedal and/or a turn, keeping the blocker from ever squaring up by shortening his lane and forcing the tackle to turn and wrap and grab was something Barnett was masterful at. Really if you wanna know how to spot edge rush technique, watch Barnett put on a clinic every single game, it's beautiful

Disengaging: the most important part imo. Balance, lean, bend, and general nastiness, this is what separates athletes on the edge from real edge rushers. Again on Barnett, best bend I've ever seen, he gets at such a ridiculous angle when he extends that inside arm and then BOOM dips the shoulder and flattens the edge. The year prior I was saying joey bosa had the best overall disengaging I had ever seen, this is where the violence comes in, his swim move sometimes came with so much inertia you couldn't stop him even with a blatant hold, he had a way with bringing guys in close, making them stumble, and then violently ripping them off to the side, he worked a solid underhook around the edge as well. Tarell basham is another guy this year who disengaged well, he had a knack for pulling guys in close and winning with a quick bench press. Then you have the finesse disengagements, 2 of the best this year happen to be ravens, Tim Williams and tyus bowser both had an extra gear at the arc of the rush, they bring a nice explosive side hop and give themselves room to bend the edge, Tim has a lightning fast spin move that he uses very efficiently.

Pursuit/closing: where Tim edges out bowser, bowser often gets sloppy in the closing moments of the rush, he breaks down in his fundamentals and doesn't FINISH the disengage at times, getting clipped at the last second, williams on the other hand , once given a lane, its over, he gets that head of steam and nobody is knocking him from his path, and brings the heat when he makes contact. Charles Harris wasn't the best finisher either, he lacked the balance to consistently come out of a bend, he was often seen stumbling Into the pocket after an excellent speed rush and decent bend, joey bosa had this problem as well, he was seen faceplanting pretty often because he came out of his bend and his bullrush at too extreme of a lean and didn't adjust before the pursuit.

*deep breath*

Hope that made sense, although I doubt it. Makes perfect sense in my head lol
 

Sledge Hammer

Pro Bowler
My favorite position group to watch is edge rusher, and when I watch them I look for these main things:

Initiating the play: does he have a despicable burst ie. Tim Williams or reddick, or does he win the first step regardless using timing, anticipation, and proper angling and positioning,like a Derek Barnett or joey bosa.

Setting up the engagement: can they get the upper hand by positioning themselves to their advantage? Can they anticipate the depth of the qbs drop and play accordingly? Long strides to eat up ground on deep drops and get to the OTs outside shoulder, light feet and preparing to cutback or punch to work the inside on deep drops. If you're a speed guy can you get to a position to take on half of the tackle so you don't get overpowered? If you're a brute can you position yourself to at least threaten the edge?

Engaging: does he engage with purpose, Charles Harris for instance used a spin as an engaging move often, which isn't even a thing, he would do it too early and give the blocker time to react, then guys like Barnett would approach very low and use his length and power to keep nagging that outside shoulder to keep the blocker staggered and create a phone booth situation, Consistently forcing a backpedal and/or a turn, keeping the blocker from ever squaring up by shortening his lane and forcing the tackle to turn and wrap and grab was something Barnett was masterful at. Really if you wanna know how to spot edge rush technique, watch Barnett put on a clinic every single game, it's beautiful

Disengaging: the most important part imo. Balance, lean, bend, and general nastiness, this is what separates athletes on the edge from real edge rushers. Again on Barnett, best bend I've ever seen, he gets at such a ridiculous angle when he extends that inside arm and then BOOM dips the shoulder and flattens the edge. The year prior I was saying joey bosa had the best overall disengaging I had ever seen, this is where the violence comes in, his swim move sometimes came with so much inertia you couldn't stop him even with a blatant hold, he had a way with bringing guys in close, making them stumble, and then violently ripping them off to the side, he worked a solid underhook around the edge as well. Tarell basham is another guy this year who disengaged well, he had a knack for pulling guys in close and winning with a quick bench press. Then you have the finesse disengagements, 2 of the best this year happen to be ravens, Tim Williams and tyus bowser both had an extra gear at the arc of the rush, they bring a nice explosive side hop and give themselves room to bend the edge, Tim has a lightning fast spin move that he uses very efficiently.

Pursuit/closing: where Tim edges out bowser, bowser often gets sloppy in the closing moments of the rush, he breaks down in his fundamentals and doesn't FINISH the disengage at times, getting clipped at the last second, williams on the other hand , once given a lane, its over, he gets that head of steam and nobody is knocking him from his path, and brings the heat when he makes contact. Charles Harris wasn't the best finisher either, he lacked the balance to consistently come out of a bend, he was often seen stumbling Into the pocket after an excellent speed rush and decent bend, joey bosa had this problem as well, he was seen faceplanting pretty often because he came out of his bend and his bullrush at too extreme of a lean and didn't adjust before the pursuit.

*deep breath*

Hope that made sense, although I doubt it. Makes perfect sense in my head lol


That is pretty educational dude. Kinda detailed lol
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Anybody can give advice for QB Scouting?

i always find there's a lot of hot air around scouting qbs - the things i look for are mechanics: so looking at an efficient and effective delivery as well as good footwork (that's my biggest thing), arm-strength is an easy thing to notice but is important in the sense that i dont need a qb to have a cannon but i need them to be able to make outside throws and be a legitimate factor threatening the big play, poise and pocket presence: the ability to work through progressions and run a huddle (if their offence calls for that) and decision-making including knowing when to get rid of the ball

- this is just my personal preference but im not too worried about making plays outside of the pocket in college especially if that's their first thought as a qb - using their legs is not high up on my list when scouting outside of footwork
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
id say mobility is incredibly important but im talking about pocket movement rather than running ability
Well it's really the last thing I look for. Its a nice thing if you have it, and an assett but most QBs today are fairly mobile and can get the job done manuvering around the pocket. It's why I prioritize it last. If you can solely beat teams with your arm that's the #1 priority.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Well it's really the last thing I look for. Its a nice thing if you have it, and an assett but most QBs today are fairly mobile and can get the job done manuvering around the pocket. It's why I prioritize it last. If you can solely beat teams with your arm that's the #1 priority.
im talking about the difference between derek carr and say tom savage i mean - neither would be described as runners but derek carr moves around the pocket and finds the soft spot and buys more time with small movements and by being light on his feet, savage is a statue and it's one of the reasons he got killed
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
im talking about the difference between derek carr and say tom savage i mean - neither would be described as runners but derek carr moves around the pocket and finds the soft spot and buys more time with small movements and by being light on his feet, savage is a statue and it's one of the reasons he got killed
Yes. That's an obvious liability but most QBs today can move around a pocket. At least the ones that go higher.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
but that's my point - this is about scouting - pocket mobility is a big indicator of who has the ability to be a starter in the nfl
At least in my book that goes along with pocket presence then. So that should be phrased as "pocket ability". Sorry if I didn't make it clear. Also doesn't help when QBs play with a clock in their heads. Mobility(I should have elaborated) is then ability to take off).
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
in which case id pretty much agree with your list in that order too
It's a big reason why rosen is my top QB for this team. He's mechanically sound, has a high football IQ, has a gun for an arm, and has pretty good pocket presence. I mean, UCLA's oline never really lets him have a pocket.
 

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
im with you - he's my number 1 player for next year i think - ahead of other positions and sam darnold
Darnold is my #1 QB overall(his mechanics are unorthodox but appear to be effective). Rosen for us, is deadly accurate on the short throw, and has the arm to go 65+ yards downfield whenever and can throw those passes on a line with touch.

If we are as bad as the detractors(2-14) suggest, then Rosen is our guy. And Flacco would honestly be the perfect guy to mentor him. Not only do I think this would light a fire under Flacco's ass, but Rosen is pretty similar to Joe(when Joe is on his A-game)
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Darnold is my #1 QB overall(his mechanics are unorthodox but appear to be effective). Rosen for us, is deadly accurate on the short throw, and has the arm to go 65+ yards downfield whenever and can throw those passes on a line with touch.

If we are as bad as the detractors(2-14) suggest, then Rosen is our guy. And Flacco would honestly be the perfect guy to mentor him. Not only do I think this would light a fire under Flacco's ass, but Rosen is pretty similar to Joe(when Joe is on his A-game)

that's kinda what i mean - i never really assess in terms of pure talent i assess with the ravens in mind while still trying to maintain a bpa overall view - in that sense id take rosen over darnold
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Anybody can give advice for QB Scouting?
I know jack shit about qb scouting, I've never been slightly interested in scouting qbs til now and now I'm tryna learn some nuances. I watched some josh Allen and mason rudolph tape so far this year
 
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