Signings, Cuts, Trades

[Truth]

I know that we'd likely expect to retain Ngakoue. But if I could have a pass rusher from the FA class that would command a similar salary, I'd love to have someone like Carl Lawson. The sack numbers weren't remotely gaudy, which could help the affordability, but there were so many beats off of the first move on tape, and a variety of moves. Impressive speed bullrush to boot.

 

[cdp]

That's what I expected. Scheme and execution at an all-time low.

Which grades are you referring to? Pure receiving grade from pff?

Receiving grades:
Boykin: 58.5 104th/115 qualifying WRs
Hollywood 74.6 42nd/115
Duvernay 60.2 98th/115
Snead 69.2 62nd/115
Andrews 77. 2 9th/51
Boyle 65.8
Dobbins 47.9 55th/65
Edwards 60.3 31st/65

 

[rossihunter2]

I know that we'd likely expect to retain Ngakoue. But if I could have a pass rusher from the FA class that would command a similar salary, I'd love to have someone like Carl Lawson. The sack numbers weren't remotely gaudy, which could help the affordability, but there were so many beats off of the first move on tape, and a variety of moves. Impressive speed bullrush to boot.

was an absolute monster in college - even with his injury issues and his iffy edge setting it was amazing how late in the draft he went - he and tim williams were both guys i absolutely loved in that class - thought they both had 1st round talent as edge rushers - really liked derek barnett too (but he was obviously always going to be a 1st rounder)

 

[rossihunter2]

Boykin: 58.5 104th/115 qualifying WRs
Hollywood 74.6 42nd/115
Duvernay 60.2 98th/115
Snead 69.2 62nd/115
Andrews 77. 2 9th/51
Boyle 65.8
Dobbins 47.9 55th/65
Edwards 60.3 31st/65

ooft that's really ugly

we have to get lamar some talented help beyond andrews and hollywood - i wasnt expecting duvernay to be good vs man in year 1 because that's just not what he was on his tape in college but to see boykin there is pretty dreadful that's the starter/3rd receiver in our offence right now...

 

[BoredMarine13]

Pretty easy to do actually... your entire offense is basically on rookie contracts.

Lamar, Andrews, Hollywood, pretty much the entire Oline (Stanley just signed his extension this year), Dobbins, Edwards. That's your QB, your entire Oline, your two best pass catchers, and your top 2 RBs... all on cheap or rookie contracts. That doesn't happen very often.

In 2-3 years, it'll be entirely flipped. Stanley has a huge contract. Lamar will have one. Either Andrews or Brown will get one (possibly both, but I doubt it), and you'll have decisions on the Oline with guys like Bozeman, who I think have earned decent money.

Meanwhile, two years from now, on defense, its basically Marlon and maybe Peters as expensive players. Campbell and Williams will be gone, you won't have a single linebacker on the roster making more than like Queen makes, your safeties will still be relatively cheap.

We will be flipping the script soon. We will be draft heavy on defense by the time we hit 2022-2023, and the offense will have a lot more of the spend and will get a lot less of the draft resources because of it.

It’s not the coordinator they are coming for it’s the change in offensive philosophy. If we transition to a more balanced or even pass heavy attack FAs maybe more willing to come on a reduced short term deal. The thought process being
1. A team that is a winner in their championship window.
2. Higher volume of targets , upping their value next to round in FA
3. Guaranteed money upfront with little to no long term commitment


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[JAAM]

"The Ravens' receiving group, including the tight ends and whoever else releases for a pass, has a big problem beating man coverage. Against single coverage, the team earned a 67.7 receiving grade during the 2020 regular season — last in the league. Over the past three regular seasons, Baltimore again ranks dead last."

WOOF.

But let’s not pay for a top guy, and instead pick up north of 30 bandaids and select projects that will be out of Baltimore before their rookie deal is over. Poor Lamar.

Edit - this isn’t directed at you, Truth.

 

[Truth]

was an absolute monster in college - even with his injury issues and his iffy edge setting it was amazing how late in the draft he went - he and tim williams were both guys i absolutely loved in that class - thought they both had 1st round talent as edge rushers - really liked derek barnett too (but he was obviously always going to be a 1st rounder)

For real. He's still about middle-of-the-pack in setting the edge but he's far better as a pass rusher than people realize. I liked Williams too. Shame that he never truly panned out for us.

 

[BoredMarine13]

But let’s not pay for a top guy, and instead pick up north of 30 bandaids and select projects that will be out of Baltimore before their rookie deal is over. Poor Lamar.

Edit - this isn’t directed at you, Truth.

No idea that guys were that bad at dealing man coverage. We’re all over hear screaming Lamar has to make them pay for stacking the box but our guys can’t win 1v1 to save their lives


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[JAAM]

No idea that guys were that bad at dealing man coverage. We’re all over hear screaming Lamar has to make them pay for stacking the box but our guys can’t win 1v1 to save their lives


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Exactly. So what do you do when the scheme isn’t working and the personnel is awful?

 

[Davesta]

I know that we'd likely expect to retain Ngakoue. But if I could have a pass rusher from the FA class that would command a similar salary, I'd love to have someone like Carl Lawson. The sack numbers weren't remotely gaudy, which could help the affordability, but there were so many beats off of the first move on tape, and a variety of moves. Impressive speed bullrush to boot.

Isn’t injuries his biggest concern?

Spotrac has Lawson projected to get a three-year deal worth 8.8 million dollars a year in free agency. Not too bad if the injury bug is behind him and he holds up.

Side note: He’s a big anime fan. So that’s a cool dude in my book!

 

[Truth]

But let’s not pay for a top guy, and instead pick up north of 30 bandaids and select projects that will be out of Baltimore before their rookie deal is over. Poor Lamar.

Edit - this isn’t directed at you, Truth.

No worries at all. I figured as much. And I'm with you. Get me a Kenny Golladay, Allen Robinson II, or something of the sort.

 

[Truth]

Isn’t injuries his biggest concern?

Spotrac has Lawson projected to get a three-year deal worth 8.8 million dollars a year in free agency. Not too bad if the injury bug is behind him and he holds up.

Side note: He’s a big anime fan. So that’s a cool dude in my book!

Yep. And his role has been somewhat situational, but he did put up about 750 snaps this year, which was roughly 80 more than Judon. Had no idea about the anime fandom. That's dope! Bring that boy in.

 

[organizedchaos21]

I wouldn't say that's 100% Ngakoue's fault. They got to the line fast quite often, limiting opportunities for substitutions. One of the drawbacks of our D and the heavy rotations we use.

I agree with half of this. IMO, the reason Ngakoue's snaps are so low is the Ravens desire to rotate their front six (Queen excluded). More on this in a second.

It doesn't look like the Bills hurry-up caused too many sub issues (outside of the early timeout). The Bills came to the line 57 times for a play (56 snaps + 1 NZI). 10 of those opened new drives, so subbing is "free." On the other 47, BAL was able to sub 25 times. Until the final drive, there were never more than 3 plays in a row with the same personnel on D (and even those were relatively rare).

By drive (first play removed):
1 - BAL subbed on 2/3 plays
2 - BAL subbed on 1/4 plays
3 - BAL subbed on 2/5 plays
4 - BAL subbed on 2/4 plays
5 - BAL subbed on 3/5 plays
6 - kneeldown (1 play drive)
7 - BAL subbed on 7/10 plays (TD drive)
8 - BAL subbed on 6/8 plays
9 - BAL subbed on 1/2 plays
10 - BAL subbed on 1/6 plays

I would have to check to be sure, but I expect this substitution pattern is in line with their typical pattern, especially once we consider that the Bills practically never changed personnel group (their only change was rarely switching from 11 to 10 and back until the final drive).

 

[organizedchaos21]

As for Ngakoue specifically, the Ravens appeared to want to rotate their OLBs roughly evenly, with a slight emphasis on Judon and Ngakoue over McPhee/Bowser, and all four getting preference over Ward. For the first eight drives of the game, Ngakoue played two drives on, one drive off. If we look at the numbers while the game was still competitive (through the Bills TD drive, the game was essentially over the next time they snapped the ball on offense), here's what we see:

38 snaps total (includes 1 kneel).
-Judon had taken 23 snaps (includes kneel)
-Ngakoue had taken 19 snaps (no kneel)
-Bowser had taken 17 snaps (no kneel)
-McPhee had taken 17 snaps (includes kneel)
-Ward had taken 9 snaps (no kneel)

From the eighth drive on (18 snaps), the Ravens largely played Judon (16) and McPhee (15), including those two playing the final 11 snaps. Ngakoue took only 1 snap here. That might have been the Ravens expecting BUF to run (they didn't right away), or he may have had an injury issue (old injury tightened up or new injury; his final snap came at (Q4, 09:22) if anyone wants to take a look).

Basically, I know it looks like Ngakoue was shorted snaps, but I think that conclusion ignores some of the surrounding evidence. The Ravens just weren't playing Ngakoue once they expected Buffalo to try to run out the clock (even though BUF continued passing on two of those three drives).

 

[JAAM]

Yannick is staying lol. I’d bet money for the same with Bowser. Judon is gone. Like I’ve said in the past, give Yannick a full offseason in Baltimore and he’ll get double digit sacks next season. EDC doesn’t trade a coveted pick just to let that player leave the next season.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It’s not the coordinator they are coming for it’s the change in offensive philosophy. If we transition to a more balanced or even pass heavy attack FAs maybe more willing to come on a reduced short term deal. The thought process being
1. A team that is a winner in their championship window.
2. Higher volume of targets , upping their value next to round in FA
3. Guaranteed money upfront with little to no long term commitment


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The kinds of receivers that are going to come here really aren't going to be focused on the next round of FA. Allen Robinson will be 28 this year. By the time whatever deal he signs next is done, he'll be in his 30s. Nobody will be giving him top dollar at that point. This contract will be his last "big" contract. So he, and most of the others who will be available, will be looking for a combination of a) who pays the most and/or guarantees the most money and b) the best chances to win.

People can talk about other FAs if they want. I have zero expectation that Godwin or Golladay will ever hit the FA market. Tampa has more than enough cap space to retain Godwin in whatever fashion they choose, and I highly doubt Detroit is going to let both Golladay and Jones walk out the door. Especially if they opt to make one more run with Stafford.

 

[rossihunter2]

As for Ngakoue specifically, the Ravens appeared to want to rotate their OLBs roughly evenly, with a slight emphasis on Judon and Ngakoue over McPhee/Bowser, and all four getting preference over Ward. For the first eight drives of the game, Ngakoue played two drives on, one drive off. If we look at the numbers while the game was still competitive (through the Bills TD drive, the game was essentially over the next time they snapped the ball on offense), here's what we see:

38 snaps total (includes 1 kneel).
-Judon had taken 23 snaps (includes kneel)
-Ngakoue had taken 19 snaps (no kneel)
-Bowser had taken 17 snaps (no kneel)
-McPhee had taken 17 snaps (includes kneel)
-Ward had taken 9 snaps (no kneel)

From the eighth drive on (18 snaps), the Ravens largely played Judon (16) and McPhee (15), including those two playing the final 11 snaps. Ngakoue took only 1 snap here. That might have been the Ravens expecting BUF to run (they didn't right away), or he may have had an injury issue (old injury tightened up or new injury; his final snap came at (Q4, 09:22) if anyone wants to take a look).

Basically, I know it looks like Ngakoue was shorted snaps, but I think that conclusion ignores some of the surrounding evidence. The Ravens just weren't playing Ngakoue once they expected Buffalo to try to run out the clock (even though BUF continued passing on two of those three drives).

any thoughts as to why brandon williams led the DL in snaps given the rampant passing we faced?

 

[gtalk12]

Yep. And his role has been somewhat situational, but he did put up about 750 snaps this year, which was roughly 80 more than Judon. Had no idea about the anime fandom. That's dope! Bring that boy in.

Oh we like anime here

 

[organizedchaos21]

any thoughts as to why brandon williams led the DL in snaps given the rampant passing we faced?

Looks like a similar story to me. Pretty even usage across the board (at least for Campbell/Williams/Wolfe, Mad got short-shifted). Williams jumps ahead of everyone in snap count by playing all 6 snaps on the final drive (Wolfe and Campbell 3 each). Similar rotation style, at least to start the game (Williams+Campbell, Wolfe+Mad). Even looking at it by down, the top 3 had very similar usage profiles:

1st Down (26 total):
Williams - 16
Wolfe - 15
Campbell - 13
Madubuike - 13

2nd Down (17 total):
Williams - 11
Campbell - 10
Wolfe - 8
Madubuike - 6

3rd Down (13 total):
Williams - 7
Campbell - 7
Wolfe - 7
Madubuike - 5

I agree I'd have liked to have seen more of Campbell/Wolfe than Williams, especially as BUF's offensive strategy became clear.

A couple of notes: especially for DL, but also for OLB, this doesn't take into account alignment, just whether they were on the field, so there could certainly be some usage strategy that I'm missing. And for DL in particular, Mad+Williams+Wolfe were all on the field for all 4 kneels (Campbell none), so I could make an argument that Campbell+Williams were the most used DL (and those two were also the duo who started the game together).

 

[rossihunter2]

Looks like a similar story to me. Pretty even usage across the board (at least for Campbell/Williams/Wolfe, Mad got short-shifted). Williams jumps ahead of everyone in snap count by playing all 6 snaps on the final drive (Wolfe and Campbell 3 each). Similar rotation style, at least to start the game (Williams+Campbell, Wolfe+Mad). Even looking at it by down, the top 3 had very similar usage profiles:

1st Down (26 total):
Williams - 16
Wolfe - 15
Campbell - 13
Madubuike - 13

2nd Down (17 total):
Williams - 11
Campbell - 10
Wolfe - 8
Madubuike - 6

3rd Down (13 total):
Williams - 7
Campbell - 7
Wolfe - 7
Madubuike - 5

I agree I'd have liked to have seen more of Campbell/Wolfe than Williams, especially as BUF's offensive strategy became clear.

A couple of notes: especially for DL, but also for OLB, this doesn't take into account alignment, just whether they were on the field, so there could certainly be some usage strategy that I'm missing. And for DL in particular, Mad+Williams+Wolfe were all on the field for all 4 kneels (Campbell none), so I could make an argument that Campbell+Williams were the most used DL (and those two were also the duo who started the game together).

i remember madubuike left the game with an injury at one point - could that have impacted brandon williams's totals too maybe?