Signings, Cuts, Trades

[drjohnnyfever]

I just can't see them trading OBJr at this point. He's cheap for this coming season and unless something were to happen in the draft itself, where a player drops that we could slide right in to RT as a starter, why would you take your bookend RT out of an OFF that is seeking stability and growth this offseason? The OFF has enough on it's plate without creating a potential hole in a very capable unit. I'll hate to see him walk next year, if he does, but honestly, while he might want to play LT, I think he really wants to be here. I don't believe any of that "irreparable damage" in the "relationship" foolishness. I could see a scenario where a trade could happen, especially with EDC in charge now, but it would have to be multiple picks including a number 1. That's the one thing I think EDC is going to show proficiency at, determining which players in good drafts have a future and which players might garner picks if we trade them before their pre-FA year. If Yanda were still playing, I'd feel like there was a better chance. As it is, I think Brown either re-signs or hits FA, he doesn't get traded.

 

[Grim]

I think ideally you keep Brown Jr but if you’re in a spot where you feel you can replace him and some team offers a 1st round pick plus then you take it. I wouldn’t really trade Brown just for a first round pick. He’s worth way more than that to our football team and that’s the point—you only move on from Brown if a team comes with “an offer you can’t refuse” otherwise he’s a critical piece of our Super Bowl run. He isn’t untouchable though, I will say that.

As for Sanders, I’d entertain him. He’s not elite but he’s better than Snead and Boykin and that means a lot as well. We need people who can catch a football. I’d love Robinson but not sure we can swing that one, we also have to keep pass rushers or go get pass rushers. We’re in a tight spot.

 

[Dom McRaven]

I’d love Robinson but not sure we can swing that one,

Nah fam. We speaking THAT into existence.

 

[JAAM]

Nah fam. We speaking THAT into existence.

It’s going to happen and people need to accept it

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

It’s going to happen and people need to accept it

Lamar takes the snap, there's pressure from the outside, he steps up, Lamar launches it deep......ROBINSON HAS IT! HE'S RACING TO THE ENDZONE......TOUCHDOWN! THE HAY IS IN THE BARN!

 

[Adreme]

Why exactly would that be a major screw up? Again, we're trying to win football games right now. Orlando Brown helps us do that.

I'll say this as clear as I can... no GM in this league will be successful by trading away 100% of the players they don't plan to re-sign. Those GMs will get fired, and they will not win games.

If things go south next year, sure, trade him. If I think I've got a shot to win a Lombardi trophy, I'm trading FOR players, not trading AWAY players. That shot at a Lombardi is worth a hell of a lot more than 1-2 first round picks. You're 50/50 you're getting a good football player with those draft picks to begin with, and that only decreases the worse the pick is.

The most valuable thing in this league is a great player on a rookie deal. If I'm a contender, I'm sucking that bone dry before I even consider making a move to decrease that window.

As I said earlier... with all the examples you gave, there's also one common denominator... the team trading away the player wasn't very good the year they did it.

There is pretty much no non QB player, maybe Donald, who I would say is worth trading 2 first round picks for a single cheap year on. That is throwing away the future to go all in on right now and the Ravens are not exactly about to have their window close. Right now the Ravens need picks more than they need a 1 year rental of a premier RT. There are going to be a lot of holes and they are going to need to do a combination of picks and cheap FA signings to try and close them.

 

[Adreme]

Mostly because I think you're basing that off something that doesn't exist any more.

I DON'T think NFL teams consider Oline as the backbone of the team. I think NFL GM's have realized you can structure offenses to get the ball out quicker, which both negates a pass rush and negates the need for an elite pass blocking unit, and they've realized that offensive line play coming out of college is so poor that this notion they're going to build a like Cowboys 5 years ago level Oline just isn't realistic in this day in the NFL. I think offensive line is important, but I think if you look around the league, you're going to find a very mixed bag of good teams who both do and don't prioritize the offensive line, and much of it is dependent on what type of QB they have and what type of offense they run.

I don't think KC prioritizes offensive line. I know Seattle doesn't. I know the Rams don't. I don't think Buffalo does. I'd say the Ravens are in the middle in terms of how they prioritize it.
Yet Green Bay does. Indianapolis does. New Orleans does.

There's no universal truth in any regards to how winning teams construct Olines. I said it back in the Flacco-era, and its certainly true now. I don't think you need a great Oline to win SB's. I think you just can't have a bad one. It's basically like special teams. You don't have to dominate in it. You just can't suck at it. And I think that's how most teams view Oline play in 2021. Just don't suck at it.

As for what I think Brown's trade value could be, I'm indifferent. For starters, I don't think we trade him, nor do I think we should trade him. So for me, its a moot point.
As for what we could get for him, all the "comps" we are provided are either Tunsil, or crossing positions, and crossing position argument really won't hold up. No GM is going to say "well Brown is comparable to Adams in terms of how they arbitrarily "rank" in a position group", so I'll get up that price tag. It's unlikely to work that way in real life. Tunsil may be a decent comp, but that implies you'll get a dumb team like Houston to pay that price. Not impossible, but its not like every team in the league will bend over to give us whatever we want for him. That's also especially true when everybody in the league knows they can just wait less than a year and see this guy on the open market.

I would be shocked to hear of a multiple first round pick offer. I wouldn't be shocked to hear of a first round pick + maybe a sweetner or two offers.

Every time a team gets a new coach and every time a team gets a new GM they always say the same thing "we need to build ourselves to win in the trenches first and foremost". Now sometimes it does not work out perfectly because those players rarely last very long in the draft, but every coach and GM would love to build the trenches.

 

[rmcjacket23]

There is pretty much no non QB player, maybe Donald, who I would say is worth trading 2 first round picks for a single cheap year on. That is throwing away the future to go all in on right now and the Ravens are not exactly about to have their window close. Right now the Ravens need picks more than they need a 1 year rental of a premier RT. There are going to be a lot of holes and they are going to need to do a combination of picks and cheap FA signings to try and close them.

But you said yourself... their window isn't closed. So if their window isn't closed, why are we focused on trying to fill a lot of holes in a short period of time? We shouldn't be. We have picks this year. We have picks next year, and will likely get more picks next year. And in 2022, there's likely to be a lot more money available to spend on players.

Letting a good player play out his rookie contract for cheap certainly doesn't qualify as "throwing away future to go all in right now" in my eyes. I'm not sure there really can be an argument made that it is by any standard either. Throwing away the future to go all in right now would be trading future draft picks to add a player not already on the roster, and likely an expensive player. Trading for Yannick is much closer to that scenario than simply allowing Brown to play out his existing deal would qualify as "mortgaging the future".

And as I referenced before... all you're getting is picks. Picks aren't relevant until you convert those picks into quality players. How can I guarantee the picks I acquire are going to help this football team win in the short term or the long term? I can't. Bird in the hand... I've got a valuable player at a cheap price. Teams that win consistently maximize that.

That's why I said there really aren't many, if any, examples of NFL teams that are competitive trading away cheap, valuable players for draft picks. The only team that comes close to that is New England, and they missed out on a LOT of more talented players and I'd argue missed out on some Lombardi's by doing so. And it shows in the current roster they have, which is essentially the same as it was, minus the QB.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Every time a team gets a new coach and every time a team gets a new GM they always say the same thing "we need to build ourselves to win in the trenches first and foremost". Now sometimes it does not work out perfectly because those players rarely last very long in the draft, but every coach and GM would love to build the trenches.

And a lot of those coaches and GM's merely say said things, not do said things. Then they develop the team in an opposite fashion, OR, they try to build it that way, fail, and get fired.

That's why, as I said, there's no fool-proof method for how to win in this league. Perhaps the only thing that is universally true is you can't be terrible at QB or Oline. You don't have to be great at either sometimes.

 

[rossihunter2]

And a lot of those coaches and GM's merely say said things, not do said things. Then they develop the team in an opposite fashion, OR, they try to build it that way, fail, and get fired.

That's why, as I said, there's no fool-proof method for how to win in this league. Perhaps the only thing that is universally true is you can't be terrible at QB or Oline. You don't have to be great at either sometimes.

yeah you need to build 1 trench lol - definitely not required to build both trenches immediately with the way the league is right now

build the offence out front to back
build the defence out back to front

 

[Adreme]

But you said yourself... their window isn't closed. So if their window isn't closed, why are we focused on trying to fill a lot of holes in a short period of time? We shouldn't be. We have picks this year. We have picks next year, and will likely get more picks next year. And in 2022, there's likely to be a lot more money available to spend on players.

Letting a good player play out his rookie contract for cheap certainly doesn't qualify as "throwing away future to go all in right now" in my eyes. I'm not sure there really can be an argument made that it is by any standard either. Throwing away the future to go all in right now would be trading future draft picks to add a player not already on the roster, and likely an expensive player. Trading for Yannick is much closer to that scenario than simply allowing Brown to play out his existing deal would qualify as "mortgaging the future".

And as I referenced before... all you're getting is picks. Picks aren't relevant until you convert those picks into quality players. How can I guarantee the picks I acquire are going to help this football team win in the short term or the long term? I can't. Bird in the hand... I've got a valuable player at a cheap price. Teams that win consistently maximize that.

That's why I said there really aren't many, if any, examples of NFL teams that are competitive trading away cheap, valuable players for draft picks. The only team that comes close to that is New England, and they missed out on a LOT of more talented players and I'd argue missed out on some Lombardi's by doing so. And it shows in the current roster they have, which is essentially the same as it was, minus the QB.

When is the last time a player on the level of Brown hit Free Agency? A two time Pro Bowl player entering his prime. I dont think an OL player can say they have hit FA with that kind of pedigree in over a decade and I can only think of two past their prime former pro bowlers to even hit FA. Right now the Ravens cant afford to sign him though so they have to do what SF did and just take the picks the year before a player who outplayed them hits FA.

The reason being, yes the Ravens will be slightly worse this year without Brown (probably though you never know what you can find with a decent 1st round pick and they are still better than they were at the end of the last year), but they are absolutely worse off in 2 years and far worse off in 3 years and so to not trade him is the equivalent of giving up 2 first round picks for one shot at a ring.

 

[Adreme]

And a lot of those coaches and GM's merely say said things, not do said things. Then they develop the team in an opposite fashion, OR, they try to build it that way, fail, and get fired.

That's why, as I said, there's no fool-proof method for how to win in this league. Perhaps the only thing that is universally true is you can't be terrible at QB or Oline. You don't have to be great at either sometimes.

I am sure every single one of them WANTS to build in the trenches but they are simply not able to do so. Finding good OL talent has been the bane of every single team in the NFL and they are usually taken fairly high. If you don't have a top 10 pick you are not finding a premier talent on the DLine either and no one wants to be the GM who reaches for a position of need. As for FA, as I said earlier how often do building block OL players, or DLine players, hit FA. It is slightly more common for the t2 defensive players to hit FA then either t1 or t2 OLine players, and that is why they get so overpaid.

 

[Simba]

When is the last time a player on the level of Brown hit Free Agency? A two time Pro Bowl player entering his prime. I dont think an OL player can say they have hit FA with that kind of pedigree in over a decade and I can only think of two past their prime former pro bowlers to even hit FA. Right now the Ravens cant afford to sign him though so they have to do what SF did and just take the picks the year before a player who outplayed them hits FA.

The reason being, yes the Ravens will be slightly worse this year without Brown (probably though you never know what you can find with a decent 1st round pick and they are still better than they were at the end of the last year), but they are absolutely worse off in 2 years and far worse off in 3 years and so to not trade him is the equivalent of giving up 2 first round picks for one shot at a ring.

I think this is the problem with the thought process, though. Getting 2 first round picks for him is nothing but assumption. I know we've already been down this road, but I see no way he garners that. If a 1 came in, I'd think long and hard about it. But I'm not convinced one 1st is coming in let alone two.

 

[Simba]

Also, I think one thing we need to be cautious about in OBJs case is Stanley's health. I know in theory he's supposed to be back. But if he has a setback or doesn't respond to something and we trade OBJ, we have virtually no backup plan. You'd already be likely to count on a rookie at RT. You want to do the same at LT? It's a very risky move.

 

[Grim]

Also, I think one thing we need to be cautious about in OBJs case is Stanley's health. I know in theory he's supposed to be back. But if he has a setback or doesn't respond to something and we trade OBJ, we have virtually no backup plan. You'd already be likely to count on a rookie at RT. You want to do the same at LT? It's a very risky move.

Good point on Stanley, but I can’t imagine we would trade Brown if we didn’t have an inclination of his positive progress. As you said, that would be a deal breaker.

 

[Simba]

Good point on Stanley, but I can’t imagine we would trade Brown if we didn’t have an inclination of his positive progress. As you said, that would be a deal breaker.

I think that's even a tough spot, though. Just less than a month ago, Stanley started walking on his own again. Not really going to know anything about what he can do on a football field until after we'd have to make a decision on OBJ.

 

[JAAM]

I just want to enjoy having two elite Tackles protect Lamar for as long as we possibly can. Trading Orlando now only makes us worse. Milk this shit for as long as you can unless you get multiple 1st round picks. EDC ain’t stupid. If it means just getting a comp pick for letting Orlando walk then so be it. We all saw what Lamar can do when he actually has time. Fix the leaky IOL in the draft or free agency and we’re sitting pretty.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I just want to enjoy having two elite Tackles protect Lamar for as long as we possibly can. Trading Orlando now only makes us worse. Milk this shit for as long as you can unless you get multiple 1st round picks. EDC ain’t stupid. If it means just getting a comp pick for letting Orlando walk then so be it. We all saw what Lamar can do when he actually has time. Fix the leaky IOL in the draft or free agency and we’re sitting pretty.

If I could choose any position on this team to be weak at, it’s RT. Get anyone with an adequate anchor and you’re golden. Lamar will make a fool of 99% of edge rushers to his right, and as long as you don’t get blown backwards in the run game Roman can make you work

 

[airconteka]

Is it just me or does this offseason already feel longer than last offseason?

 

[rossihunter2]

Is it just me or does this offseason already feel longer than last offseason?

we havent technically really even hit the offseason yet - i think these 2 weeks to the superbowl have felt like forever lol

ive already got preliminary grades on 77 players in the 2021 draft and i only started the week we were eliminated - last year i felt super rushed trying to watch everyone but at the rate im going this year ill be bored by the time we actually get to the draft in april lol