Signings, Cuts, Trades

[Simba]

I can't believe people think we'd be interested in AB still as well. It's not happening. The only reason people would even consider it is because of his talent, but he's a shit human being. If Sammy Watkins had the same rap sheet, everyone would be saying how much they don't want him. But because AB is a star, everyone is just seemingly willing to overlook the laundry list of issues.

 

[JAAM]

I can't believe people think we'd be interested in AB still as well. It's not happening. The only reason people would even consider it is because of his talent, but he's a shit human being. If Sammy Watkins had the same rap sheet, everyone would be saying how much they don't want him. But because AB is a star, everyone is just seemingly willing to overlook the laundry list of issues.

No one even knows if it’s true or not. Shannon Sharpe said we have interest and I don’t really consider him a good source. I think if we truly wanted AB, we would’ve gotten him before TB did. There’s still the Lamar and Hollywood connection, however

 

[rossihunter2]

i am so disappointed in boykin man, i never thought ferguson was worth a fuck, but what i saw from boykin in person at training camp was just flat out dominance, like idk who else on the boards was there but i know you werent, but if anyone was there in 2019 i need yall to back me up on it lol, he flat out looked unstoppable, he was the single most impressive player out there and whoever was #2 wasnt really close. i didnt like him prior to drafting him and i was pissed we traded up for him, but that training camp had me sold, and here we are 2 years later talking about his replacement.

i remember you reporting back from the stadium practices - but i wonder if again (with the benefit of hindsight) that was about being in non-contact/low contact drills where his two biggest weaknesses as a pro wouldn't have manifested (i.e. his inability to play physical and some of the mental stuff with misreading coverage/running the wrong route etc.)

the problem for me with boykin is that he's just never really flashed at all in games outside of the redzone

 

[rossihunter2]

Neither Davonte Adams or Golden Tate lit the world on fire on the football field during their second year in The NFl. The only difference is that those guys were in a wide receiver friendly offense than Boykins. I don't think Boykins is perfect but it's hard to really judge him. Like I can't even say that his situation is even close to a Tandon Doss. Lamar Jackson definitely deserves some blame for his receivers not looking as good as hoped because the guy just wasn't the same quarterback like he was in 2019. He didn't get better with his outside the number passes and wasn't nearly as accurate throwing it it deep like he was in 2019. Maybe the offensive line played a role in that but its not clear.

idk about tate - but adams had some traits that were showing up and he was still flashing in individual games early in his career the ability to become a good player (and ultimately top 5 WR in the league) he realised he needed to change something

part of the reason im so excited about keith williams is that he took a guy with all the potential that davante adams had and rebuilt him as a route runner and transformed him into this elite route runner

i just dont see the same tools and traits from boykin (nor the production - when we say adams took a leap, his baseline was still 400+ yards) that would suggest he could make that sort of leap - if he does then we need to find a way to make sure we never let keith williams leave the organisation...

for those interested here's an article (athletic) on coach "dubb" and davante adams https://theathletic.co.uk/2338503/2021/01/22/davante-adams-packers-fresno-state/?redirected=1

 

[rossihunter2]

Right. If they were good players, the balance and depth of the team would be a lot stronger

for sure - we'd be looking at finding complementary prospects as edge rushers (probably more traitsy type guys who we can take more of a risk on and take more time to develop), whereas right now we're looking for day 1 contributors potentially at both edge and WR

if boykin had been successful we probably wouldn't have signed sammy (or if we did we'd again be looking more for another complementary type player and maybe again gamble on some developmental traits rather than a day 1 contributor type)

 

[UPennChem]

for sure - we'd be looking at finding complementary prospects as edge rushers (probably more traitsy type guys who we can take more of a risk on and take more time to develop), whereas right now we're looking for day 1 contributors potentially at both edge and WR

if boykin had been successful we probably wouldn't have signed sammy (or if we did we'd again be looking more for another complementary type player and maybe again gamble on some developmental traits rather than a day 1 contributor type)

Really just shows how important it is to hit in the early rounds.

 

[rossihunter2]

I think there is a lot of good analysis in what you and @rossihunter2 just replied with. Its interesting. Maybe just one really athletic edge rusher wuth the traits rossi explained could be extremely dangerous in our system.

what's weird is that i totally agree with that and yet the ravens haven't really ever drafted "traits" guys - they've got a type and it normally is higher floor types with physicality and a record of production and some baseline athleticism but never really looking at high level athletic types...

like there's part of me that would be super intrigued about taking a guy like Jayson oweh who's a ridiculous athlete but after a promising 2019 recorded 0 sacks in 2020 - really raw but an absurd athlete

and part of me wonders whether the scheme creates a high baseline for athletic guys to succeed because we're only likely to produce sacks within the scheme if guys win quickly (i.e. counter-moves and refinement are less important)

and yet the ravens draft and free agent signing record suggests they think almost the complete inverse way

 

[rossihunter2]

Does it really not bother anyone that the man will be on trial for rape in December? That he was suspended for assault? That he acted batshit insane for months? Like, we had people against JuJu because dancing on tiktok isn't "manly", but now we're salivating over possible rapists because they're really good at sports?

100% with you on this

 

[rossihunter2]

You might as well turn off the NFL my man. League is full of dudes with no morales including plenty of Ravens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

other than maybe jimmy smith who was already on the team when the rice incident happened... who are you referring to?

post-rice - we just have not taken a look at anyone with any sort of domestic violence/sexual violence history at all

 

[QuothTheRaven]

There was a time when cris carter was seen in the same light. Ray lewis was on trial for murder 20 years ago, the court of public opinion convicted him right then and there, and they’ve held that conviction despite it being a fairly open and shut case of self defense in a melee.

the key word is possible, it’s not up to the court of public opinion to convict him based on other incidents totally unrelated.

That's fair actually, he deserves his day in court for the rape accusation so let's discount that. But there's enough history to be sure he's a low character guy and a potential nightmare. I can't enjoy cheering for a guy like that, and it really makes no difference to me how talented he is - which he may well not be any more anyway.

Plus, if we want to talk availability, there's a big risk that he won't be around for the playoffs.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

You might as well turn off the NFL my man. League is full of dudes with no morales including plenty of Ravens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who are we talking about here? Jimmy Smith? I know there are low character guys in the league, and you won't find me calling for us to sign any of them.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You might as well turn off the NFL my man. League is full of dudes with no morales including plenty of Ravens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I personally don't really care about what kind of a "human being" he is off the field or frankly what he does with his time, provided he's able to post on Sunday's and play well.

AB is also just like a world-class bad teammate by pretty much every locker room account he's been in. Tampa is the only place that hasn't said shit about him, mostly because they were the one's who gave him his 4th (and likely final) chance in the league. Without them, he'd be unemployed. He's several years removed from being this "all-world", "elite" WR who can take over a game. He's not a bad receiver, and he'd probably be one, if not the best, WR on our team if he joined today. But that's less of a reflection of his skills and more of a reflection of our current group.

AB very much feels like, if you keep giving him bones, he's just going to pull an Earl Thomas and start picking fights with people for being wrong himself. After we dispatched of ET and barely lost a beat, I seriously doubt the FO is that super interested in bringing in another highly-possible locker room cancer to infect the place.

He already turned down a comparable offer from TB to what he made last year, which was like $2-3M or something like that. I'm certainly not paying him more than that to come to Baltimore.

 

[rossihunter2]

cool - he's back

 

[Simba]

cool - he's back

Would imagine it’s the minimum or close to it. Easy decision if that’s the case.

 

[rossihunter2]

Would imagine it’s the minimum or close to it. Easy decision if that’s the case.

i remember it was thought that this might be the outcome when we initially cut him

 

[JAAM]

cool - he's back

YES!!!!!!!

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i remember you reporting back from the stadium practices - but i wonder if again (with the benefit of hindsight) that was about being in non-contact/low contact drills where his two biggest weaknesses as a pro wouldn't have manifested (i.e. his inability to play physical and some of the mental stuff with misreading coverage/running the wrong route etc.)

the problem for me with boykin is that he's just never really flashed at all in games outside of the redzone

You’re exactly right, like you said he’s a shells champ, once the lights come on and dudes start lighting up your ribs every time he reaches up for a ball he shrinks up. Hollywood is tougher with the ball in the air in live action ffs

 

[JoeyFlex5]

cool - he's back

Good pickup, really underrated player.

So if you cut and re sign that means zero effect on comps right?

 

[rossihunter2]

You’re exactly right, like you said he’s a shells champ, once the lights come on and dudes start lighting up your ribs every time he reaches up for a ball he shrinks up. Hollywood is tougher with the ball in the air in live action ffs

it's not even just about the catch-point though with boykin - it's all through the route - he's not going to punish corners for trying to put their hands on him or trying to disrupt him

 

[JoeyFlex5]

That's fair actually, he deserves his day in court for the rape accusation so let's discount that. But there's enough history to be sure he's a low character guy and a potential nightmare. I can't enjoy cheering for a guy like that, and it really makes no difference to me how talented he is - which he may well not be any more anyway.

Plus, if we want to talk availability, there's a big risk that he won't be around for the playoffs.

That’s fair too, if you don’t want a guy who’s been a well documented pair of goddamn clown shoes then I totally understand, but I also believe in our locker room, I don’t believe that every player with character concerns is earl thomas, earl literally wasn’t attending practices and meetings and wasn’t studying film or the playbook and was an actual detriment to the teams on field performance throughout practice, AB brings a lot of ego and very little self composure, but he works his ass off, he would be one of the top 3 hardest workers on the team the day he’s signed, and this is more of a locker room that I think he fits in, where earl thomas literally doesn’t fit in anywhere, AB could vibe with the faces of this team like Lamar and Hollywood and andrews, he’s got that fire and work ethic and vocal way about him. Idk I just believe and really always have believed that AB would actually work out here.