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Signings, Cuts, Trades

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Julio's contract is for nearly 20M this year. We are not signing him for that or trading and inheriting that. If somehow his contract is restructured maybe, but why would he be motivated to do that other than playing for a potential superbowl team. At 20M, giving away a pick and having to pay that salary is not going to happen. Plus he's 17M next year and a huge dead money hit if dropped. I know I advocated for him in the past and he'd do great here, imo, but that money would be crippling and with a pick going too, just plain stupid. Unless, I'm an idiot and missing something from the equation, which is also a possiblity. ^_^
Atlanta keeps a good bit of that on their books when they trade though.

The only thing an acquiring team would be getting is his current base salaries, which is $15.3M for 2021, and $11.5M each in 22 and 23. All the rest of the cap hit stays in Atlanta as dead money when the trade happens.

Still expensive and probably out of our price range, but not in the $20M range. Honestly, for teams with cap space, acquiring Julio for the next three years at ~$39M total isn't that bad of a deal.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
So if Bateman is there at 27, there’s not a lot of difference him and a 3rd+ rounder? We don’t have a 2nd
I think after the "top three" in this draft class, there's a pretty sizeable drop off. And I'm not passing up a player I like more at 27 just to take a WR, who, as I've said multiple times on here already, will be playing in an offense that doesn't throw the football a lot to begin with, and also has other mouths to feed (and likely feed more). I don't expect any WR we get, short of a trade up to get one of the top 3 guys, to overtake Brown or Andrews for targets right out of the gate.

Me personally... I'm assuming we will have a 2nd round pick at some point, because I don't think we're making two first round selections. But I can't guarantee that either.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I’m just iffy on another smaller, fast WR in the 1st. Lamar needs a big body guy that can get contested balls. Only short, fast guy I’d be fine with is Waddle but it’s not happening. I don’t think we like Marshall honestly, and neither does Peter King. For me, at 27, it’s Bateman or another position altogether. Just my opinion though

i mean i dont think we have to get a big-bodied guy... i dont like bateman because he's a big-body, nor do i like marshall because he's a big-body - i like them because they get open and because they have movement skills that get them open

elijah moore is probably the best route-runner in the class - better than devonta smith, better than bateman - i dont care that he's not 6'0

you only need to catch contested balls if you're covered...

but guess what... elijah moore is good in contested situations and has great hands... he's just not got a massive catch radius

idk why you'd be happy with waddle but not happy with moore?
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Why does the WR have to come in the first? Don't see any reason why they couldn't get one in day two. There's not a lot of difference to me between 2nd round WRs and guys you're taking at 27 or 31.

see i differ here - because i think there's a major drop-off after the first 7 or 8 receivers in this class

i think generally the players you're getting overall are very similar across positions but i think there's a big dropoff at WR and i think there's a chance that all 7 or 8 of the top guys are gone by pick 35...
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
there's a reason he's available...
I mean, to be fair, I don't think its because they don't think he's good. Its because they have a terrible cap situation and need to overhaul pretty much their entire defense.

Plus, they already have at least one really good pass catcher on their roster, have some depth, and they do have the ability to add pretty much any stud WR they want in the draft, for much cheaper, if they trade Julio.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I think after the "top three" in this draft class, there's a pretty sizeable drop off. And I'm not passing up a player I like more at 27 just to take a WR, who, as I've said multiple times on here already, will be playing in an offense that doesn't throw the football a lot to begin with, and also has other mouths to feed (and likely feed more). I don't expect any WR we get, short of a trade up to get one of the top 3 guys, to overtake Brown or Andrews for targets right out of the gate.

Me personally... I'm assuming we will have a 2nd round pick at some point, because I don't think we're making two first round selections. But I can't guarantee that either.

just because there's a sizable dropoff between the top 3 and the next guy (and tbh i disagree with that notion anyway), doesn't mean that the next tier of WRs aren't going to be worth the 27th pick... i think there's 6 WRs that i'd personally take with the 27th pick where they feasibly could/would be BPA there...
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
just because there's a sizable dropoff between the top 3 and the next guy (and tbh i disagree with that notion anyway), doesn't mean that the next tier of WRs aren't going to be worth the 27th pick... i think there's 6 WRs that i'd personally take with the 27th pick where they feasibly could/would be BPA there...
And that's fine. I'm more or less taking the same stance I've been taking, which is that a) the FO doesn't value the need for a WR nearly as high as the fanbase does and b) I have zero doubt that they have WRs on their board with 2nd, 3rd and later grades that they'll be more than happy to target if they can't get who they want in the first. And it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they don't view somebody like Bateman as a top 30 pick, and even pass on him if he's available.

Certainly understand that there's a wide range of view points on skill sets, who falls where, etc., which is par for the course in the NFL draft. I think its critical for fans to understand that the FO doesn't always share the viewpoints of what analysts we've been hearing for weeks share on certain players, positions, needs, etc.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
And that's fine. I'm more or less taking the same stance I've been taking, which is that a) the FO doesn't value the need for a WR nearly as high as the fanbase does and b) I have zero doubt that they have WRs on their board with 2nd, 3rd and later grades that they'll be more than happy to target if they can't get who they want in the first. And it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they don't view somebody like Bateman as a top 30 pick, and even pass on him if he's available.

Certainly understand that there's a wide range of view points on skill sets, who falls where, etc., which is par for the course in the NFL draft. I think its critical for fans to understand that the FO doesn't always share the viewpoints of what analysts we've been hearing for weeks share on certain players, positions, needs, etc.

for sure - that's why i make my own board each year... because i want to know what i think about the players and what i think the ravens think about players

i can buy that the ravens don't love bateman - but im also not sure who they would favour in stead (at any position) - partly because it's really hard to predict who'll be available this year (moreso than in other years for some reason)

At OL: Creed Humphrey or Landon Dickerson would make a lot of sense, as would Jenkins (but im almost 100% sure he's not making it to 27) - feels too early for Cosmi or Radunz but i guess they'd be in play too

At DB: Richie Grant or Trevon Moehrig would make some sense but i dont get the sense that they're 1st rounders necessarily although Richie Grant i'd be very excited about if we did take him at 27 (or 31) - more likely in BPA terms it would be a corner if one of the top 4 CBs drop or if we really like Asante Samuel Jr (which is certainly possible too especially with his inside/outside flexibility) - or we could be super high on tyson campbell and eric stokes who are rawer generally but are very impressive athletes with great press technique (but 27 feels too early for those 2 georgia guys)

At WR: Bateman, Moore, Marshall, Toney would all make sense and they're all a slightly different flavour of WR which makes it hard to pick exactly who the ravens would rate highly - bateman's the most assured vs press, moore's the best separator vs man in general and the most natural slot, marshall has the height-weight-speed (something the ravens have traditionally valued highly) but is a little rawer, and toney has some absurd movement skills and post-catch dynamism - my guess is Toney would be lowest on the Ravens board here (unless there's real concern about Marshall's medicals which there could be)

At EDGE: it's hard to imagine a 1st round EDGE falling - Kwity Paye will be long gone, Ojulari likely gone too - but if not then he's a real option, Phillips is either gone or the medicals are concerning enough that he might not be viable at 27 - but he's supremely talented and would definitely be in the discussion at 27 even with poor medicals - jayson oweh's a wildcard but doesnt fit the typical ravens profile at the position - carlos basham on the other hand is a great fit but this might be too early for him

At DL: there's 3 who have a chance - Barmore, Nixon and Onwuzurike - it's possible none of them go high - barmore's got issues in the running game, nixon's flashy but inconsistent and onwuzurike's a beast but lighter than the other 2 and can sometimes lose if he doesnt win initially - not sure i'd love him at 27 but he'd definitely be in play for me at 31

At LB: parsons will be gone and it's likely that at least 1 and probably both of JOK and collins will be too... if not they merit consideration but i doubt they're available

QB, TE and RB will not be options for us at the end of the 1st

if im looking purely at fit then im probably looking at these prospects who have a good chance to be available:

OL: Humphrey, Dickerson, Cosmi
DB: Campbell, Samuel Jr, Grant, Moehrig
WR: Marshall, Bateman
EDGE: Basham Jr, Phillips
DL: Onwuzurike

And i'd stack them like this:
Phillips (medical questions)
Bateman
Dickerson (medical questions)
Humphrey
Marshall (medical questions)
Samuel Jr
Grant
Basham
Moehrig
Onwuzurike
Cosmi
Campbell
 
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RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
i mean i dont think we have to get a big-bodied guy... i dont like bateman because he's a big-body, nor do i like marshall because he's a big-body - i like them because they get open and because they have movement skills that get them open

elijah moore is probably the best route-runner in the class - better than devonta smith, better than bateman - i dont care that he's not 6'0

you only need to catch contested balls if you're covered...

but guess what... elijah moore is good in contested situations and has great hands... he's just not got a massive catch radius

idk why you'd be happy with waddle but not happy with moore?
Elijah Moore played basically in the slot in college. Do you feel he could line up outside in the NFL?
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Elijah Moore played basically in the slot in college. Do you feel he could line up outside in the NFL?

he played outside in college too - was a demon vs man coverage outside - just mostly faced off coverage rather than press
but i have no doubts he can play the "z" and the slot - my only question would be if he could play the x and tbh, with the amount you'd want to motion him anyway (and the amount he was motioned in college) he's likely not playing a ton of x even if he does win vs press (and it looks like he's spent most of this offseason already working on his press releases...)

and tbh even if he cant play outside, i dont really care - most teams are playing with slots as starters anyway, in the same way that the base defence of almost every NFL team is the nickel, the base offence for the vast majority of the NFL is 11 personnel

in the ravens offence he might be limited somewhat by the 12, 21 and 22 personnel we use a combination of fairly often because he's not a willie snead type blocker - especially in year 1

but as a receiver, i have no issue playing him out of all sorts of alignments just like they did in college
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
I don’t feel comfortable with having two starters being under 5’8”, especially without any viable WRs above 6’
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Size is so overrated at WR. Boykin has it but it hasn't helped him any. Give me the guy that can get open and catch the ball 10 times out of 10. I don't care if he's 5'8 or 6'6.
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
Saw that post today, same thoughts.
@Dom McRaven @JAAM you got work to do

I saw that this morning in an article by Peter King and was about to post it but was in a hurry for work. He even threw us in there along with Vegas and the Patriots as potential suitors. Brother @Dom McRaven, I’m ready to begin the #SIIE ritual if you are.
You know what? Fuck it, I'm in the mood. Julio to the Baltimore Ravens. #SIIE
 

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Surely you lose a dimension to your attack in the redzone though?

To some extent. But if the tall WR is garbage, it doesn't really matter. For instance, if I'm in the red zone and I have Brown and Boykin lined up as my WRs, you can be damn sure Hollywood is my first read.

I think every team would love to have a dominant, tall WR but you also shouldn't limit yourself to that.

I mean, if I had similar grades on a 6'4 WR vs. a 5'8 WR for our current offense, I'll take the 6'4 guy. But if the 5'8 guy has a better grade, give me the 5'8 guy all day.
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Size is so overrated at WR. Boykin has it but it hasn't helped him any. Give me the guy that can get open and catch the ball 10 times out of 10. I don't care if he's 5'8 or 6'6.
It's overrated when you don't know how to use it. Steve Smith played tall. Tommy Streeter played small.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Surely you lose a dimension to your attack in the redzone though?

but is boykin a redzone weapon because of his size or because he's athletic?
i'd say it's probably the latter

im not going to lie and suggest that being long and having a larger catch radius doesn't help - but it's not the most important thing anymore at all

the types of plays like fades and backshoulders that have typically been thought of as redzone staples are starting to be less popular because they're low percentage plays and throws - especially with a QB that can extend the play - quicker guys can get themselves open more easily vs broken coverage
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
eh...
neither hollywood nor elijah moore are below 5'9
and sammy watkins is 6'1...

elijah moore is only half an inch shorter and 5lbs lighter than antonio brown...

All I know is, with all other things equal, a taller guy with a bigger wingspan will be able to snag those throws Lamar sometimes throws much better than a smaller guy with less of a wingspan
 
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