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QtR Nevermore said:
It's not a strength but Lamar does have a red zone fade and has thrown a few for touchdowns.

I thought the reason we hadn't seen more was because we didn't have a WR who could come down with them, but they had Hopkins last year and still didn't do it which was wasteful because it would have been useful last season with our usual RZ plays failing.

I'm not too worried because it's not a great play anyway.

It's much better for Lamar to buy time to let someone get open but you need an average O line to do that. We didn't have one last season and I'm not too confident about this year either. EDC stills seems to have his attitude that One hole on defense is unacceptable, Five holes on offense is just how it goes sometimes.
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I'm trying to understand where the notion comes from that a fade isn't something that many teams use with success, or that it isn't a "great play". The highlight reels each and every week are filled with such. It may not be a high percentage play, but is a great weapon. And we also have not used quick outs and slants consistently in the end zone or to beat the blitz. Need more.

You can't consistently and reliably base an offense on the QB "buying time", improvisation, or "waiting for someone to get open". Having that ability is definitely a plus, but should never be depended upon to as a primary plan, and will certainly fail against the better defenses. If you listen to Jesse and Declan talk about changes in the offense, that seems to be a primary goal, to work towards staying on schedule and developing rhythm, and not depending on Lamar improvising.
 
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Tank said:
I think the Bills only recently put that into their playbook. There's always been goal line runs and sneaks there for Allen, he has the size and strength to make it work.
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using TeamRankings as the metric, in 2024 Baltimore was 1st and Buffalo was 2nd. 2023 Baltimore is 7th vs Bufallo 4th.

My biggest issue with last year and the tail end of the playoffs the previous year (against the Bills) was how inefficient the offense became. We could not get a single yards in the goal line.

We can chalk this up to personnel or play calling. We just got too cute and did not come out with the right stuff imo. I've said it a ton of times, we don't utilize the players we have to their fullest capacity.
 
Tank said:
You can't consistently and reliably base an offense on the QB "buying time", improvisation, or "waiting for someone to get open". Having that ability is definitely a plus, but should never be depended upon to as a primary plan, and will certainly fail against the better defenses. If you listen to Jesse and Declan talk about changes in the offense, that seems to be a primary goal, to work towards staying on schedule and developing rhythm, and not depending on Lamar improvising.
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how did you get from not running lots of fades into not running any sort of real redzone play designs and routes...
 
gtalk12 said:
using TeamRankings as the metric, in 2024 Baltimore was 1st and Buffalo was 2nd. 2023 Baltimore is 7th vs Bufallo 4th.

My biggest issue with last year and the tail end of the playoffs the previous year (against the Bills) was how inefficient the offense became. We could not get a single yards in the goal line.

We can chalk this up to personnel or play calling. We just got too cute and did not come out with the right stuff imo. I've said it a ton of times, we don't utilize the players we have to their fullest capacity.
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i mean ultimately we've had 2 years where we sucked in short yardage
can definitely chalk that up to IOL play if you were so inclined
 
gtalk12 said:
using TeamRankings as the metric, in 2024 Baltimore was 1st and Buffalo was 2nd. 2023 Baltimore is 7th vs Bufallo 4th.

My biggest issue with last year and the tail end of the playoffs the previous year (against the Bills) was how inefficient the offense became. We could not get a single yards in the goal line.

We can chalk this up to personnel or play calling. We just got too cute and did not come out with the right stuff imo. I've said it a ton of times, we don't utilize the players we have to their fullest capacity.
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I think if you dig a bit deeper you'll see we kinda sucked in 2024 as well inside the 5. For years the playbook has just seemed so small in those situations. I think our most recent consistent success inside the 5 was running Gus and Henry.
 
Tank said:
I'm trying to understand where the notion comes from that a fade isn't something that many teams use with success, or that it isn't a "great play". The highlight reels each and every week are filled with such. It may not be a high percentage play, but is a great weapon. And we also have not used quick outs and slants consistently in the end zone or to beat the blitz. Need more.

You can't consistently and reliably base an offense on the QB "buying time", improvisation, or "waiting for someone to get open". Having that ability is definitely a plus, but should never be depended upon to as a primary plan, and will certainly fail against the better defenses. If you listen to Jesse and Declan talk about changes in the offense, that seems to be a primary goal, to work towards staying on schedule and developing rhythm, and not depending on Lamar improvising.
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The reason I don't love fades is that it's a hard throw, a tricky catch and it's often quite easy for a covering player to force the receiver out of bounds even if it's completed. There's a lot that can go wrong.

I completely agree about needing more quick passes on the goal line along with getting back to gaining 1 or 2 yards on the ground, even when the defense knows it's coming.

However, I think it's undeniable that our most successful endzone passing play in the Lamar era has involved him buying time and finding an angle to a receiver. I'm not saying it should be plan A but it's a great plan B if the primary read is not open.
 
rossihunter2 said:
how did you get from not running lots of fades into not running any sort of real redzone play designs and routes...
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I don't recall saying we need to "run lots of fades". Did I write that somewhere?
The original point was if you don't/can't run a fade, especially in the endzone, it makes it that much easier for the defense.

And I don't understand the second part of your post, but I think you're taking something out of context. Perhaps my reply to Nevermore where he said "It's much better for Lamar to buy time to let someone get open....." where I suggested a shift by the new staff to not depend so much on Lamar improvising.
 
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Tank said:
I think if you dig a bit deeper you'll see we kinda sucked in 2024 as well inside the 5.
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So, you've surely dug into the numbers then. What do the numbers actually say?

For anyone curious, the Ravens had 78 plays inside the 10 and scored 34 touchdowns inside the 10.

Lamar threw 18 touchdowns inside the 10. He ranked fifth.

Derrick Henry scored 13 touchdowns inside the 10. He ranked second. He scored nine touchdowns inside the five. He ranked fourth.

The Ravens scoring touchdowns on 34 touchdowns on 78 plays means they scored touchdowns on 44% of their goal to go plays. Not drives, but plays.

The 2024 Ravens, largely due to Lamar, were surgical when they got into the red zone.

I don't know why you continue to try to slander Lamar based on vibes, but if you actually did any digging (you didn't), you'd see your narrative is false.
 
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29BmoreBird22 said:
So, you've surely dug into the numbers then. What do the numbers actually say?

For anyone curious, the Ravens had 78 plays inside the 10 and scored 34 touchdowns inside the 10.

Lamar threw 18 touchdowns inside the 10. He ranked fifth.

Derrick Henry scored 13 touchdowns inside the 10. He ranked second. He scored nine touchdowns inside the five. He ranked fourth.

The Ravens scoring touchdowns on 34 touchdowns on 78 plays means they scored touchdowns on 44% of their goal to go plays. Not drives, but plays.

The 2024 Ravens, largely due to Lamar, were surgical when they got into the red zone.

I don't know why you continue to try to slander Lamar based on vibes, but if you actually did any digging (you didn't), you'd see your narrative is false.
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Everyone don't have to like Lamar. Just hilarious how he tries to disguise it then take any dig possible.
 
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