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Joe's Best Receiver
- Thread starter K-Dog
- Start date
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
The best GROUP joe ever had, was starring boldin. Torrey and jacoby seriously caught fire in those playoffs as well, vs Indy boldin was the star, vs Denver Torrey was the star with a miracle play by jacoby, vs NE Pitta and boldin both tore it up, with boldin having the edge, and in the SB it was once again Pitta and boldin.
Nobody stole the show for the whole 4 weeks, everyone contributed fairly.
Nobody stole the show for the whole 4 weeks, everyone contributed fairly.
Ah, that's fair. Agreed on the overall regard of Boldin's tenure. There was an understandable frustration after he was traded, which may have led to the overstatements, but that doesn't excuse the latter on their parts. He never surpassed 1,000 yards, that is correct. However, it was mostly due to missed time in his last two seasons. He missed his last two games in 2011, and he was injured in the Giants game in 2012 and missed basically the second half as well as the game after. He was on pace for 1,013 yards and 1,008 yards in those seasons, respectively. I definitely agree about the questionable fit into the scheme, especially since he managed 85 and 83 catches in the two seasons after being traded. The same goes for Mason having to deal with an ill-fitted scheme. As far as production goes, Mason's and Boldin's regular season numbers are rather similar when prorated for missed time. On a per game basis, Mason averaged 4.9 receptions on 8 targets, with 60.2 yards and .30 TDs per game. Boldin averaged 4.2 receptions on 7.3 targets, with 59.3 yards and .31 TDs per game. Mason had more targets, but he also had a better catch rate, so he earns the slight nod in that department. The yards and TDs seem like a wash. Both played 8 postseason games. Mason averaged 2.5 receptions on 5.8 targets, 36.1 yards and .13 TDs. Boldin averaged 4.8 receptions on 8 targets, 77 yards and .75 TDs.
I'm not attempting to make a case for either one, and some context is needed in that one of Mason's games has an asterisk, that being the New England shellacking when our defense dominated the contest and we barely passed the ball. You could also include our dreadful 2006 defeat to the Colts, where our offense as a whole was again nonexistent. Each figure suffered in that infamous "3rd and 19" loss to Pittsburgh, though the nod goes to Boldin for the postseason numbers. My description of his 2011 numbers may have been slightly modest. He finished 7th in the league in the 2011 playoffs in receiving yards per game with 87, while our next best receiver combined for 91 yards in 2 games. It may not count as taking games over completely, but he was miles ahead of the rest of our receivers. Though to your previous point, he did play with a better version of Flacco. Also to Mason's credit, he was more consistent between the two. Even in his lackluster games, he was rarely held off the stat sheet, being held to 39 yards or less in 3.5 games per year to Boldin's 5.5. However, that also implies that because their per game numbers were similar, Boldin was statistically inclined to have more games with high yardages, so he arguably took over games at least just as much. Just wanted to put the numbers on paper since I enjoy digging through data.
Thank you kindly. The complements are much appreciated, and go for it lol
I wish Joe did that more tbh. Whenever he jist locked in on SSS it seemed like thats when the offense got going. Then after that he would spread the ball around a couple quarters with no luck before it was time to lock in on steve again.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
similar feeling here, although he wasted no time making himself a centerpiece here, and just a few weeks in he alleviated that rental feeling quite a bit. by the end of the 3 years it felt like he had always been a raven and were left wondering "what if?"
you feel this way because in 2016 when he wasnt locked onto steve he was locked onto pitta who couldnt pass the sticks to save his life, and in 2015 he had literally nobody else. there wasnt many targets to spread around to in steves time here, and also the offensive playbooks were god awful.
in 2014 he was able to spread around to some decent targets, owen daniels had a great year here, torrey smith was having a solid year up until the very last play, and the playbook favored everyone
I felt less that way last year because SSS never seemed to definitely be a step or 2 slower. However on the other 2 years he imposed his will on defenders in a way no other Raven has.
Owen Daniels last year reminded me a lot of Pitta in that neither could get YAC to save there lives and Torrey was the worst player at tracking the ball i have ever seen in the NFL (at least it got him a lot of drawn flags).
Owen Daniels last year reminded me a lot of Pitta in that neither could get YAC to save there lives and Torrey was the worst player at tracking the ball i have ever seen in the NFL (at least it got him a lot of drawn flags).
Tank
Hall of Famer
Really wasn't thinking of stats or sheer production, more so the quality and timeliness of catches. While Boldin was sometimes disappointing during his time in Bmore no one that has played with Joe made the type of tough contested catches that he did during the SB run.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Sometimes stats do tell the story. Timeliness of a catch doesn't apply when you're making multiple key plays every week. And you can't fault steves performance compared to boldin just because Steve was better at gaining separation. Boldin made so many tough catches because he wasn't getting open, Steve just got his ass open on probably half of his snaps.
There is being clutch like boldin was, and then there is being consistent. Steve was consistent that year. The clutch moments don't stand out as much because a. He was producing those plays constantly, and b. Because the stakes were lower due to having a horrible team.
Sooky
Pro Bowler
I had Steve Smith and Keenan Allen on my fantasy team and both were top 3 wide receivers and then both got injured the same week lmao
That's the luck of the game. Ouch
Had the very same in a PPR league. Then Dion Lewis went down the following week.
Tank
Hall of Famer
eh......it's a subjective choice and you could factor in many variables to support either. The competition and level of play was much better and much more talented in the playoffs making Boldin's performances that much more impressive. And there were definitely times where Smitty just disappeared and you wondered if he was even on the field. So, I don't think he was as consistent as you remember.
Safe to say they both played well in stretches and are players Joe would have like to have back playing at a high level.
Sooky
Pro Bowler
I believe he is talking about the 2015 season like he said in his post and there was no Steve Smith disappearing that year. He had 1 year under his belt in the offense and was taking off. If he didn't get injured (again if) he was on pace to get 1500+ yards and that was with a missed game I believe because of his broken ribs that he played through with for a couple games before he eventually tore his achilles.
Boldin had stretches as well don't get me wrong, but Steve did more with less around him. And that is possibly why he has the better stats of the two, but Steve Smith made big plays out of no where when the team needed them. Unfortunately for Steve, he only went to the playoffs once with the Ravens and it didn't last long and that loss was on the defense.
Boldin never had a year near what Steve was going to have during the injury. And unfortunately Steve was not really 100% at all last year. He admitted as soon as his achilles healed he got banged up from something else. Which is what Boldin was great at was staying healthy and Steve has struggled with throughout his career.
A healthy Boldin and Steve Smith today, I think Steve Smith still provides a bigger impact on a team. 5-10 years ago the same thing. And that isn't because Boldin is bad, not at all, he helped the Ravens get a ring. Steve Smith is a hall of famer and top 10 in almost every receiving category in the history of the league. And that is with stopgaps at quarterback his entire career for the most part. If Steve was paired with a solid quarterback his entire career like Rice having Montana, I think Steve would be probably a top 3 in almost every category. A lot of what ifs and we will never know, but Steve Smith in his prime was wasted by bad teams around him.
Tank
Hall of Famer
As I said, totally subjective as they never played with the same squad against the same opponents.
Over the course of their careers I would agree that Smitty is the better of the two. It's just my opinion that considering the weight of the games and the quality of the opponents, Boldin's performances during the last SB run far exceeded anything SSS did while in Bmore.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
That's rose tinted glasses you have about boldin. He dominated 2 games and had some big key plays the other 2. Boldin had an excellent SB run with us, not denying that in the slightest, but my god why do ravens fans act like he was Julio jones in that stretch? He wasn't. He was playing damn good, but it wasn't some untouchable 4 game stretch like so many claim. I'd argue Pitta was just as valuable in that stretch, he made nearly as many tough contested catches and may have converted more crucial 3rd downs than boldin did.
Tank
Hall of Famer
Sorry homes, I'm not "that guy", no "rose tinted glasses", not a generic "Ravens fans" or anything like that. Why would you go there? lol. It's my opinion as a "football fan" that Boldin's "damn good" play as you describe it was, hands down, the best receiver play that Joe has had the benefit of in his career. Nothing more.
That may not be entirely accurate with regards to Pitta. I've charted his receptions in that postseason before for my own interest. Here's the breakdown of his 14 catches for 163 yards and 3 scores in the 4 games:
Against the Colts, he ran a 5 yard out with the MIKE failing to follow and the SS too far to close, and he ran a slant on the TD and was wide open due to the SAM selling out on Ray Rice's wheel route, both seemingly against the Cover 3, both without a defender within several yards at the catch point. Against the Broncos, he shook loose of the SAM on the shake route against man coverage with a failed attempt by the LB to dive for a deflection while trailing. He ran a corner route against zone and made a sideline grab with the SAM and SS trailing by several yards. He did fail to reel in a difficult reception on slant route against an SS on the 4th and 5 preceding the Jacoby Jones catch, and it stalled a drive kept alive by one of Boldin's 3rd and long conversations. However, he finished on a solid note as his last catch of the afternoon was a beautiful back-shoulder grab against the SS on a seam route on a 3rd and 13. The drive was sadly led to a halt, but it was terrific execution on his end nonetheless. Against the Patriots, he was left alone on a hitch route with the safety responsible biting on the hitch route on the opposite hash mark, converting a 3rd and 4 on a drive that led to a score. He ran a slant, losing the LB on the stutter during the break point. He took an absolute missile of a shot from the MIKE after separating against the SAM and somehow had the stones to hold onto the football. He followed up the play with the TD on a 5 yard out route after shaking free of the SS at the break point. It was by far his most involved drive of the postseason, and definitely an important one given that it led to a lead change. He finished the game with a drag route in front of two LBs almost a handful of yards away at the catch point. Against the 49ers, he made a sideline reception on a comeback off of a wheel route, separating from the SS after the cut. He lost the same defender on a hitch in the end zone after faking an out route for the TD. That play was sandwiched by his other two receptions that were flat routes that were basically unaccounted for due to the SAM blitzing on both occasions.
There are two takeaways in this scenario. One is that the lack of contested catches was due in no minor role to his ability to separate. He seldom took wasted steps in his route running and his cuts and shimmers made it difficult to predict where the breaks were going. His understanding of separating was so well nuanced. Obviously the drive against the Patriots was huge as he was highly involved in the change that was never overcome by the opposing team. That being said, it was also the game that was iced by two TDs by Boldin on difficult grabs. All-in-all, Pitta converted two 3rd downs the entire postseason, one leading to a score and the other leading to a punt. He had one grab that was contested at the catch point, and another where he was blasted immediately after the catch. Most, if not all, of the remaining catches weren't contested. We all know that in his prime and at his best, Pitta was outstanding in his timing and execution in contested situations. We just didn't see much of those opportunities during the SuperBowl run. In comparison, Boldin had twice as many 3rd down conversion in the SuperBowl alone, three of which led to scores on those drives. He also had as many contested catches in the title game as Pitta had during the postseason. That's not to take away from Pitta playing well during the playoffs by any means. He was obviously of significant help. But if we're comparing the two performances, Pitta's is arguably a distant second to Boldin's.