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RB Thread

The Greek said:
i just do not trust this team to develop wr's so taking one in the first would seem like a wasted pick with their history. they have done a better job bringing in veterans over the years aside from maclin but it would be nice to get a younger guy like robinson or landry that can be with us for 5-7 years. i actually really like dj moore in the 3rd if he is there to pair with either robinson or landry along with resigning wallace at a fair price would be a big improvement. i am greek so that is where the screen name comes from. hehehe the wire is a great show. i only see maybe 4 -5 teams going defense before us which would drop some top defenders to us at 16.
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I say this time and time again, hoping others can see from my point of view..

Look at who we've drafted at wr. Mark Clayton, he was solid but injuries plagued him, Torrey smith was incredibly raw but he was smart and a hard worker and ended up a damn good addition. Tandon doss had elite hands in college but forgot how to catch in the NFL and had dogshit for brains, uncoachable. Breshad perriman, brickhands and another mushminded individual, also uncoachable. Chris Moore, also brick hands, but a fiery kid with a good head on his shoulders and looks to be developing very nicely, he's been coached up for sure and shows good separation and ball attacking, if he could hang on to the ball he would be very solid.

Point is, you can't always tell if a player is uncoachable. We drafted a few uncoachable WRs and they didn't pan out, we've drafted some other guys who actually developed and overachieved, a few boneheads who can't retain coaching doesn't mean we shouldn't draft a wr ever again, it means you have to change your valued traits. Go for hands, refinement, smarts, passion, mental toughness, rather than speed and size, which is obviously the 2 main traits we've scouted for.

Ridley, Miller, Kirk, st brown, Washington, Gallup, Ced Wilson, Auden Tate, all guys who have safe prerequisites and appear to be coachable. All of them either have reliable hands, quality routes, good understanding and awareness, fire and competitiveness, etc. they have coachable traits. They are polar opposites of guys like Perriman who are pure height/speed projects with uncoachable mindsets.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I say this time and time again, hoping others can see from my point of view..

Look at who we've drafted at wr. Mark Clayton, he was solid but injuries plagued him, Torrey smith was incredibly raw but he was smart and a hard worker and ended up a damn good addition. Tandon doss had elite hands in college but forgot how to catch in the NFL and had dogshit for brains, uncoachable. Breshad perriman, brickhands and another mushminded individual, also uncoachable. Chris Moore, also brick hands, but a fiery kid with a good head on his shoulders and looks to be developing very nicely, he's been coached up for sure and shows good separation and ball attacking, if he could hang on to the ball he would be very solid.

Point is, you can't always tell if a player is uncoachable. We drafted a few uncoachable WRs and they didn't pan out, we've drafted some other guys who actually developed and overachieved, a few boneheads who can't retain coaching doesn't mean we shouldn't draft a wr ever again, it means you have to change your valued traits. Go for hands, refinement, smarts, passion, mental toughness, rather than speed and size, which is obviously the 2 main traits we've scouted for.

Ridley, Miller, Kirk, st brown, Washington, Gallup, Ced Wilson, Auden Tate, all guys who have safe prerequisites and appear to be coachable. All of them either have reliable hands, quality routes, good understanding and awareness, fire and competitiveness, etc. they have coachable traits. They are polar opposites of guys like Perriman who are pure height/speed projects with uncoachable mindsets.
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i have to agree with you. i like auden tate and miller but i still feel because of all the qb's that will go before us and possibly some other offensive players like ridley, barkley, nelson and some tackles that grabbing a def player will be the play to make than go offense the next few rounds.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I say this time and time again, hoping others can see from my point of view..

Look at who we've drafted at wr. Mark Clayton, he was solid but injuries plagued him, Torrey smith was incredibly raw but he was smart and a hard worker and ended up a damn good addition. Tandon doss had elite hands in college but forgot how to catch in the NFL and had dogshit for brains, uncoachable. Breshad perriman, brickhands and another mushminded individual, also uncoachable. Chris Moore, also brick hands, but a fiery kid with a good head on his shoulders and looks to be developing very nicely, he's been coached up for sure and shows good separation and ball attacking, if he could hang on to the ball he would be very solid.

Point is, you can't always tell if a player is uncoachable. We drafted a few uncoachable WRs and they didn't pan out, we've drafted some other guys who actually developed and overachieved, a few boneheads who can't retain coaching doesn't mean we shouldn't draft a wr ever again, it means you have to change your valued traits. Go for hands, refinement, smarts, passion, mental toughness, rather than speed and size, which is obviously the 2 main traits we've scouted for.

Ridley, Miller, Kirk, st brown, Washington, Gallup, Ced Wilson, Auden Tate, all guys who have safe prerequisites and appear to be coachable. All of them either have reliable hands, quality routes, good understanding and awareness, fire and competitiveness, etc. they have coachable traits. They are polar opposites of guys like Perriman who are pure height/speed projects with uncoachable mindsets.
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the other big reason that it seems like we cant draft receivers high is because we do it so infrequently that every success/failure is magnified as a proportion of the whole - look at other teams, many of whom will have had just as many unsuccessful wr picks in the same period of time but they get away with it because they pick more wrs and occasionally one turns out well...

when you nail a pick the previous failures quickly seem less important
 
The Greek said:
i have to agree with you. i like auden tate and miller but i still feel because of all the qb's that will go before us and possibly some other offensive players like ridley, barkley, nelson and some tackles that grabbing a def player will be the play to make than go offense the next few rounds.
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That's the way this draft is shaping up. It's going to be either OL, either defense in the first round. Unless the team falls in love with a receiver like Sutton or Cain
 
Going by DeCosta's interview and assuming it wasn't a smoke screen, if Guice is there we're taking him. He's a gifted RB and is the toughest player I've ever scouted. The guy takes punishing hits one after the other and doesn't even flinch. Game breaker and offense changer.
 
Jacquouille said:
Going by DeCosta's interview and assuming it wasn't a smoke screen, if Guice is there we're taking him. He's a gifted RB and is the toughest player I've ever scouted. The guy takes punishing hits one after the other and doesn't even flinch. Game breaker and offense changer.
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I like our RBs, but I can see the appeal of Guice as a guy that would bring some real fire and toughness to our offense. But if we take him, then I hope we also grab at least one good interior lineman in the 2nd, then I guess the best WRs and TE we can grab in the 3rd and 4th.
 
Weird that Guice is so much more talented than Fournette was and yet we’re talking about him falling to 16 when Fournette when #4 overall. That was a huge reach by the Jaguars.
 
Justdewinit20 said:
Weird that Guice is so much more talented than Fournette was and yet we’re talking about him falling to 16 when Fournette when #4 overall. That was a huge reach by the Jaguars.
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Guice is gonna rise, it's bound to happen. A guy of that caliber just doesn't stay that low for long, look at zeke, guice is every bit as talented and he was projected in the 2nd this time 2 years ago
 
Speaking of guice, I haven't watched real film on him til just now, only highlights.

This game he had vs ole miss, wow. He's showing incredible vision and anticipation, I mean on the first drive there was an edge guy who just slipped past and got enough of a hand on him to spin him, but even with him turned away from the line of scrimmage he keeps his head turned upfield, he sees a potential hole, gets his footing and speeds through it and drags tacklers to the first down marker. I'm pausing and surveying the front right after the snap and saying "he needs to hit this hole" and he fucking hits it everytime. It's like he has all-22 vision in his head from the backfield, he anticipates every hole perfectly and executes the cut to hit it, and then finishes every run strong. He keeps his eyes upfield, he keeps his legs churning and shoulders low, makes strong open field cuts, breakaway speed, he's got it all.

I liked him based on highlights but they don't do him justice. This kid might take a massive leap up my boards.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Speaking of guice, I haven't watched real film on him til just now, only highlights.

This game he had vs ole miss, wow. He's showing incredible vision and anticipation, I mean on the first drive there was an edge guy who just slipped past and got enough of a hand on him to spin him, but even with him turned away from the line of scrimmage he keeps his head turned upfield, he sees a potential hole, gets his footing and speeds through it and drags tacklers to the first down marker. I'm pausing and surveying the front right after the snap and saying "he needs to hit this hole" and he fucking hits it everytime. It's like he has all-22 vision in his head from the backfield, he anticipates every hole perfectly and executes the cut to hit it, and then finishes every run strong. He keeps his eyes upfield, he keeps his legs churning and shoulders low, makes strong open field cuts, breakaway speed, he's got it all.

I liked him based on highlights but they don't do him justice. This kid might take a massive leap up my boards.
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To be fair the Ole Miss run defense is horrible. But yeah, he's good.
 
I just talked with a draft nerd who didn't list Michel in his top 10. He said he has a bad vision and he gets 4yds just because of Georgias great offensive line. Michel also had an ACL tear and shoulder issues.

I didn't watch his film yet, but I saw during the regular season a playmaker and he breaks a lot of tackles. Is he really that overhyped by the media? Where do you have him ranked?
 
cdp said:
I just talked with a draft nerd who didn't list Michel in his top 10. He said he has a bad vision and he gets 4yds just because of Georgias great offensive line. Michel also had an ACL tear and shoulder issues.

I didn't watch his film yet, but I saw during the regular season a playmaker and he breaks a lot of tackles. Is he really that overhyped by the media? Where do you have him ranked?
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I don't have rankings yet but he'd be between 4 and 6. I think he's a slight bit overrated because all the media guys loved him as a sleeper and when he broke out he becameis everyone's guy. That's not to say he's bad. He's good. Disciplined and smart in any scheme, with the juice to break a long one when a hole is there. Just a crafty, polished player with above average athleticism.
 
I've watched three Darreus Guice games from 2017. What am I not seeing that seems obvious to everyone?

I see a guy who is certainly adequate picking up blitzers on third down but who offers not much as a pass catcher and who is pedestrian as a route runner..

Very little make you miss. Great backs aren't brought down as frequently as he is one On one. Not particularly fast around the edge...takes On contact when he could, in theory juke a guy.

A great power back. Clearly a lot to like in that regard....doesn't look like a guy I would take at sixteen based on those three games.
 
Edgar said:
I've watched three Darreus Guice games from 2017. What am I not seeing that seems obvious to everyone?

I see a guy who is certainly adequate picking up blitzers on third down but who offers not much as a pass catcher and who is pedestrian as a route runner..

Very little make you miss. Great backs aren't brought down as frequently as he is one On one. Not particularly fast around the edge...takes On contact when he could, in theory juke a guy.

A great power back. Clearly a lot to like in that regard....doesn't look like a guy I would take at sixteen based on those three games.
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You have to watch his 2016 tape vs the injured 2017 tape. I wouldn’t be upset if he was our pick. I’d rather wr / OL though.
 
Jacquouille said:
I don't have rankings yet but he'd be between 4 and 6. I think he's a slight bit overrated because all the media guys loved him as a sleeper and when he broke out he becameis everyone's guy. That's not to say he's bad. He's good. Disciplined and smart in any scheme, with the juice to break a long one when a hole is there. Just a crafty, polished player with above average athleticism.
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He's tj yeldon, who I immediately pegged him as a comparison from the first time I watched him. Makes effective subtle cuts without breaking stride/losing speed, good acceleration, combines a good running motion with subtle elusiveness that allows tacklers to lay hands on him but never get a clean tackle, has all the 3rd down tools.

Any disagreements there?
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
He's tj yeldon, who I immediately pegged him as a comparison from the first time I watched him. Makes effective subtle cuts without breaking stride/losing speed, good acceleration, combines a good running motion with subtle elusiveness that allows tacklers to lay hands on him but never get a clean tackle, has all the 3rd down tools.

Any disagreements there?
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Wasn't into football when Yeldon came in so I can't really say what he was like as a prospect. Based on what I saw from Yeldon as a pro I could see the comp but my hope is that he becomes more than Yeldon in the NFL. I have him as a late 2nd round. I think he has more breakaway speed than Yeldon and finishes better.
 
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