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The 2021 Offseason Thread

rossihunter2 said:
i think that misunderstands how much hollywood, watkins and bateman would/will play in the slot - they'll all play there - duvernay won't play x but he will play z or some slot - but those 3 ahead of him in the depth chart will play all 3 spots depending on play design etc.

i think proche's got a chance to carve himself out a niche but duvernay's already got a ton of snaps and yes we've added 2 WRs to the room since last year but we've also lost snead and dez and boykin's not gonna be taking those snaps anymore either and add that to the fact that he hardly played down the stretch and i think he's gonna be playing a lot - i think he could see ~40% of the offensive snaps - i dont think proche's getting near that
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If Duvernay is getting 40% of the snaps, I'd be surprised. I could be just totally wrong here, but I think there's a much better chance that Proche picks up the Snead role from the last few years than Duvernay playing a ton of offense.

My only thoughts here is that I think Lamar and GRo like that Snead role and Proche can fill it. There's just generally more competition now. If you think that Watkins and Bateman are also going to play in that Snead role, then I'd understand why you disagreed with my initial comment.

We just haven't seen what this offense looks like so it is a bit hard to know. I'm just guessing here.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Right but it depends on the situation and what "young guy" we're talking about. It may not be a young guy at all. It may just mean a young Secondary player gets a roster spot over somebody like Miles Boykin, whom we could keep for 3-4 weeks and then release, or we could just release him at cuts and not worry about it.

Sure, we did it with Forsett. And there's a reason it's been five years since we've done it, and I'd also point to the fact that Forsett made it on the roster for all of like a month before we cut him again, permanently. And that may play out in whatever decisions are made between the "veteran" they're cutting and then bringing back. They may tell them "it's only a procedural thing" and then realize that can turn into a permanent thing just weeks later. That's why it's not done that frequently.
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I never said they are absolutely going to do this. Just opens up the possibility. Maybe they want the 10th OL with all of the health issues. Maybe they do want a 7th WR for the time being. Maybe something else happens between now and then.

God you like to argue for no reason sometimes.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I understand this. My point is whatever fringe roster player I'm "keeping" for this... what is that player going to do? Most likely be a gameday inactive for those weeks anyway? So I'm not even sure how that player is benefiting me on Sunday, and if he is, then he likely won't be the one getting cut when Bateman returns.

I mean its not exactly position for position (since that's not how teams look at things), but if Bateman goes on IR, it would mean we would potentially carry another WR, since we're down one.
So hypothetically we want to carry six receivers on the 53 man. Bateman goes to IR. Who are the six receivers? Hollywood, Duvernay, Watkins, Wallace look like the four locks. Bateman would be the 5th, but he's on IR. So you've got two spots left. Proche is having a hell of a camp by all accounts, so he gets a spot. So it's your sixth guy, who lets just say, is Boykin.

Are we dressing six on gameday? Highly doubt it. That fringe roster player we kept is likely in street clothes on Sunday, and then we're dropping him when Bateman returns. He provides no value on Sunday. I think you could say that for just about any player, regardless of position, since there's 5 guys per week who won't dress.

Which is why I say... what's the point? The only way that makes sense is if you get to a point at cut time when you realize Bateman isn't playing by week 3. Then sure, if the guy isn't coming back in 3 weeks, put him on IR. If I think I have a chance of him being active in week 2 or week 3, I'm not putting him on IR just to keep a fringe roster player who won't play on Sunday's. Said player still has to go on waivers in week 4 or whenever we cut, and they may even have a better chance of making somebody else's team at that point.
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you can't put Bateman on IR prior to the cut and expect to bring him back. He has to make the final 53 then two days later put him on IR. It's only the players put on IR after cut down day that are eligible to return.
 
UPennChem said:
If Duvernay is getting 40% of the snaps, I'd be surprised. I could be just totally wrong here, but I think there's a much better chance that Proche picks up the Snead role from the last few years than Duvernay playing a ton of offense.

My only thoughts here is that I think Lamar and GRo like that Snead role and Proche can fill it. There's just generally more competition now. If you think that Watkins and Bateman are also going to play in that Snead role, then I'd understand why you disagreed with my initial comment.

We just haven't seen what this offense looks like so it is a bit hard to know. I'm just guessing here.
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i mean duvernay had 33% of the offensive snaps last year... i think people forget how much he was playing...

i do think proche takes some of those willie snead snaps for sure but i do think that much of those snead slot snaps are gonna be taken over by watkins and bateman - especially watkins on those early running downs where we used to motion snead across to become a +1 blocker (i think that's gonna be watkins)

i basically envision duvernay in that sort of jacoby jones type of snaps role - the returner and secondary deep threat (in the way that jacoby was a secondary deep threat with torrey smith) - and i think we saw in 2012 jacoby had around 40% of the offensive snaps
 
RavensMania said:
you can't put Bateman on IR prior to the cut and expect to bring him back. He has to make the final 53 then two days later put him on IR. It's only the players put on IR after cut down day that are eligible to return.
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Right, but you'll know by cut down day who you want and who you don't, and you'll have a better understanding of his recovery timeline at that point.

The timing of the cuts I understand, but it's about what you know about his injury at that point.
 
rossihunter2 said:
i mean duvernay had 33% of the offensive snaps last year... i think people forget how much he was playing...

i do think proche takes some of those willie snead snaps for sure but i do think that much of those snead slot snaps are gonna be taken over by watkins and bateman - especially watkins on those early running downs where we used to motion snead across to become a +1 blocker (i think that's gonna be watkins)

i basically envision duvernay in that sort of jacoby jones type of snaps role - the returner and secondary deep threat (in the way that jacoby was a secondary deep threat with torrey smith) - and i think we saw in 2012 jacoby had around 40% of the offensive snaps
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Ok I can totally see that. I definitely didn't realize Duv had 33% of the snaps last year. It seemed like he wasn't super involved. Hopefully the new coaches can help his route running.
 
rossihunter2 said:


slightly less optimistic recovery timeline from this guy...
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I’m going to say he comes back after our Bye Week. Just enough time for Boykin to make some play and build up some trade value for a 5th round pick. EDC then flips that 5th for Von Miller next year. Don’t quote me
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Right, but you'll know by cut down day who you want and who you don't, and you'll have a better understanding of his recovery timeline at that point.

The timing of the cuts I understand, but it's about what you know about his injury at that point.
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It didn't seem like that, by how you were explaining it, but I should have known you already knew that :)
 
Davesta said:
I’m going to say he comes back after our Bye Week. Just enough time for Boykin to make some play and build up some trade value for a 5th round pick. EDC then flips that 5th for Von Miller next year. Don’t quote me
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I mean I guess they could both be right. Like I could see Bateman getting activated ahead of Week 4, but not actually playing until 5 or 6. There's plenty of guys who come off IR and need a couple weeks of practice before they're game eligible.

In John's mind, he may be referencing when he'll return to the practice field, not returning to game action. They could be different things.

If it really was like an 8 week timetable for recovery, I doubt he would have said September.
 
UPennChem said:
Ok I can totally see that. I definitely didn't realize Duv had 33% of the snaps last year. It seemed like he wasn't super involved. Hopefully the new coaches can help his route running.
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down the stretch when dez came in and boyking came back into the lineup his snaps were majorly reduced post-covid games - think he probably hit the rookie wall and then also the re-emphasis on running the ball probably didnt play to his strengths - if we're motioning snead a ton or eric tomlinson or ricard we cant also motion duvernay at the same time

and for what it's worth it sounds like his releases are massively improved under keith williams
 
rossihunter2 said:
down the stretch when dez came in and boyking came back into the lineup his snaps were majorly reduced post-covid games - think he probably hit the rookie wall and then also the re-emphasis on running the ball probably didnt play to his strengths - if we're motioning snead a ton or eric tomlinson or ricard we cant also motion duvernay at the same time

and for what it's worth it sounds like his releases are massively improved under keith williams
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Makes sense. Well he's got great athleticism and good hands. If he can run routes more effectively then he could be a really good player. That would be a really strong data point of the new Ravens system is capable of developing young receivers, something it really hasn't been able to do.
 
UPennChem said:
Makes sense. Well he's got great athleticism and good hands. If he can run routes more effectively then he could be a really good player. That would be a really strong data point of the new Ravens system is capable of developing young receivers, something it really hasn't been able to do.
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i think also maybe not overburdening him with a whole route-tree but giving him the tools to be successful at the line with his releases and then have a bunch of routes he's good at working off of those releases - he's not gonna suddenly be running a complex route tree but a range of deep routes from different alignments with some backside slants and some manufactured touches on screens or end-arounds etc. would be a great way of stretching the defence
 
rossihunter2 said:
just reading Jeff Zrebiec's observations and this feels like a big note buried within everything else:

Then, about an hour into practice, third-round selection Ben Cleveland, the favorite to start at left guard

since when has cleveland been the favourite? that would/should be major news lol if that's how it's looking - havent got that impression from anywhere else but would be cool if he's progressed far enough to not only be in the competition but actively winning it...
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Since I decreed it days/weeks after the draft. Accept it, love it.
 
In other news: don’t forget there’s preseason games tonight.
I only bring this up because it’s the return of Joe Flacco. QB1 of the Eagles.
 
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