Nba loves lebron. They didnt love kobe at first so he raped out of like 3 mvps
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Shutouts
- Thread starter JoeyFlex5
- Start date
you are so right!! Lets say we do make the playoffs... we arent gonna make it far and when we do lose people are gonna be pissed and talking shyt as if they didnt know how terrible and inconsistent we were from the get go!
Vehemently disagree.
We've seen what a Matt Cassell or Jimmy G can do for that team. They can win 70% of games.
Not to mention TB has weapons out the ass and an amazing defense.
Rodgers truly shoulders his team.
Yes the 23-0 win proved that even more
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Ehh good point
They can win games with those guys because they coach well and they adjust to their strengths and have always got good talent around them
But the offence is never fully opened up without Brady (the closest is jimmy g’s 2 game stint where he looked like the best player on the field - but he could well be a franchise qb), brisset, cassel, Hoyer all limited the offence in some way
To suggest Tom Brady isn’t a perennial MVP candidate just because New England happens to coach it’s backups well (and scheme for them well) feels absurd to me
Well, Brisset looks serviceable, and what are Hoyer and Cassel really doing after NE anyway? Not much.
Matt Cassel hadn't started in SEVEN years. He had last started in high school and threw something like 50 passes between the pros and college, but here he comes and goes 11-5 as a starter. That's... unreal.
Yeah, of course missing your starter is going to limit your playbook when you have Cassel or Hoyer as your backup.
If Brady is truly the greatest quarterback ever, largely based on his ability to win, then we should see the Patriots collapsing, right? They should not be able to win without him, but here they are winning 70% of their games.
MVP is Most VALUABLE Player. What does it say about your value when your team wins 70% of the games without you? Yeah, sure, he's great for NE and he wins a lot and makes them better, but they don't need him to win. Want to put him in the perennial OPOY conversation? Go for it.
The Colts lose Peyton Manning for a season and go 2-14. The Patriots lose Brady for a season and go 11-5. It's crazy.
I mean, really- does Brady look even remotely this good on another team? If the Browns drafted him, do we see this?
That’s a fair way of looking at it - but then id say he should win offensive player of the year virtually every year if not the MVP
Sledge Hammer
Pro Bowler
I offered a $100 bet with a friend the packers won't win any games. I said for couple years now packer management is incompetent. That is a 2-14team without Rodgers!!maybe1-15
We all know how inconsistent we are. Sammy Davis Jr, could see that
That’s a pretty stupid bet to make. They even beat the Bears with Hundley. 1 or 2 isn’t none.
even stevie wonder could see that...
Well I was using the term that Sammy Davis jr could see it from his grave, but I like yours better.
Liberaci could see that
ive heard of 3 mice who can see that too
TheCity5
MVP
It just really annoys me how people act like Brady does this by himself. He really is always surrounded with great talent. The Patriots do a great job of building depth at WR and the OL. The fact that Cassell got them 11 wins and Garrappalo/Brissett got them 4 just makes that argument that he's an every year MVP invalid. Aaron Rodgers to me is an MVP every year given that his team is practically nothing, it's not just this year it's also 2013 when the Packers nearly missed the playoffs after starting 5-2. They lost four of their next five and the one game they didn't lose, they tied.
Add that on to this year and there's no doubt in my mind the guy is the best player in the league and might end up the greatest ever, of course he still needs more rings to his resume and I know it's been a drought but let's not forget Tom Brady went on a 9 year SB drought. I think he's definitely going to win one or two more titles.
And that's fine. I think there's generally a handful of guys you can look at every single year and count on for OPoY.
MVP is just really fluid.
DeVito52
Ravens Ring of Honor
You may be right, Brady might not be the most valuable player on any team.
But to say “If Brady is truly the greatest quarterback ever, largely based on his ability to win, then we should see the Patriots collapsing, right? They should not be able to win without him, but here they are winning 70% of their games.”
That’s just illogical. So he’s not a great QB because the rest of his team is really good? Um what? You’re gonna penalize the guy for having a good supporting cast? So Matt Ryan isn’t good because he has great weapons. So i guess Peyton Manning wasn’t great because he had stacked offenses.
The year Cassel started he by no means was a world beater. He had a QBR of 65. He managed the games and got the team to 11 wins. They had a top 10 defense. Oh he also had the luxury of throwing the ball to one of the greatest WR ever in Randy Moss.
Is it also his fault his backup QBs are literally always the best in the league? Brisset is a good quarterback. Hoyer has proved he’s at least average when not on a horrible team. Jimmy G has incredible potential.
So, again, tell me how it’s fair to say he can’t be one of the greatest because his team isn’t absolute garbage when he’s out lmao.
Ryan had Julio Jones and... Peyton Manning didn't have stacked offenses consistently, though, and it really didn't matter who you put out there with Manning. Manning was doing his job at an incredibly high level to every single receiver who walked in that door.
But when did Brady rise into statistical relevance? It was when the team acquired Moss and Welker and they never looked back on signing top tier talent to catch passes and it's paid off.
Yes, I do penalize him for the team doing well without him. Hoyer has proved nothing other than he's a backup quality quarterback. Cassel not being a world beater is my exact point. Somehow NE finds a way to elevate the play of their players to new heights so consistently. Dude had not started a game since high school and comes into the NFL and finds a way to finish top 10 in passing yards, passer rating, and touchdowns. You do understand how incredible that is, don't you? Oh, and it wasn't like he was an often used quarterback in college or the pros, either. He had thrown less than 50 meaningful passes to that point between college and the pros.
If NE consistently has the best backups in the entire NFL while they play in NE and then they flounder and fail elsewhere, what would this say about NE's coaching and development?
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