The Perfect Offensive Coordinator for Lamar

[UPennChem]

Let me start of by saying, this is not one of those fire Greg Roman threads. I'm not one of those guys. However, I've really been thinking about the team and some of the data we've got over the season.

Observables:
1) Lamar Jackson has tremendously improved as a traditional passers albeit his athleticism certainly helps make magic happen.

2) We have shown that we can use the pass to come from behind to win.

3) This is by far the best set of weapons Lamar has ever had to work with.

4) When Lamar gets sacked, they're almost always coverage sacks indicating his guys just aren't open.

It's the contraindication between 3 and 4 that gets me. Do not get me wrong, I understand you can't be open every play. If you were you would automatically win the superbowl. However, I've seen more material that the passing concepts still aren't great. Additionally it's clear Lamar is not enough to just make the run game work. It's been abysmal this season and we know why.

So this leads me to the point of this thread. I'm not talking theoretically, but rather pragmatically when I ask, what could the Ravens do to provide Lamar Jackson with the best OC and coaching in general?

The idea that I'm kind of thinking is this. What if because Roman is literally a run genius and also a great assett in general, we make him running game specialist. I believe he was this position a few years ago. Then we try and bring in someone who is a very traditionally pass savvy OC who understands the task that he's coming to do with the Ravens. Then we literally have that guy and Roman work together to create a playbook that incorporates ideas from both of their minds.

I know at first this can sound kind of silly but we often in the NFL see big dichotomies. You've got teams like KC, Pitt who never run or teams like Tenn or SEA who pass a ton of play action due to running the ball well. I think it's very hard to be a so called total offensive genius.

We have a running game genius. Why not try and bring in a passing game genius. Lamar is capable of being elite at both. Providing him with a team of 2 guys that can maximize his talent is the idea here. Let me know if you think I'm crazy. Or if you don't, please suggest some guys you think could fill this role.

 

[rmcjacket23]

1. I don't see a name on here. So who, exactly, is the perfect OC for Lamar?
2. Pretty much any OC worth a shit at this point in the NFL is going to want to be a HC within 2-3 years, and will likely achieve that with any sort of success.
3. I don't have much criticism for Roman for 2021 at this point, so it doesn't seem logical to me to bring up improvement at OC when there's like 20 other things that need fixed first.
4. If you demote Roman, which is precisely what you'd be doing here, he'll just leave for an OC job somewhere else.

 

[UPennChem]

1. I don't see a name on here. So who, exactly, is the perfect OC for Lamar?
2. Pretty much any OC worth a shit at this point in the NFL is going to want to be a HC within 2-3 years, and will likely achieve that with any sort of success.
3. I don't have much criticism for Roman for 2021 at this point, so it doesn't seem logical to me to bring up improvement at OC when there's like 20 other things that need fixed first.
4. If you demote Roman, which is precisely what you'd be doing here, he'll just leave for an OC job somewhere else.

What you're saying is fair, but I think based on the way I wrote it, you missed the spirit of what I was getting after. That's my fault.

The perfect OC very well may be Greg Roman. What I was trying to convey is we are sort of blessed with having Lamar Jackson, a true dual threat QB. We've over his tenure just never had the running and passing game going at the same time even though we have demonstrated the ability to do both.

The question is who is the best OC that can extract the most out of Lamar. That's how we'll win a superbowl. If it's GRo, how can we help him to have the passing concepts improve so that we have WRs schemed open more effectively and reduce the number of coverage sacks we take. Keep drives alive and score more points.

The question is trying to get at we have a generational talent, who is the right person or what are the steps that can be taken to get the most out of him.

 

[rossihunter2]

counter point - i think Greg Roman has shown he may well be the perfect OC for Lamar

some of those negatives you're talking about are side effects of slight mis-execution based on having 3rd and 4th string players at some positions on the OL and at RB...

lamar's taking some sacks because Roman has designed a deep passing attack that's aggressive and consistently creates big plays - we are number 1 in the league in explosive plays of over 20+ yards - but that requires some extra time in the pocket and some longer developing plays like on some of those deep over routes because you have to clear the underneath defenders and run the entire width of the field to come open and the side effect of that is that sometimes the pocket becomes too compressed or lamar doesnt quite have enough time - but we're talking fractions here

in terms of some of the route issues - the combinations have been fine, we run a lot of option/choice based route concepts that allow our receivers to change their routes based on the coverages which makes them very difficult to defend 1v1 - and as long as lamar is reading it the same way (which he has been mostly) then this is really difficult to defend - but you take the side effect there which is that especially when Mark Andrews has basically been given a ton of free reign over the middle that sometimes the spacing wont be ideal or a couple of guys might option into the same space - again im happy to take that tradeoff because lamar's accurate enough to fit the ball into tight windows especially over the middle

and i think you're misreading what's happening upfront - im seeing a ton of quick pressure that lamar's escaping which is making you misdiagnose the problem on a lot of these pressures and sacks - yes sometimes lamar's holding onto the ball a long time but i think you'd find that that's most often happening on 3rd and long - and sometimes that results in a loss of 3 points but id rather lamar were aggressive in those situations and occasionally take that sack for the possibility of extending a drive or getting a big play

I think Roman's proven that with Lamar and these weapons and an under-manned OL and backfield he can still craft a top 5 offence - not bad for someone who's supposedly just a run guru - if you go back to his bills and even 49ers days you see that they showed signs of getting to this kind of passing game but never had the QB to pull it off - Tyrod and the bills had an efficient and explosive but low volume passing attack behind an effective running game - we hadnt really seen that deep ball passing offence with lamar until this year and lamar is exponentially more talented than tyrod and kaepernick as a passer

i guess my question is... what is it that you think we're missing that Roman isnt providing right now? This passing game is lethal whenever lamar has time, and Roman has done well to manufacture time for him despite unreliable and not particularly great play from both tackle spots. The running game has been dead on arrival except when lamar runs - but not sure you can find any OC in the league who'd be able to craft a more effective running game out of the spare parts we've had to make ours with... despite all the losses (and i readily admit yards arent everything and with byes volume stats become more complicated but they are indicative of the ability to move the ball up and down the field) we're 5th in passing yards and 3rd in rushing yards and 3rd in yards overall

 

[UPennChem]

counter point - i think Greg Roman has shown he may well be the perfect OC for Lamar

some of those negatives you're talking about are side effects of slight mis-execution based on having 3rd and 4th string players at some positions on the OL and at RB...

lamar's taking some sacks because Roman has designed a deep passing attack that's aggressive and consistently creates big plays - we are number 1 in the league in explosive plays of over 20+ yards - but that requires some extra time in the pocket and some longer developing plays like on some of those deep over routes because you have to clear the underneath defenders and run the entire width of the field to come open and the side effect of that is that sometimes the pocket becomes too compressed or lamar doesnt quite have enough time - but we're talking fractions here

in terms of some of the route issues - the combinations have been fine, we run a lot of option/choice based route concepts that allow our receivers to change their routes based on the coverages which makes them very difficult to defend 1v1 - and as long as lamar is reading it the same way (which he has been mostly) then this is really difficult to defend - but you take the side effect there which is that especially when Mark Andrews has basically been given a ton of free reign over the middle that sometimes the spacing wont be ideal or a couple of guys might option into the same space - again im happy to take that tradeoff because lamar's accurate enough to fit the ball into tight windows especially over the middle

and i think you're misreading what's happening upfront - im seeing a ton of quick pressure that lamar's escaping which is making you misdiagnose the problem on a lot of these pressures and sacks - yes sometimes lamar's holding onto the ball a long time but i think you'd find that that's most often happening on 3rd and long - and sometimes that results in a loss of 3 points but id rather lamar were aggressive in those situations and occasionally take that sack for the possibility of extending a drive or getting a big play

I think Roman's proven that with Lamar and these weapons and an under-manned OL and backfield he can still craft a top 5 offence - not bad for someone who's supposedly just a run guru - if you go back to his bills and even 49ers days you see that they showed signs of getting to this kind of passing game but never had the QB to pull it off - Tyrod and the bills had an efficient and explosive but low volume passing attack behind an effective running game - we hadnt really seen that deep ball passing offence with lamar until this year and lamar is exponentially more talented than tyrod and kaepernick as a passer

i guess my question is... what is it that you think we're missing that Roman isnt providing right now? This passing game is lethal whenever lamar has time, and Roman has done well to manufacture time for him despite unreliable and not particularly great play from both tackle spots. The running game has been dead on arrival except when lamar runs - but not sure you can find any OC in the league who'd be able to craft a more effective running game out of the spare parts we've had to make ours with... despite all the losses (and i readily admit yards arent everything and with byes volume stats become more complicated but they are indicative of the ability to move the ball up and down the field) we're 5th in passing yards and 3rd in rushing yards and 3rd in yards overall

This all makes sense to me. Again, it's not that I dislike Roman at all. As I said above, Roman very well may be the best possible OC for Lamar. I was just thinking about the fact that Lamar is truly a dual threat, but we've never been able to have a dual threat offense. Maybe that's just too unfair to run given the horrible luck we've had this year.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

This all makes sense to me. Again, it's not that I dislike Roman at all. As I said above, Roman very well may be the best possible OC for Lamar. I was just thinking about the fact that Lamar is truly a dual threat, but we've never been able to have a dual threat offense. Maybe that's just too unfair to run given the horrible luck we've had this year.

Lamar's currently 7th in passing yards and 6th in rushing yards. How much more dual threat can you get?

 

[UPennChem]

Lamar's currently 7th in passing yards and 6th in rushing yards. How much more dual threat can you get?

Everyone is really misinterpreting my point which is an indictment on my post not you guys. It's not to say GRo is bad. It's truly acknowledging exactly what you just said. Lamar is a generational player, basically 2 players in one. He won't be this way forever. And if we commit huge money to him that changes what you can do with the rest of the team. That means we need to go into that with the plan that we think gives us the best chance of winning a superbowl.

With all that being said, I just noted that we've demonstrated that we have been able to either run it or pass it, just not really at the same time. I think it's just unfortunate what happened to our running game this year and that's not on Roman.

Roman very well may be the best OC for Lamar and if that's the case we also need to to do what we can to make sure he stays in town.

 

[rossihunter2]

Everyone is really misinterpreting my point which is an indictment on my post not you guys. It's not to say GRo is bad. It's truly acknowledging exactly what you just said. Lamar is a generational player, basically 2 players in one. He won't be this way forever. And if we commit huge money to him that changes what you can do with the rest of the team. That means we need to go into that with the plan that we think gives us the best chance of winning a superbowl.

With all that being said, I just noted that we've demonstrated that we have been able to either run it or pass it, just not really at the same time. I think it's just unfortunate what happened to our running game this year and that's not on Roman.

Roman very well may be the best OC for Lamar and if that's the case we also need to to do what we can to make sure he stays in town.

i just look at how Roman created the best running game of all time
and then i look at how despite all the injuries, he's managed to build the most explosive passing attack (and offence total) in the NFL

and i see nothing in the way those 2 elements have been constructed that means they couldnt schematically mesh together - i look at the cowboys in 2020 and now in 2021 and i see similarities in that the 2020 cowboys offence looked ready to explode before their injuries and now in 2021 they've got the most "pick your poison" offence in the league now that they have better health

i see that in 2022 for the ravens - all major pieces are under contract next year already except for Bozeman, Watkins and Ricard... with potentially Stanley, Dobbins and Gus to return and free agency and the draft to maybe add even more talent somewhere too

maybe the defence continues to regress and that would be sad but im not sure as it's currently constructed that you can feasibly stop this offence if they can resolve some OL issues/question marks this offseason

and i think Roman's proved he's the man to do it

 

[UPennChem]

i just look at how Roman created the best running game of all time
and then i look at how despite all the injuries, he's managed to build the most explosive passing attack (and offence total) in the NFL

and i see nothing in the way those 2 elements have been constructed that means they couldnt schematically mesh together - i look at the cowboys in 2020 and now in 2021 and i see similarities in that the 2020 cowboys offence looked ready to explode before their injuries and now in 2021 they've got the most "pick your poison" offence in the league now that they have better health

i see that in 2022 for the ravens - all major pieces are under contract next year already except for Bozeman, Watkins and Ricard... with potentially Stanley, Dobbins and Gus to return and free agency and the draft to maybe add even more talent somewhere too

maybe the defence continues to regress and that would be sad but im not sure as it's currently constructed that you can feasibly stop this offence if they can resolve some OL issues/question marks this offseason

and i think Roman's proved he's the man to do it

I'm inclined the Ravens also believe that. I think EDC is a smart guy. Harbs did a great job in recruiting Tee Martin and Keith Williams. EDC will see how this season went and ensure we draft young talent in both trenches and hopefully with some more fortune on the injury front, we can go along way.

 

[RavensMania]

I'm inclined the Ravens also believe that. I think EDC is a smart guy. Harbs did a great job in recruiting Tee Martin and Keith Williams. EDC will see how this season went and ensure we draft young talent in both trenches and hopefully with some more fortune on the injury front, we can go along way.

I'd like to emphasize this. People have criticized Harbs in the past on his assistant hirings. Well he knocked it out of the park with Martin and Williams. Not to mention, Roman and Wink aren't half bad either. Yeah, we've had some issues before, but we have a well coached team all around.