airconteka
MVP
Yeah thats what I meant, any block would have least stopped him being able to catch the tipped ball.
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The Second Half, The First Half and Yet More Overtime
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
Yeah thats what I meant, any block would have least stopped him being able to catch the tipped ball.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Tackling was a lot better this game, that cook run was just a complete lack of edge setting from everyone, followed by poor angles, hell I don’t think anyone even touched cook until he finally got tackled lol
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
We play them this year
heartbreaking that offensive weapon trystan colon didn’t get his first TD
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Any chance safety play actually gets better if Wink goes more conservative with depth players now?
beautiful from queen and madubuike (and ellis too)
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Queen has been looking a lot better. He’s not a mike, that’s fine, let him do this, run free and make plays.
tbf on this play i think technically he is the mike
but they've for sure refined his role and simplified some of it... but they've also given him a veteran presence beside him to help with the calls and steady him and point stuff out - and that's allowed him to think less and attack more
and because he's attacking more and thinking less he's not getting as caught in the trash as he was earlier in the season - he'll still get blown off the ball by guys when they get him in L2 but he's more intuitively sniping past contact and avoiding those guys to get to his gap or to work through the trash
and he made one of the most important plays of the day when he shot through the gap to hit Cook 8 yards in the backfield to basically end that vikings drive immediately - and it meant that a tired vikings defence that had just been on the field for 10 minutes and 18 plays just before had to come back on the field with the scores tied...
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Yup, we took him out of what he did best and yeah it’s not about position but role, mike, will, whatever, when he is going forward and just trying to trigger and attack he is great at it, when he starts backpedaling and playing stationary he falls apart entirely, he’s all go and when you tell him to stop and see/think/read he is useless, he’s just not able to do that right now, it could come with time, but right now we got games to win
i dont have much of an issue with him dropping into coverage or anything either - even when he was playing poorly earlier in the year i still thought his pass coverage feel was better than in 2020 and had improved significantly
by attack i dont mean necessarily just triggering downhill in the running game - i just mean being free from thinking and hesitating - it's as much a mentality/confidence thing as anything else - play with a swagger even in coverage
just needs to not stop his feet and be proactive instead of letting plays just come to him
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I think we’re saying the same exact thing and you’re getting caught up on word choice lol
highly likely lol
marklar
Pro Bowler
After some reflection, I think I was being far too negative about this game, so some updated thoughts 
* The defense was actually pretty good, my perception was too heavily skewed by them getting slaughtered on the first two drives
* The talking heads were probably the best we've had all season. Not a lot of irrelevant crap, not much "star worship" and some interesting thoughts. Sure, they weren't perfect, but compared to some of the morons we've had earlier (Gumbel, Archuleta...) - very good
* If the offense gets off to faster starts and the pass rush can get more consistent pressure, I think this team is going places. But they can't afford sleeping through Q1 against better teams
* Encouraging to see the real Ravens identity show up in Q4/OT with running it down their throats; long drives and just wearing down the opponents. I don't expect that to work very often with this OL and these RBs, but at least we saw that it is possible even this year
* Tucker is the most unflappable human alive. Except for that XP he missed late against the Saints the other year, he simply doesn't know how to miss when the pressure is on
One thing that I don't understand, that perhaps those who know more football than me can explain: Why do we never ever move the pocket for Lamar when we have a weak OL? No rollouts, no bootlegs, no "the entire line steps to the right" kind of plays. Some such variation should make it harder for the opposing pass rush, and I see that from a number of other teams, but never here. Any ideas why?
* The defense was actually pretty good, my perception was too heavily skewed by them getting slaughtered on the first two drives
* The talking heads were probably the best we've had all season. Not a lot of irrelevant crap, not much "star worship" and some interesting thoughts. Sure, they weren't perfect, but compared to some of the morons we've had earlier (Gumbel, Archuleta...) - very good
* If the offense gets off to faster starts and the pass rush can get more consistent pressure, I think this team is going places. But they can't afford sleeping through Q1 against better teams
* Encouraging to see the real Ravens identity show up in Q4/OT with running it down their throats; long drives and just wearing down the opponents. I don't expect that to work very often with this OL and these RBs, but at least we saw that it is possible even this year
* Tucker is the most unflappable human alive. Except for that XP he missed late against the Saints the other year, he simply doesn't know how to miss when the pressure is on
One thing that I don't understand, that perhaps those who know more football than me can explain: Why do we never ever move the pocket for Lamar when we have a weak OL? No rollouts, no bootlegs, no "the entire line steps to the right" kind of plays. Some such variation should make it harder for the opposing pass rush, and I see that from a number of other teams, but never here. Any ideas why?
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
After some reflection, I think I was being far too negative about this game, so some updated thoughts
* The defense was actually pretty good, my perception was too heavily skewed by them getting slaughtered on the first two drives
* The talking heads were probably the best we've had all season. Not a lot of irrelevant crap, not much "star worship" and some interesting thoughts. Sure, they weren't perfect, but compared to some of the morons we've had earlier (Gumbel, Archuleta...) - very good
* If the offense gets off to faster starts and the pass rush can get more consistent pressure, I think this team is going places. But they can't afford sleeping through Q1 against better teams
* Encouraging to see the real Ravens identity show up in Q4/OT with running it down their throats; long drives and just wearing down the opponents. I don't expect that to work very often with this OL and these RBs, but at least we saw that it is possible even this year
* Tucker is the most unflappable human alive. Except for that XP he missed late against the Saints the other year, he simply doesn't know how to miss when the pressure is on
One thing that I don't understand, that perhaps those who know more football than me can explain: Why do we never ever move the pocket for Lamar when we have a weak OL? No rollouts, no bootlegs, no "the entire line steps to the right" kind of plays. Some such variation should make it harder for the opposing pass rush, and I see that from a number of other teams, but never here. Any ideas why?
Interesting you bring that last point up. I was thinking the same thing after seeing how the Rams were far more able to handle the Titans pressure this week by doing that in the second half. Obviously too much of anything is probably a bad idea, but might help once in awhile.
After some reflection, I think I was being far too negative about this game, so some updated thoughts
* The defense was actually pretty good, my perception was too heavily skewed by them getting slaughtered on the first two drives
* The talking heads were probably the best we've had all season. Not a lot of irrelevant crap, not much "star worship" and some interesting thoughts. Sure, they weren't perfect, but compared to some of the morons we've had earlier (Gumbel, Archuleta...) - very good
* If the offense gets off to faster starts and the pass rush can get more consistent pressure, I think this team is going places. But they can't afford sleeping through Q1 against better teams
* Encouraging to see the real Ravens identity show up in Q4/OT with running it down their throats; long drives and just wearing down the opponents. I don't expect that to work very often with this OL and these RBs, but at least we saw that it is possible even this year
* Tucker is the most unflappable human alive. Except for that XP he missed late against the Saints the other year, he simply doesn't know how to miss when the pressure is on
One thing that I don't understand, that perhaps those who know more football than me can explain: Why do we never ever move the pocket for Lamar when we have a weak OL? No rollouts, no bootlegs, no "the entire line steps to the right" kind of plays. Some such variation should make it harder for the opposing pass rush, and I see that from a number of other teams, but never here. Any ideas why?
they had the really interesting nugget about roman not scripting plays anymore because defences dont play the ravens the same as they play anyone else so it's difficult to know what they'll show us - and i think that might be partly why we're not so great in the 1st quarter right now because teams are often playing in a completely different way to how they normally play on defence and unlike previous years we don't have the running backs or OL or nick boyle to just make the run game work if a team sells out
i think it's also why we've been so great in Q4 and OT situations - especially during comebacks - because once we've figured out a defence, there's basically nothing they can do to stop us except hope we make a mistake (e.g. the vikings INT off the lack of a cutblock by Freeman)
we do do that - and it's one of my least favourite plays @JoeyFlex5 i know hates it too - we've done it so often over the past 3 years in high leverage situations where we roll out right - sometimes it creates a big play but so often it feels like the play's dead straight away
and i hate how it completely eliminates half the field - we've got so much speed on offence that feels like we're handicapping ourselves...
we do run a ton of play-action - but hard to bootleg out of shotgun as effectively as under centre which we dont run a ton of (albeit we run it more than we ever have with lamar) - the other reason is because often lamar's got great pocket feel so he can rollout to avoid pressure and simulate that same effect on the scramble drill
but worth pointing out that we've done a lot of play-action max protect this year and it's created a really nice pocket for lamar and allowed for some big plays - that bomb to hollywood against the broncos being a prime example
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I know exactly the play you're talking about. I don't think we've run it once this year though. We did run it constantly in the past though.
we scored a deep TD to andrews on it against the broncos but it was called back because of an andre smith facemask - probably the best ive seen it work but it relied on a coverage bust basically
i definitely think we've run it a few times this year - but maybe not since the broncos game...
marklar
Pro Bowler
I think I know which play type you mean, the sort of "QB sprint out right, throw to a receiver short in the flats" that I also seem to remember being used on 3rd/4th down with very little success. If that's the one you mean, then I agree I don't want to see that one.
I was more thinking of just changing the launch point by e.g. getting the QB (and potentially the line) moving right 5m, but still look downfield. That said, my football terminology isn't that great so perhaps I'm not able to describe what I mean, but I feel I see other teams just sliding the pocket on occasion to confuse the rush without taking away most of the field like in the "sprint out" play.
What I've felt in the last few games is that we've at times pretty much trapped Jackson in the pocket which has been the plays that have ended up in sacks. And adding a bit of a confusion on *where* the pocket will be might slow down the rush. That said, I don't claim to know these things, just guessing out of my rear end...
id be very interested to know what percentage of lamar's sacks happen on 3rd down - because my guess is it's a very high proportion... and i think that would be somewhat more related to why we see lamar "trapped" on some of those sacks
i do know what play you're talking about though - but for whatever reason i dont think the ravens have done it very often at all and i wonder if it's easier to do with a zone running team where the OL are more likely to be moving laterally anyway so part of the deception is maintained post-snap
the ravens equivalent play (my guess) would be pulling the guard across the line to pass protect vs the EDGE (or a blitz) off play-action
but i may be wrong - it's a play that ive never really understood why or how it works - my guess is that if the ravens tried it we'd find that our OL aren't particularly good moving laterally and you'd find DL knifing through gaps into the backfield even easier but that's just my guess
i think the other thing is - i like how lamar operates within the pocket and the quicker we let him get to his set-point, the quicker he's able to throw