OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Oddly specific
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The Defence, the Turnovers, and the Tucker
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
JAAM
Hall of Famer
My point remains. Tank’s a dingleberry that will never put blame on Harbaugh/any of the coaches or Tucker. It’s always squarely on Lamar.
JAAM
Hall of Famer
No clue, but he pretty much alluded to it a while ago. Me and a couple others who call him out
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I could be wrong but I think he's just a boomer
JAAM
Hall of Famer
He is. And I thought you’re supposed to become wiser as you age
JAAM
Hall of Famer
Don’t ever leave me again
JAAM
Hall of Famer
It’s like he never left
I would push back on the last part a bit.
Juwaan Taylor in KC was a penalty machine last year due to jumping early and lining up deep.
Taylor is also not the fastest getting into his sets and struggles against speed.
I would be very confident placing a bet that the coaching staff knew this and coached him to push the envelope as much as possible. No, I don't think they're outright saying, "Commit a penalty," but I would be very confident in saying they told him to line up as early as possible and coached him up on how to jump early without planting that first step so it isn't a false start.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
OK so a) I was referencing the Ravens specifically. I can't speak to what other coaching staffs do in regards to how they push the boundaries and b) the penalties we are getting, and I'm referencing, aren't the kind where we're getting dinged four or five times a game for being a half step off the line.
Several of our penalties are procedural one's. Illegal men down field, improper alignment on line of scrimmage, etc. Those are 100% practiced by all NFL teams, and are completely personnel driven.
We obviously know there are "technique" penalties. Olineman loses his rep and grabs to not let the lineman through. Corner loses his rep and grabs or holds to not give up a big play to a receiver. Those obviously aren't coached either, but in some cases, they're the lesser of two evils. It's the one's where the players don't execute their assignments correctly that are killers.
Okay, but the Chiefs and Eagles (Lane Johnson is a master of jumping "early") aren't the only teams doing these type of things. Belichick used to scour the rulebook for any margin he could.
Point being- I would be very confident that the coaches are going to coach in such a way to push the envelope and get any advantage they can. I can guarantee the coaching staff is reviewing what the league is consistently calling and what they aren't and coaching for every minute advantage that they can.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
From the Steelers game specifically:
1. Had a illegal shift penalty on Bateman on 3rd and 6. Declined
2. Had a false start penalty on Agholor on 2nd and 6. Forces a 2nd and 11 that leads to a punt.
3. Had a illegal man down field penalty on Mekari on 3rd and 4. Led to a 3rd and 9 we eventually converted and scored TD.
4. Had a holding penalty on Harrison on a kickoff that cost the Ravens 10 yards.
Those are in addition to the "technique" penalties, where we had the holding calls against Mekari and Stanley. And this doesn't take into account the two offsetting unsportsmanlike conduct penalties. Those are the one's where you get "lucky" that you're not the only one getting that call.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Right, but that's rarely going to work on False start or formational penalties (we had three of those yesterday). I would bet their focus is less on how the Olineman can get a half a second snap, and more on how strict or lenient officials are with holding calls, illegal contact calls, pass interference, etc.
Well, that's exactly what I'm referring to- Lane Johnson and Juwaan Taylor (him less so) have essentially mastered how to move early before the snap, but not draw a false start.
The Ravens play the Eagles in a few weeks, but watch Lane Johnson when the two teams play. He jumps early, but that foot won't hit the ground before the snap. He's essentially exploiting a loophole to jump early. It's a big reason he's so prolific as a pass blocker.
And even going back to things like the illegal formations in week 1 where Taylor didn't get called for lining up as a running back, but Stanley did-
The referees were looking at the belt lines. It didn't matter that Stanley didn't line up as far back as Taylor because Taylor leaned forward enough. That's a marginal advantage that the Chiefs damn sure coached up.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
And maybe so, but if those start to be called, then they start being coached not to do them. Technically if they're not being called, then you can argue they're not actually penalties, which means teams still aren't coaching penalties.
Here's some good context from Spencer:
x.com
x.com
Defensively, we're kind of OK. Probably a bit too many DPIs and Holding calls, but not earth shattering. I know a lot of the roughing calls have been suspect, so I'm not putting too much into that.
Second worst team in the league in Offensive holding penalties. Averaging 2-3 per game.
14 penalties this year between Illegal formations, and Ineligible down field, both of which should practically never happen. Getting at least 1-2 of those per game.
13 false starts, which isn't great, but is actually about league average.
The procedural penalties are horrendous compared to the rest of the league, and there's clearly either massive technique or execution challenges with the Oline.
x.com
x.com
As we saw with week 1 with Stanley and Taylor-And maybe so, but if those start to be called, then they start being coached not to do them. Technically if they're not being called, then you can argue they're not actually penalties, which means teams still aren't coaching penalties.
Here's some good context from Spencer:
x.com
Defensively, we're kind of OK. Probably a bit too many DPIs and Holding calls, but not earth shattering. I know a lot of the roughing calls have been suspect, so I'm not putting too much into that.
Second worst team in the league in Offensive holding penalties. Averaging 2-3 per game.
14 penalties this year between Illegal formations, and Ineligible down field, both of which should practically never happen. Getting at least 1-2 of those per game.
13 false starts, which isn't great, but is actually about league average.
The procedural penalties are horrendous compared to the rest of the league, and there's clearly either massive technique or execution challenges with the Oline.
And one more... three Olineman in the top 10 in offensive holding. Mekari leads the league, Faalele and Stanley are top 10 in most holds. Obviously interior Oline is a big problem.x.com
It IS a penalty if you don't do it quite right. The Chiefs are gaming the system better than the Ravens did.
And that's the overall point I'm trying to make-
Players are going to be coached to find every micro advantage they can. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't, but I do think, for many of these, that coaching is a factor.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
But it sounds like you're saying coaching is a factor in NOT committing the penalty, vs actually committing it, i.e. they're coaching them to NOT commit penalties. Which was my whole premise. They're coaching them to get a half second earlier without actually committing the penalty.
My view is that, in certain situations, you'll never know if its coaching vs execution. Ravens Oline coach can be teaching Stanley to use identical techniques that Taylor is. Maybe one is executing on it and one isn't. If that's the case, then its not a coaching failure. It's only a coaching failure if they're actually teaching them incorrectly.