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The Defence, the Turnovers, and the Tucker

I still don’t know why we can’t own teams on these short yardage situations. That 2pt conversion should’ve been successful.

5 OL
1 FB: Ricard
1 RB: Henry
1 QB: Jackson
1 WR: Flowers
2 TE: Andrews, Likely

This should be an unstoppable formation to get at least 3 yards for the conversion. You could even put Hill in there for a TE if you want to protect more but I don’t know why we aren’t more successful. I think we need to get more creative on these situations because what we’re doing isn’t working
 
RavensMania said:
I don't know why, but I feel we are going to beat the shit out of them next time we play them. Just have a feeling.

edit...just realized @Florida Raven Fan said basically the same thing.
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Yeah and I share the same sentiments. We had a freak game (although you could say this is always true) with an uncharacteristic fumble by Henry or that insane takeaway from Hill. That doesn’t include 2 back to back field goal misses from Tucker.
 
RavensMania said:
I don't know why, but I feel we are going to beat the shit out of them next time we play them. Just have a feeling.

edit...just realized @Florida Raven Fan said basically the same thing.
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Very first thing I thought of after the game was over. That was basically Pittsburgh's best punch, and it was our worst punch. And they beat us by two. At home.

I felt worse about our SB chances after both of the Bengals wins than I do today after a Steelers loss.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Have you watched Steelers games regularly this year?

Idk where this sentiment comes from that the Steelers are this overachieving shit team who’s just scrappy. They’ve been an excellent team all year. We are in no way in better shape to make a run than them. They are a complete team, physically and mentally tough, maybe toughest in the league, very well coached, and disciplined. We are one player steering a clown car on 3 tires through a minefield.

Steelers will beat us again. And if we manage to see them a third time, they’ll beat us then too.

We do not have the mental fortitude to play against their defense. Tj watt and cam heyward don’t just make our offense shit their pants, they pull our pants down and shit in them for us.
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I have. Steelers are the same team they've been for five years, only with a QB who turns it over a little less.
They're going to score 20 points a week. No more, no less. They don't have a lot of talent on offense, they don't have a good play caller, and their entire offense is focused on "force turnovers so we can get short fields".

In most cases, that works. Nobody thinks that when they go play a road game in KC, or Buffalo, or even in Baltimore, that they're going to be able to always get short fields and force 3-4 turnovers to stay in games.

I would gladly, gladly, gladly rather play Pittsburgh in the playoffs than Buffalo or KC. In anyone's building. I think the obvious "set up" for Pittsburgh is they're going to get thumped by a Chargers team that is better than them, in their own building, in mid-January.
 
ravenslord said:
If Tucker keeps missing kicks will he get replaced or is it too late this season ?
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Tuck is our guy until then end of the year. After that I'd be shocked if there wasn't a serious kicking competition in the offseason. To include the possibility of drafting a kicker. Its to important of a position now that its normal for guys to consistently hit kicks 50+, kickers like Tucker completely change the game
 
Offensive drives

1st Half

-Fumble
-Holding on 2nd down punt
-Missed fg
-3rd and 6 Incomplete pass and illegal shift punt
-1st down holding. Get it to 2nd and 6. false start. punt
-80 yard td drive
-1 play fumble pitt fg
-kneel to end half

2nd half

-fg
-3rd and 6 zay false start. Sacked on 3rd. Punt
-lamar int same mekari illegal man downfield drive
-td drive after another Mekari illegal man downfield

Fucking disgusting

Edit forgot a drive

And the int should have been a 1st down after a 1st and 15 putting us around the pitt 35. Why did I even start looking at this shit again.
 
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rmcjacket23 said:
I have. Steelers are the same team they've been for five years, only with a QB who turns it over a little less.
They're going to score 20 points a week. No more, no less. They don't have a lot of talent on offense, they don't have a good play caller, and their entire offense is focused on "force turnovers so we can get short fields".

In most cases, that works. Nobody thinks that when they go play a road game in KC, or Buffalo, or even in Baltimore, that they're going to be able to always get short fields and force 3-4 turnovers to stay in games.

I would gladly, gladly, gladly rather play Pittsburgh in the playoffs than Buffalo or KC. In anyone's building. I think the obvious "set up" for Pittsburgh is they're going to get thumped by a Chargers team that is better than them, in their own building, in mid-January.
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Don't you ever leave like that again

And with how I think final playoff seeding sets up whole afc wild card could possibly be upsets
 
Davesta said:
This team isn’t a championship team. Too many mental lapses. Too undisciplined. Harbaugh won’t get us there.
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In regards to coaching...
I think there are plenty of games where criticizing John, or really the coaching staff in general, are warranted. Several of them this year.
Today wasn't that game in my opinion. I saw very few coaching failures. I think whatever the fuck that 2PC play call was is a disaster, but that's the only thing that stood out.

Lets look at the three main problems... turnovers, missed kicks, and penalties:
a) I think its hard to sell the idea that turnovers are a coaching failure. That's player execution 100%. Henry can't fumble. Likely can't fumble. I'm not even that mad about the INT, because I think the defender made a great play, but it also wasn't an optimal throw by Lamar (theme of the day).
The only thing a coach can do to fix turnovers is practice it a shit ton in practice (which the Ravens do) and start yanking guys out of games for fumbling. I have a suspicion that nobody here would support benching Henry in the first quarter for fumbling.
b) kickers are kickers. John isn't going to solve Tucker's problems. Either he solves them, or he's not here much longer. If he's not accurate from inside 50, they'll bring in competition as soon as in a few weeks. There's a dozen FA kickers sitting at home who can come off the couch and make 75% of their kicks, which is better than what Justin is doing right now.
c) penalties. Honestly, I struggle with penalties being labeled a "coaching" issue. Coaches don't coach players to commit penalties. And a lot of our penalties in the secondary are talent/technique penalties, and a lot of our penalties on the Oline are because we're getting beat.
There's some sloppy one's also, like formational penalties and players being down field (which is generally Lamar's fault by the way) that can be cleaned up with better coaching, but they weren't the bigger problem yesterday.
 
redrum52 said:
Don't you ever leave like that again

And with how I think final playoff seeding sets up whole afc wild card could possibly be upsets
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I'll be in and out. The boards have kind of bored me the last year or so. Too many days like today. After a while it just becomes an echo chamber and the value just isn't there.
Will see what happens. Maybe I post a lot more, maybe I go away again for a long time.

I thought today is one of those patented "the sky is falling days" where it helps for people to understand the whole "the NFL is a week to week league" kind of thing.
 
I guess my question for the group regarding penalties... what should John do about it? What is he doing that's causing the penalties, what should he be doing to prevent them, and what happens if it really is the players fault? What's the next step?

Its a genuine question. I think the narrative is that penalties are a coaching stat, but I never hear anybody explain what can be done differently. I've been to Ravens practices before, and I've never seen a coaching staff teach players how to commit penalties.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
In regards to coaching...
I think there are plenty of games where criticizing John, or really the coaching staff in general, are warranted. Several of them this year.
Today wasn't that game in my opinion. I saw very few coaching failures. I think whatever the fuck that 2PC play call was is a disaster, but that's the only thing that stood out.

Lets look at the three main problems... turnovers, missed kicks, and penalties:
a) I think its hard to sell the idea that turnovers are a coaching failure. That's player execution 100%. Henry can't fumble. Likely can't fumble. I'm not even that mad about the INT, because I think the defender made a great play, but it also wasn't an optimal throw by Lamar (theme of the day).
The only thing a coach can do to fix turnovers is practice it a shit ton in practice (which the Ravens do) and start yanking guys out of games for fumbling. I have a suspicion that nobody here would support benching Henry in the first quarter for fumbling.
b) kickers are kickers. John isn't going to solve Tucker's problems. Either he solves them, or he's not here much longer. If he's not accurate from inside 50, they'll bring in competition as soon as in a few weeks. There's a dozen FA kickers sitting at home who can come off the couch and make 75% of their kicks, which is better than what Justin is doing right now.
c) penalties. Honestly, I struggle with penalties being labeled a "coaching" issue. Coaches don't coach players to commit penalties. And a lot of our penalties in the secondary are talent/technique penalties, and a lot of our penalties on the Oline are because we're getting beat.
There's some sloppy one's also, like formational penalties and players being down field (which is generally Lamar's fault by the way) that can be cleaned up with better coaching, but they weren't the bigger problem yesterday.
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You've seen im not a Harbaugh guy. I HAD THIS SAME DEBATE WITH FANS OF OTHER TEAMS. I'll be quick to blame him but i didnt have this one on him. Ball security and missed kicks arent his problem. Those go his way we most likely win. Last year we don't drop the ball or throw that terrible int we most likely win. Someone used the same penalty reasoning and I guess you could kind of pin that on him but wouldn't that be more positional and coordinator oriented.


rmcjacket23 said:
I'll be in and out. The boards have kind of bored me the last year or so. Too many days like today. After a while it just becomes an echo chamber and the value just isn't there.
Will see what happens. Maybe I post a lot more, maybe I go away again for a long time.

I thought today is one of those patented "the sky is falling days" where it helps for people to understand the whole "the NFL is a week to week league" kind of thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah. This wasn't a season over type loss. Just infuriating because of the mistakes and "media" or box score watchers just sticking to same tired talking points.
 
Grim said:
I still don’t know why we can’t own teams on these short yardage situations. That 2pt conversion should’ve been successful.

5 OL
1 FB: Ricard
1 RB: Henry
1 QB: Jackson
1 WR: Flowers
2 TE: Andrews, Likely

This should be an unstoppable formation to get at least 3 yards for the conversion. You could even put Hill in there for a TE if you want to protect more but I don’t know why we aren’t more successful. I think we need to get more creative on these situations because what we’re doing isn’t working
Click to expand...
Well for starters we need to use that formation and personal lmao. I cannot believe Henry wasn’t on the field, tried to get cute I guess after Tomlin called the TO. Tomlin outsmarted them
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I'll be in and out. The boards have kind of bored me the last year or so. Too many days like today. After a while it just becomes an echo chamber and the value just isn't there.
Will see what happens. Maybe I post a lot more, maybe I go away again for a long time.

I thought today is one of those patented "the sky is falling days" where it helps for people to understand the whole "the NFL is a week to week league" kind of thing.
Click to expand...
HES BACK! And he’s the same, we have not been intellectually stimulating enough! He wasn’t dead, we just weren’t intellectual enough!

Glad to have you back, Steelers bring out the real fanbase
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I guess my question for the group regarding penalties... what should John do about it? What is he doing that's causing the penalties, what should he be doing to prevent them, and what happens if it really is the players fault? What's the next step?

Its a genuine question. I think the narrative is that penalties are a coaching stat, but I never hear anybody explain what can be done differently. I've been to Ravens practices before, and I've never seen a coaching staff teach players how to commit penalties.
Click to expand...

Welcome back!!!
 
rmcjacket23 said:
I guess my question for the group regarding penalties... what should John do about it? What is he doing that's causing the penalties, what should he be doing to prevent them, and what happens if it really is the players fault? What's the next step?

Its a genuine question. I think the narrative is that penalties are a coaching stat, but I never hear anybody explain what can be done differently. I've been to Ravens practices before, and I've never seen a coaching staff teach players how to commit penalties.
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RPO illegal man downfield is something they can focus on at least. Of course, I think refs let the Chiefs get away with this a lot more than us. But honestly when Lamar completed that pass I felt like it was probably coming back because it was a RPO and he took a while before throwing it. They can at least prevent this by being smarter with it.
 
OURavensFan said:
RPO illegal man downfield is something they can focus on at least. Of course, I think refs let the Chiefs get away with this a lot more than us. But honestly when Lamar completed that pass I felt like it was probably coming back because it was a RPO and he took a while before throwing it. They can at least prevent this by being smarter with it.
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And some of that is on Lamar. There was at least one where it looked like either an RPO or designed screen, and he pump faked, and then completed it. Great reaction initially, but those plays don't really allow for pump fakes. The longer you wait to throw it, the further downfield the blockers get.

Its been an issue for teams that run RPOs more frequently. Eagles have it too. Just have to be decisive with it, and it basically has to be a "first read or throw it away" type pass if that's what the option becomes. You can't really run an RPO and go through progressions or even wait for the throw.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
And some of that is on Lamar. There was at least one where it looked like either an RPO or designed screen, and he pump faked, and then completed it. Great reaction initially, but those plays don't really allow for pump fakes. The longer you wait to throw it, the further downfield the blockers get.

Its been an issue for teams that run RPOs more frequently. Eagles have it too. Just have to be decisive with it, and it basically has to be a "first read or throw it away" type pass if that's what the option becomes. You can't really run an RPO and go through progressions or even wait for the throw.
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I agree, and if we keep doing it and failing then it also becomes a Monken issue for calling a risky play that the offense doesn’t always execute without a flag.
 
redrum52 said:
You've seen im not a Harbaugh guy. I HAD THIS SAME DEBATE WITH FANS OF OTHER TEAMS. I'll be quick to blame him but i didnt have this one on him. Ball security and missed kicks arent his problem. Those go his way we most likely win. Last year we don't drop the ball or throw that terrible int we most likely win. Someone used the same penalty reasoning and I guess you could kind of pin that on him but wouldn't that be more positional and coordinator oriented.




Yeah. This wasn't a season over type loss. Just infuriating because of the mistakes and "media" or box score watchers just sticking to same tired talking points.
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I'd also say... Zach Orr deserves a glorious handjob today from the fanbase. He's been criticized a lot, and rightfully so. Yesterday, he, and most of the defense, was outstanding.
Roquan looked like a new guy.
He did what many of us have been asking to do for about a month... benched Williams and Jackson, and played Hamilton and Washington in the traditional safety roles. One game sample, but it was easily our best alignment and absolutely helped to take away big plays for a team that loves to throw down field.
Oweh was a savage game wrecker, and Van Noy was in the back field all day. Got a lot of pressure with 4 and 5 man fronts, which is great.
Even Stephens (still that one blunder) looked better.
Appeared to me like we played a lot more man coverages, which a lot of us asked for as well.

Again, one game sample, but it was an outstanding effort.

That's a coaching win.
 
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