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The Running Game, the Turnovers, and the Same Ol’ Ravens

I'm not surprised this is your feeling. I don't care greatly, but I do find it kind of odd that a guy with a C on his chest has been "hiding" for lack of a better term. It's that simple.
Yeah I mean obviously I don't really give a shit about some C on their chest. Not sure the Ravens did either, since they've not really done that for the last 30 years or so.

I want to hear from John, and I want to hear from Lamar. The guy who's the actual leader of the team (the coach) and the QB who gets paid a shit ton more than everybody else. I don't need to hear from Roquan or Marlon spinning his nonsense or any of that. For me, its purely about fan vanity, and nothing more.
 
Yeah I mean obviously I don't really give a shit about some C on their chest. Not sure the Ravens did either, since they've not really done that for the last 30 years or so.

I want to hear from John, and I want to hear from Lamar. The guy who's the actual leader of the team (the coach) and the QB who gets paid a shit ton more than everybody else. I don't need to hear from Roquan or Marlon spinning his nonsense or any of that. For me, its purely about fan vanity, and nothing more.
I think you generally bring nice perspectives that challenge typical thinking. This is not one of them and I think you've missed your mark (no pun originally intended, but will now leave it)

The truth is yes, these players do owe it to us fans. Why? Because our viewership is why they are paid to entertain. They are entertainers, and part of their contracts require media availability. Clearly people want to hear from Mark Andrews, both fans and media. Without us viewing them, they are not paid, and then they become irrelevant.

FWIW, I actually don't care to hear from Mark Andrews. I'm actually with you on this. What he says makes no difference to me; however, you can't dismiss it is important to a lot of people and likely a majority of people.
 
Yeah I mean obviously I don't really give a shit about some C on their chest. Not sure the Ravens did either, since they've not really done that for the last 30 years or so.

I want to hear from John, and I want to hear from Lamar. The guy who's the actual leader of the team (the coach) and the QB who gets paid a shit ton more than everybody else. I don't need to hear from Roquan or Marlon spinning his nonsense or any of that. For me, its purely about fan vanity, and nothing more.
I don't think it's one of those things where I need to hear from Mark because he got the rare C. I just find it ironic that one of the few guys that got it has been silent while every other player that has fucked up at the same level has been willing to address it in recent years. I think you're taking this further than the original intent, but that's not surprising.
 
No

Not sure how you can say that with certainty. I mean one could argue that the Lamar fumble cost us more points (7 points on the bills td vs. 2pc). It also probably cost us from scoring something on that drive. May not have even needed the 2pc at the end. The 2pc would have tied the game and send it to ot, Still no guarantee of a win.

I agree that Andrews should have made that catch, but I also believe that mistakes made early in a game are no less important then mistakes at the end. If people are going to trash Andrews then it is perfectly fair to trash Lamar. And I think both are getting it this week.
Also left 2 points on the field with poor execution on the first 2 PC try. 9 points total, probably a lead, and we're not chasing the scoreboard in the second half.
 
Not sure how you can say that with certainty. I mean one could argue that the Lamar fumble cost us more points (7 points on the bills td vs. 2pc). It also probably cost us from scoring something on that drive. May not have even needed the 2pc at the end. The 2pc would have tied the game and send it to ot, Still no guarantee of a win.

I agree that Andrews should have made that catch, but I also believe that mistakes made early in a game are no less important then mistakes at the end. If people are going to trash Andrews then it is perfectly fair to trash Lamar. And I think both are getting it this week.
I think we’re scoring on that Andrews fumble drive.


Didn't like this at all. Win or lose with all the heat Lamar takes, I never remember him skipping out media. As you said even rookie showed up after his mistakes. Tucker easily could have dodged them with how his season was going.



He seems good for at least 1 big drop each playoff series. That drop people want to gloss over would have had us around the Bills 20. Drop, bad snap and fumble. Now Bills have the ball in the redzone to take the lead.

Then the fumble to me was the worst play due to timing and how were driving. ANY points there and this game is different.

And maybe I'm just a fan but the amount of hate for the fumble seems crazy to me when he was even able to recover. It seems to save face his best outcome would have been to not even catch the bad snap to avoid criticism. Almost immediately after he recovers someone is in his face.
The snap was terrible I agree it’s frustrating that Lamar has to take the choker heat from this one. While I somewhat understand RMC saying the plays are independent of each other, momentum is real that is undeniable, if Andrews doesn’t drop that I bet we don’t get the bad snap. But alas, we’ll never know. Another terrible loss and Lamar sucks again!
 
Also left 2 points on the field with poor execution on the first 2 PC try. 9 points total, probably a lead, and we're not chasing the scoreboard in the second half.

Find it interesting how your views have changed over the years on the distribution of blame but carry on lol
 
Also left 2 points on the field with poor execution on the first 2 PC try. 9 points total, probably a lead, and we're not chasing the scoreboard in the second half.
I hate watching games where we are chasing points especially knowing it’s coming down to a 2 point conversion. But god damn it Lamar was clutch as fuck on that final drive with god damn practice squad players.

The sequence being overlooked right now is when we had 1st and goal at the 2, on the sack we sent Ronnie Stanley out on a route lmao. If we want to blame Monken at any point it’s that sequence
 
I think you generally bring nice perspectives that challenge typical thinking. This is not one of them and I think you've missed your mark (no pun originally intended, but will now leave it)

The truth is yes, these players do owe it to us fans. Why? Because our viewership is why they are paid to entertain. They are entertainers, and part of their contracts require media availability. Clearly people want to hear from Mark Andrews, both fans and media. Without us viewing them, they are not paid, and then they become irrelevant.

FWIW, I actually don't care to hear from Mark Andrews. I'm actually with you on this. What he says makes no difference to me; however, you can't dismiss it is important to a lot of people and likely a majority of people.
OK, but you pay to watch them play football, not pay to watch them do press conferences.
If NFL players and coaches never spoke to the media again, it would have an immaterial impact on viewership of the sport or on the Revenue that the sport makes.

What you're implying is that if players stop talking to the media (and indirectly, the fans), you'll stop watching football? If so, then I think its more of a reflection of you than it is the players, and I think that's an extremely "minority" position.

Fans are owed a quality viewing experience on the football field. Nothing more. I'm a season ticket holder, and I 100% question the integrity and character of fellow season ticket holders who think dropping a couple thousand dollars a year somehow buys them access to whatever they want from players, coaches, etc. Those people are clinically narcissistic and psychotic.

There is not a single fan on this planet who truthfully cares what Mark Andrews has to say. Not one. His words don't matter. All you want is somebody to blame for what you saw, and for that person to be "sad" so that you can feel better about it. That's it. If you're being truthful with yourself, its not about Mark, it's about you.

Week in and week out, John stands up there on that podium and says a whole bunch of nothing over and over and over again. And fans get pissed when he speaks and they get pissed when he doesn't speak. Its all bullshit.
 
OK, but you pay to watch them play football, not pay to watch them do press conferences.
If NFL players and coaches never spoke to the media again, it would have an immaterial impact on viewership of the sport or on the Revenue that the sport makes.

What you're implying is that if players stop talking to the media (and indirectly, the fans), you'll stop watching football? If so, then I think its more of a reflection of you than it is the players, and I think that's an extremely "minority" position.

Fans are owed a quality viewing experience on the football field. Nothing more. I'm a season ticket holder, and I 100% question the integrity and character of fellow season ticket holders who think dropping a couple thousand dollars a year somehow buys them access to whatever they want from players, coaches, etc. Those people are clinically narcissistic and psychotic.

There is not a single fan on this planet who truthfully cares what Mark Andrews has to say. Not one. His words don't matter. All you want is somebody to blame for what you saw, and for that person to be "sad" so that you can feel better about it. That's it. If you're being truthful with yourself, its not about Mark, it's about you.

Week in and week out, John stands up there on that podium and says a whole bunch of nothing over and over and over again. And fans get pissed when he speaks and they get pissed when he doesn't speak. Its all bullshit.
Do me a favor and read my comments again. Never said any of that. Won't answer it since those aren't my views.

Speaking to the "media" is a consequence of playing the game.
 
I hate watching games where we are chasing points especially knowing it’s coming down to a 2 point conversion. But god damn it Lamar was clutch as fuck on that final drive with god damn practice squad players.

The sequence being overlooked right now is when we had 1st and goal at the 2, on the sack we sent Ronnie Stanley out on a route lmao. If we want to blame Monken at any point it’s that sequence

No problem with going for 2. Didn't like the playcalling after the Bateman catch. Or the fact we didn't try running Lamar. Maybe they didn't want to risk injury on the field.
 
Do me a favor and read my comments again. Never said any of that. Won't answer it since those aren't my views.

Speaking to the "media" is a consequence of playing the game.
Sure... for now. If the NFL decided tomorrow to stop requiring access to the media, what's the fan response? Do you think people will actually stop watching football because they don't get their weekly dose of John lying to them?

Speaking to the media is 100% for the fans and 0% for the players and coaches. They gain nothing from it, other than to possibly lie to everybody and troll them. That's not something that fans have "earned" or are somehow entitled to, regardless of the time or monetary commitment they make. It's basically the NFL giving fans a little courtesy gesture.

Note of course that, in this case, there is no legal, regulatory, moral, or ethical obligation for Andrews to speak to the media. By any stretch of the imagination. Fans don't get to pick and choose who they want to hear from.
 
Sure... for now. If the NFL decided tomorrow to stop requiring access to the media, what's the fan response? Do you think people will actually stop watching football because they don't get their weekly dose of John lying to them?

Speaking to the media is 100% for the fans and 0% for the players and coaches. They gain nothing from it, other than to possibly lie to everybody and troll them. That's not something that fans have "earned" or are somehow entitled to, regardless of the time or monetary commitment they make. It's basically the NFL giving fans a little courtesy gesture.

Note of course that, in this case, there is no legal, regulatory, moral, or ethical obligation for Andrews to speak to the media. By any stretch of the imagination. Fans don't get to pick and choose who they want to hear from.
Yeah, that I will agree with. I don't care much for the press conferences until end of season press conferences. It's good to hear them talk about injuries but nobody says anything meaningful. TBH I would rather Harbaugh get on Twitter/X/TikTok/whatever and give a 60 sec update and that be it. FOr the reason you say, I just don't care what they have to say but I do think there are people who generally want to hear from the team and do care so I won't be totally dismissive of it. Maybe if there is someone here who actually likes press conferences has insight, because I have a hard time relating when I don't care what they say and don't watch them until we get to Draft season.
 
Find it interesting how your views have changed over the years on the distribution of blame but carry on lol
I think our strengths as a team and how we distribute our resources($ and draft) have changed greatly. My views may shift with circumstance, but not for any other reason.
Seems your views on the distribution of blame are much different now as well, but carry on. lol
 
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I’m going to paste a post from Ex on RSR because I agree with the overall sentiment. Lamar had to play perfect ball this year for us to win, I forget the exact stat but pretty sure we lost every game he has under a 114 qb rating. I think he had around 110 this past game. I’m not sure what needs to change, try to get a better O line I guess . Here’s his post:

I’ve agreed with you a lot in this thread. I’ll start with this. Look at our first drive. They stopped Henry, Henry then dropped a wide open pass, and Lamar had to do his Lamar magic routine for us to score. Our last drive, it starts with a penalty, Lamar’s second WR goes out and Lamar has to do Lamar magic again. It’s easy to say that you just can’t have two turnovers, but when you combine the idea of ‘not’ having them, with HOW we scored the vast majority of our points, you would end up with Lamar needing to play perfect. Allen didn’t have to do much because Buffalo created an offense that doesn’t require him to be Superman to work. His presences isn’t even this big difference maker in their running game. Their offensive line is good enough for them to run effectively without him even being involved.

This is why I continue to say, you can expect your QB to play within the offense when everything comes down to him, within it. Last week, he ran six times early on to open up the defense for Henry. He HAD to do that for our running game to work. Otherwise, they would’ve stopped Henry, because we decided that we wanted to take chances along the OL at BOTH Guard spots. Last night, Lamar didn’t run early but maybe a scramble or two and guess what? They stopped Henry.

He can’t turn the ball over, every pass has to be perfect, and if he doesn’t buy time and dodge pass rushers like Houdini, many, if not most of our points aren’t scored.

The defense doesn’t force turnovers. We’ve seen other great QBs win playoff games after turning the ball over twice. It sucks, it can’t happen, but we’ve seen those QBs not have to play perfect to win. That’s just not the case here and it continues to be an issue.
 
If Lamar is over the playoff hiccups, he doesn’t commit the turnovers. Because those are mistakes he doesn’t make, until he gets in the playoffs, and yeah he did enough at the end to give us a chance and andrews is far more to blame, but without Lamar’s two turnovers the bills might never have a lead
Patrick Mahomes has about 9 turnovers and commits 1.3 turnovers a game I believe. The Interception IMO did not have much of an impact. The Fumble I will admit was bad but we’ve seen him make those plays time and time again. He battled back down double digits on the road, had a clutch drive to nearly tie the game against a great team, that I don’t think he would’ve done years ago.
 
Patrick Mahomes has about 9 turnovers and commits 1.3 turnovers a game I believe. The Interception IMO did not have much of an impact. The Fumble I will admit was bad but we’ve seen him make those plays time and time again. He battled back down double digits on the road, had a clutch drive to nearly tie the game against a great team, that I don’t think he would’ve done years ago.

to me the int was worse. Unforced early down and awful throw read... whatever the hell it was.
 
to me the int was worse. Unforced early down and awful throw read... whatever the hell it was.
It sucked for sure but Brady and Mahomes have done it a lot. I still put this loss mostly on Andrews, he was horrible. His fumble ultimately was the game. He even had a chance to redeem himself and made it worse
 
It sucked for sure but Brady and Mahomes have done it a lot. I still put this loss mostly on Andrews, he was horrible. His fumble ultimately was the game. He even had a chance to redeem himself and made it worse
I’m not into blaming one guy so skipping that portion…

But I was telling my wife that he looked ready to go redeem himself after the fumble. I was very wrong.
 
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