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The Defense, the Offense, and the Crabtree....

TheCity5

TheCity5

MVP
DeVito52 said:
Well there’s no “really do think”.

Please do not say things that you do not know are facts. We don’t want false claims being spread here.
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Lol, you’re acting like the drops were completely meaningless. The two dropped passes he had early either would’ve converted a 1st down or would’ve gotten us close to a conversion. I’m only saying that I “think” that they were because I don’t have access to the film.

It doesn’t matter if it wasn’t a 1st down, the conversion would’ve produced a positive play, that’s the point.
 
Tank

Tank

Hall of Famer
TheCity5 said:
That’s not a good idea. You have to ride it out with him and hope he fixes those drops. You can’t ever bench a player, even when he has these issues.
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Eh, I generally agree but they’ve been riding it out for five games and it’s only gotten worse. As we spoke about earlier Joe will stop looking for him and it will just be a wasted spot. Again, I doubt he will be benched at this point but something has to spur a change.
 
ALI624

ALI624

Pro Bowler
Ereck Flowers is going to be released if he is not traded. You know we will for some reason want him, one of the only tackles worse than Hurst.
 
Tank

Tank

Hall of Famer
TheCity5 said:
Lol, you’re acting like the drops were completely meaningless. The two dropped passes he had early either would’ve converted a 1st down or would’ve gotten us close to a conversion. I’m only saying that I “think” that they were because I don’t have access to the film.

It doesn’t matter if it wasn’t a 1st down, the conversion would’ve produced a positive play, that’s the point.
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Offense was moving the ball both times, both drops robbed momentum and ruined any chance at getting a rhythm going.
 
2

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
TheCity5 said:
He led the team in yards and catches but he had 12 targets and his drops were pivatol. An end zone drop, and I think 2 others were first down conversion drops. I don’t think the 6 receptions for 66 yards make up for what was a bad performance by him. Even average WRs or guys who are above average look better with a high dose of targets, EXP: Kamar Aiken/Mike Wallace.

He’s led the team in targets with 34, yet he’s 3rd in the team in receiving yards, that’s kind of disappointing and not the production that the Ravens expected of him through 5 games.

I put the blame on Joe and Marty however for this as well. When you continue to feed Crab, it makes you ignore guys like Snead, Moore and Buck who are producing or can be productive. I think Joe needs to look towards their way more and not laser himself on Crabtree. We’ve seen this before with Joe where he looks towards his first read too often and too much in the passing game.

That INT was awful as well, the replay however showed that the pass was batted in the air and had that not happened it would’ve been an incompletion, I also thought Ward made a heads up play that a lot of people would not be able to make in that situation. The guy has serious ball skills. It was a bad play by Joe because in that situation you just have to take care of the Football, he has the arm strength to sail that pass over everyone’s head. To fall back and make that throw with a defender in front of you is just a head scratcher honestly. Just another one of those plays that Joe makes that frustrates you.
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For what it's worth, Brown had 14 targets and only 4 catches. I can't really get upset at Brown for having 6 on 12 if it's okay for Brown to have 4 on 14.

I know at least one of the drops was a good 2 yards short of a first down on third down, hence the inconsequential remark. I can't remember the other, but I don't remember it costing the Ravens.
 
TheCity5

TheCity5

MVP
Tank said:
Eh, I generally agree but they’ve been riding it out for five games and it’s only gotten worse. As we spoke about earlier Joe will stop looking for him and it will just be a wasted spot. Again, I doubt he will be benched at this point but something has to spur a change.
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I don’t think they should bench him. I personally think Joe just has to look towards others. He missed Snead a few times yesterday and I think he locks down on a receiver too often sometimes.
 
TheCity5

TheCity5

MVP
29BmoreBird22 said:
For what it's worth, Brown had 14 targets and only 4 catches. I can't really get upset at Brown for having 6 on 12 if it's okay for Brown to have 4 on 14.

I know at least one of the drops was a good 2 yards short of a first down on third down, hence the inconsequential remark. I can't remember the other, but I don't remember it costing the Ravens.
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I think Brown’s issue is that the passes thrown to him are either inaccurate, or just overthrown balls. As a primary deep threat he’s not really bound to have a high conversion rate on passes. I don’t know why the team doesn’t expand his routes. He’s a really good route runner who can attack those intermediate routes and they just don’t really utilize him there enough. I don’t think Brown had much of an opportunity on a lot of passes thrown his way. You don’t really see highlight drops from John Brown that you see from Crabtree. I don’t think Browns catches:targets are something you can really get at him on.

I’m certain Crabtree dropped a conversion pass, he also dropped one that was close to the 1st down marker. I don’t have access to the film but I’m certain he dropped those two, add in the TD pass and targets:conversion rate and I honestly have to say that it doesn’t make up for the game he had.
 
DeVito52

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
TheCity5 said:
I think Brown’s issue is that the passes thrown to him are either inaccurate, or just overthrown balls. As a primary deep threat he’s not really bound to have a high conversion rate on passes. I don’t know why the team doesn’t expand his routes. He’s a really good route runner who can attack those intermediate routes and they just don’t really utilize him there enough. I don’t think Brown had much of an opportunity on a lot of passes thrown his way. You don’t really see highlight drops from John Brown that you see from Crabtree. I don’t think Browns catches:targets are something you can really get at him on.

I’m certain Crabtree dropped a conversion pass, he also dropped one that was close to the 1st down marker. I don’t have access to the film but I’m certain he dropped those two, add in the TD pass and targets:conversion rate and I honestly have to say that it doesn’t make up for the game he had.
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A majority of Browns routes yesterday were intermediate routes. He’s not at all a primary deep threat. They utilize Brown very well, he was just locked up by Ward yesterday. Which is disappointing.
 
DeVito52

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
I will say again Crabtree’s drops are nothing like Breshads or anything. I’d say almost all of them are contested and not easy catches. Catchable, but not totally uncontested like most of breshads. I don’t remember this backlash when Steve Smith sr was dropping passes. Crab had two official drops yesterday. If he hadn’t dropped the touchdown (still a tough catch) then his drops would be irrelevant.
 
DeVito52

DeVito52

Ravens Ring of Honor
Now that I’ve cooled off, we can point out the good from yesterday.

-Bowser played like 12 snaps, but he played well, had two pressures and the defense performed well as a whole while he was on the field. Hopefully we see more from him.

-Suggs and ZDS played very well, although ZDS still has a hard time finishing plays. Judon played well and had his first good game of the year.

-I will proudly admit I was wrong about wanting to cut Levine. He is playing flat out amazing. He played a ton of snaps and singlehandly caused a 4th down numerous times. He needs to continue getting a lot of snaps because we are way better when he’s on the field.

Henry looked good in his debut and will only get better.

For the not so good:

Hopefully Jimmy takes over most of Carr’s snaps soon because Carr is still a liability and he gave up the 39 yard game winning pass to a tight end.

Humphrey did not have a good day at all. On top of Njokus catches he got shredded by Higgins for the TD and he wasn’t even close to Higgins...he’s still getting better so we can live with it.

Buck outsnapped Collins by a good margin as Collins got beat up it looked like, and it showed in the run game. Collins NEEDS to get the majority of the runs. Buck can’t cut it. We desperately need Dixon right now. He’s really missing a great opportunity to make a name for himself right now, he’s the type of back we need with this weak Oline. Someone who creates something out of nothing.

People were crying to get Snead on the field more but he played almost as many snaps as Crab...disappointing that we didn’t see much of him or the tight ends.

Cleveland was the best defense we played this year so far but thats no excuse for putting up 9 points. We won’t be doing anything this year if they don’t improve.
 
TheCity5

TheCity5

MVP
29BmoreBird22 said:
Can you give a timestamp for the two drops? I found a place to rewatch the game before GamePass releases it, so I'd like to review.
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https://twitter.com/rnbwcv/status/1048989985125408769?s=21

I don’t have the time stamps, but these are passes throw well beyond the LOS, so you have to say that these plays would’ve either kept the drive going to assisted at that.

I will admit the problem here is that it doesn’t show the line to gain or the down. I will go through the game log and see how this played a factor on the drive.

FWIW, I don’t think Crabtree would be so down on himself if he didn’t believe his drops didn’t play a factor in the loss. I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for the loss, but I think it’s fair to say he played a factor in it.
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
29BmoreBird22 said:
For what it's worth, Brown had 14 targets and only 4 catches. I can't really get upset at Brown for having 6 on 12 if it's okay for Brown to have 4 on 14.

I know at least one of the drops was a good 2 yards short of a first down on third down, hence the inconsequential remark. I can't remember the other, but I don't remember it costing the Ravens.
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Exactly.
But @Tank will always blame every single non-completion on receiver. Anything to defend his belief in Joe's greatness.
 
TheCity5

TheCity5

MVP
For me personally, it’s built up frustration with Crabtree. I’m not picking on him for just this game, he’s had numerous killer drops and the end zone drop was something that I just feel like was bound to happen. It’s been a trend for the past five games.

Everyone on the offense has either met or exceeded expectations. When you think about the TEs, Snead, and Brown. They’ve all made plays and have proven their worth. Crabtree is kind of been a disappointment given his role and the amount of targets he gets.

For perspective, he has a 52.2%(career low so far) catch rate as a possession WR and he’s accounted for 8 of 16 of the Ravens drops which are both league leading btw. This goes alongside with the fact that he’s the highest targeted receiver on the team. To say that he’s been a disappointment through five games is not an overstatement. He’s on pace for over 20 drops this year. That’s awful.

FWIW, I have faith in Crab. I don’t think him and Joe are on the same page yet. Maybe it’s a timing issue between the two, the passes have been on the money, maybe they just need more time together. Sometimes these things take more then an off-season.
 
gtalk12

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
DeVito52 said:
And Flacco’s horrible int and several horrible passes robbed us of momentum and points but you won’t mention that. It’s all on Crabtree. That last one lost the game my ass. Just stop.
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What did Crabtree have to do with the lack of run game, goaline int, and blocked FG?
 
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