Not entertaining rumors, but discussing possibilities; Jadeveon Clowney

[JoeyFlex5]

Yes to Clowney at all costs. Look at the firepower now in our division. We can’t cover Odell, Green and JuJu forever if the pass rush isn’t there. You take full advantage of a QB on a rookie deal. Getting Clowney would absolutely put our defense over the top, especially if we wouldn’t have to package Jimmy (which I’m okay with dealing). I can’t even fathom Clowney in a Wink-ran defense. Good lord.

That’s what I’m saying, with our secondary we can cover just about any wr corps for 3-4 seconds, but you need your pass rush to get home by then or hope the qb can’t find the guys that slip open.

Landry and goddamn perriman torched us last year, because baker had time to find guys

 

[rossihunter2]

Clowney hasn't had the crazy numbers yet because the Texans scheme their entire defense around Watt. I think if we were to get Clowney then Wink would be able to "unleash" him, so to speak, and he would start to put up those double digit sack numbers.

The Texans started a pressure scheme where they were trying to create 1v1 matchups for Clowney/watt/mercilus by having more players at the line of scrimmage and creating some confusion but they would do it with 5 guys and it would work at times but also completely stopped working as soon as either watt or Clowney were not there (basically they engineered 1v1 matchups for guys who couldn’t win consistently vs a lineman)

What’s interesting is that concept has been turned up to 11 by wink here with the way we run our dime and 3rd and long defence by creating crazy mismatches even with a 4 man rush just by having the LoS crowded with options of rushers and cover guys - we took their 5 man look and turned it into a 7/8 man look

So I’m not sure our scheme would necessarily unlock Clowney the way you’re inferring and a lot of the success of our packages comes from having a guy like Judon who can drop from OLB into coverage and also rush the passer effectively from the same stance and position - Clowney wouldn’t be able to replace judon in our scheme in the same way - we’d still need that anchor point at SAM LB to operate as effectively - now if we had someone (let’s say hypothetically bowser takes a step forward) to take that SAM roll then Clowney becomes a valuable piece of that rush package either blitzing or rushing from rush lb or even from inside vs a guard

 

[balfan23]

Just have to wonder what the price tag is ... both in terms of picks and contract price. I guess if they settle for a 2nd rounder, we can give that up since the running joke is we have an awful track record on second rounders anyway. If they want a 1st, I don't think we are going to cough that up and I don't think that would be wise.

I'm assuming a 1st rounder is what they are asking for ... which is why he is still a Texan.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Just have to wonder what the price tag is ... both in terms of picks and contract price. I guess if they settle for a 2nd rounder, we can give that up since the running joke is we have an awful track record on second rounders anyway. If they want a 1st, I don't think we are going to cough that up and I don't think that would be wise.

I'm assuming a 1st rounder is what they are asking for ... which is why he is still a Texan.

Yeah a first is too rich for me in this draft class

 

[rossihunter2]

Just have to wonder what the price tag is ... both in terms of picks and contract price. I guess if they settle for a 2nd rounder, we can give that up since the running joke is we have an awful track record on second rounders anyway. If they want a 1st, I don't think we are going to cough that up and I don't think that would be wise.

I'm assuming a 1st rounder is what they are asking for ... which is why he is still a Texan.

i mean his current max trade value is the lowest it will ever be because of a few reasons:

1.) He's said he's unhappy with his contract and is holding out - no guarantee he won't do that at his next club too

2.) Because it's after july 15th, he cant actually get a new contract until next year from whatever organisation he's a part of be that the texans or any team that might trade for him - this itself has multiple ramifications...
- any team that trades for him is trading for a 1 year rental
- his contract demands will be bigger as the market gets bigger and the CBA gets closer
- even if a team commits to giving him that sort of a contract there is no barrier to him entering the open market of free agency except for a second year franchise tag (which is incredibly expensive again)

3.) He'd be entering any franchise too late to acclimate schematically in time for week 1 in an effective way (khalil mack the exception not the rule in this sort of instance)

all of this deflates his trade value to probably the lowest its ever been

my sense is that the most almost any team in the league will be ok giving up is a 3rd round pick (maybe a 2nd at a push) because worst case they can recoup a 3rd rounder comp pick if they cant negotiate a contract with him before getting to free agency

the texans should have tried to trade him before july 15th if they were going to because his value would have probably been at least 1 round higher than it is right now (and likely a lot higher)

 

[Grim]

Yeah a first is too rich for me in this draft class

I think a second is too rich. The highest I would give is a 3rd because we can’t even really extend the guy until the season ends. There’s little benefit to us in addition to the short amount of acclimation time remaining. Texans really screwed the pooch here imo.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i mean his current max trade value is the lowest it will ever be because of a few reasons:

1.) He's said he's unhappy with his contract and is holding out - no guarantee he won't do that at his next club too

2.) Because it's after july 15th, he cant actually get a new contract until next year from whatever organisation he's a part of be that the texans or any team that might trade for him - this itself has multiple ramifications...
- any team that trades for him is trading for a 1 year rental
- his contract demands will be bigger as the market gets bigger and the CBA gets closer
- even if a team commits to giving him that sort of a contract there is no barrier to him entering the open market of free agency except for a second year franchise tag (which is incredibly expensive again)

3.) He'd be entering any franchise too late to acclimate schematically in time for week 1 in an effective way (khalil mack the exception not the rule in this sort of instance)

all of this deflates his trade value to probably the lowest its ever been

my sense is that the most almost any team in the league will be ok giving up is a 3rd round pick (maybe a 2nd at a push) because worst case they can recoup a 3rd rounder comp pick if they cant negotiate a contract with him before getting to free agency

the texans should have tried to trade him before july 15th if they were going to because his value would have probably been at least 1 round higher than it is right now (and likely a lot higher)

He would’ve drawn a first and maybe a future first. At worst a first and third. Texans called his bluff and he wasn’t bluffing.

 

[rossihunter2]

He would’ve drawn a first and maybe a future first. At worst a first and third. Texans called his bluff and he wasn’t bluffing.

i think before july 15th they could have got a 1st i agree - now though, they might be lucky to get a 3rd honestly

its why i think ultimately he'll stay on their roster - and he'll probably play too because by all accounts it sounds like hes planning on playing football this year which means he'd have to sign the franchise tag even if he is traded

my guess is neither side likes it but he plays out this year and then hits free agency in 2020

 

[airconteka]

Yeah why trade him for a third, when you’d get a third comp if he plays on the tag and then leaves in free agency

 

[ZonaRaven]

Yeah why trade him for a third, when you’d get a third comp if he plays on the tag and then leaves in free agency

Wouldn't it be a 2020 3rd we'd theoretically trade and then realize a 2021 comp of he left? Might be a matter of timing assuming im not messing that up

 

[A1A]

Last 3 years

Judon has 19 sacks
Jadeveon has 24.5 sacks

59 QB hits for Jadeveon
49 QB hits Judon

Clowney has more mileage on him because he has been in the league alittle longer and has been plagued with injuries. Judon did not start a single game his first year.

Wanted to throw that out there for some context. Even with the injuries, those are the numbers Clowney puts up. Imagine if he was healthy? He is also alittle younger than Judon.

Clowney has more mileage on him because he has been in the league alittle longer and has been plagued with injuries. Judon did not start a single game his first year....yea so let's give him 40 more million. Lol

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Tavon young likely out for the year. So now to hell with any trade involving jimmy smith

 

[cobrajet]

That’s what I’m saying, with our secondary we can cover just about any wr corps for 3-4 seconds, but you need your pass rush to get home by then or hope the qb can’t find the guys that slip open.

Landry and goddamn perriman torched us last year, because baker had time to find guys

You are right there! I like Judon, but we need just a little more out of him pressuring QB’s and I when healthy, I think Clowney has him beat.

 

[BloodRaven]

Clowney isnt a top level rusher imo, hes like a level below Mack. Thats the type of defender you break the bank for

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Clowney isnt a top level rusher imo, hes like a level below Mack. Thats the type of defender you break the bank for

Clowney is very under appreciated as a rusher because of his sack totals, but he is rushed exotically because the likes of watt and mercilus aren’t nearly as dangerous on the inside as clowney is, that’s their way of keeping 3 good rushers on the field.

If clowney was able to rush off the edge consistently I truly believe he would be an easy double digit sack guy every year.

And a level below Mack is still a special player, you got Mack and miller as the slam dunk first ballot HOF edge rushers, then you have the likes of clowney, Ingram, Garrett, and bosa, and whoever I might be leaving out, I’d break the bank for any of those guys

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

Last 2 seasons

Mack: 23.0 sacks
Clowney: 18.5 sacks


No one is gonna argue that Clowney is on Mack's level, but he's not far off and it's reasonable to believe that he has untapped potential

 

[BloodRaven]

Clowney is very under appreciated as a rusher because of his sack totals, but he is rushed exotically because the likes of watt and mercilus aren’t nearly as dangerous on the inside as clowney is, that’s their way of keeping 3 good rushers on the field.

If clowney was able to rush off the edge consistently I truly believe he would be an easy double digit sack guy every year.

And a level below Mack is still a special player, you got Mack and miller as the slam dunk first ballot HOF edge rushers, then you have the likes of clowney, Ingram, Garrett, and bosa, and whoever I might be leaving out, I’d break the bank for any of those guys

Man we should have pushed hard to trade for Bosa during his holdout, Chargers front office was pissed at the time

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Since Houston is asking for tunsil, how about, and bear with me... Zeus jr and picks for clowney. He’s projecting way down right now and I’m quite worried about him and unless he is just a gamer and shows up regular season and kicks ass he could end up busting, but the Texans are desperate for OTs to the point that they spent a first on tytus Howard.

Buy low Sell high

 

[Willbacker]

Since Houston is asking for tunsil, how about, and bear with me... Zeus jr and picks for clowney. He’s projecting way down right now and I’m quite worried about him and unless he is just a gamer and shows up regular season and kicks ass he could end up busting, but the Texans are desperate for OTs to the point that they spent a first on tytus Howard.

Buy low Sell high

Well right now Bowser and Williams have been doing pretty good at edge but I like where you're going with this but there would have to be an extension in place. Who would replace Jr on the right? Elumenor? For gawd sakes don't say Hurst lol.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Well right now Bowser and Williams have been doing pretty good at edge but I like where you're going with this but there would have to be an extension in place. Who would replace Jr on the right? Elumenor? For gawd sakes don't say Hurst lol.

Uneven formation every snap, 4 OL and 3TE on the right in bunch formation lol