Signings, Cuts, Trades

[rossihunter2]

All I know is, with all other things equal, a taller guy with a bigger wingspan will be able to snag those throws Lamar sometimes throws much better than a smaller guy with less of a wingspan

it's also harder for those taller guys to reach the ones where lamar misses low...
maybe it's the guys we have on the roster but lamar's not shown in the 3 years he's been here, an affinity for throwing into contested windows where those big bodies can thrive with physicality

one of the criticisms of lamar has been that he needs to see it open - the solution to that (in my view) is to give him more guys who get open than guys who make contested grabs

 

[JoeyFlex5]

And that's fine. I'm more or less taking the same stance I've been taking, which is that a) the FO doesn't value the need for a WR nearly as high as the fanbase does and b) I have zero doubt that they have WRs on their board with 2nd, 3rd and later grades that they'll be more than happy to target if they can't get who they want in the first. And it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they don't view somebody like Bateman as a top 30 pick, and even pass on him if he's available.

Certainly understand that there's a wide range of view points on skill sets, who falls where, etc., which is par for the course in the NFL draft. I think its critical for fans to understand that the FO doesn't always share the viewpoints of what analysts we've been hearing for weeks share on certain players, positions, needs, etc.

You took the same stance that we wouldn’t trade Orlando, that we wouldn’t trade for an edge rusher in 2020, that we wouldn’t make any major trades midseason 2019, every time the discussion was brought up you had to intervene and tell everyone they were wasting their breath talking about trades, yet moderate sized trades happened time and time again, now it’s “the ravens won’t trade for Julio and also won’t draft a wr in the first, deal with it”

why do you enjoy this so much?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

it's also harder for those taller guys to reach the ones where lamar misses low...
maybe it's the guys we have on the roster but lamar's not shown in the 3 years he's been here, an affinity for throwing into contested windows where those big bodies can thrive with physicality

one of the criticisms of lamar has been that he needs to see it open - the solution to that (in my view) is to give him more guys who get open than guys who make contested grabs

I’m gonna have to give you a HARD disagree here, not just disagree but tell you you’re flat out wrong, respectfully.

who has been, without question, the top receiving weapon in Baltimore since 2018? And how did he and Lamar make this connection?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

To some extent. But if the tall WR is garbage, it doesn't really matter. For instance, if I'm in the red zone and I have Brown and Boykin lined up as my WRs, you can be damn sure Hollywood is my first read.

I think every team would love to have a dominant, tall WR but you also shouldn't limit yourself to that.

I mean, if I had similar grades on a 6'4 WR vs. a 5'8 WR for our current offense, I'll take the 6'4 guy. But if the 5'8 guy has a better grade, give me the 5'8 guy all day.

Well I don’t think a single person here is asking for a bum ass 6’5” WR

 

[rossihunter2]

I’m gonna have to give you a HARD disagree here, not just disagree but tell you you’re flat out wrong, respectfully.

who has been, without question, the top receiving weapon in Baltimore since 2018?

i should have specified outside the numbers... you make a good point though

you could argue i suppose that if he had someone he trusted outside, he'd throw there more
i guess my thinking regarding andrews is that lamar trusts him tight windows but also trusts him as a route-runner to separate

but this is why bateman's probably the ideal guy because he's an elite separator who lamar can trust to both run the right route and play big at the catch-point - plays like a guy who's bigger and smaller at the same time (in the right ways)

 

[rossihunter2]

Well I don’t think a single person here is asking for a bum ass 6’5” WR

i mean it certainly seems like a couple of posters are...

 

[Simba]

Well I don’t think a single person here is asking for a bum ass 6’5” WR

They aren't. But my point is that when you typecast that you need a big WR, you often overlook some of the actual good WRs that don't meet the arbitrary threshold. There's long been this random assumption that a WR needs to be 6'3+ in order to be a dominant #1.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i should have specified outside the numbers... you make a good point though

you could argue i suppose that if he had someone he trusted outside, he'd throw there more
i guess my thinking regarding andrews is that lamar trusts him tight windows but also trusts him as a route-runner to separate

but this is why bateman's probably the ideal guy because he's an elite separator who lamar can trust to both run the right route and play big at the catch-point - plays like a guy who's bigger and smaller at the same time (in the right ways)

Look no further than his college tape to get an idea of how Lamar handles a big bodied WR who he trusts to be in the right place and use that size appropriately, he made Jaylen smith look like a semi attractive UDFA just because smith and Lamar had established a rapport. The only big wr we have is Boykin and he is soft as a marshmallow at the catch point and he doesn’t ever commit to his plan and as a result he lulls out of breaks and isn’t where Lamar expects him to be.

yes this is why Bateman and Marshall are attractive, not because of their size, but because they can make a sudden break to separate late and then use their length to simply become indefensible at the catch point, they pair 2 traits together extremely well

i mean it certainly seems like a couple of posters are...

Who and which wr is that?

 

[rossihunter2]

Look no further than his college tape to get an idea of how Lamar handles a big bodied WR who he trusts to be in the right place and use that size appropriately, he made Jaylen smith look like a semi attractive UDFA just because smith and Lamar had established a rapport.

Who and which wr is that?

more the posters than the WR lol
and you're right about jaylen smith too

it's a shame he never got the chance to play with devante parker in college

 

[rmcjacket23]

You took the same stance that we wouldn’t trade Orlando, that we wouldn’t trade for an edge rusher in 2020, that we wouldn’t make any major trades midseason 2019, every time the discussion was brought up you had to intervene and tell everyone they were wasting their breath talking about trades, yet moderate sized trades happened time and time again, now it’s “the ravens won’t trade for Julio and also won’t draft a wr in the first, deal with it”

why do you enjoy this so much?

1. Because so many fans have come to expect that this is Madden and you can just "trade your way" into great players, when it doesn't happen that often. And then when it doesn't happen, they be like "o man see we should have done that deal", when there was never a deal to be had or the price was never reasonable. Trading for Yannick didn't exactly prove to be very fruitful, did it? Peters was a win, Yannick was probably a loss.
Do people think we're hitting home runs with every trade we make? Some of these haven't been that spectacular...
2. I don't recall saying that we wouldn't trade Orlando. I said I wouldn't trade Orlando for the compensation I thought we would get for him. I'm pretty sure I said nearly a dozen times that a trade was certainly possible, and I also said that the people expecting a Tunsil-level haul for him should prepare for disappointment when they said it. And boy... was that not even close to the compensation we got.
Having currently no idea whether its a good trade or not, my initial reaction to it was I didn't like it, because I don't think we got significant enough draft assets. I don't put much stock in the 3rd rounder we got, because we likely get the same in a comp pick in 2023 if we keep him. So we basically moved up about 25 spots from a 2 to a 1, and added a mid rounder. Me personally... I'd have liked to have kept an All-Pro level tackle for another year on a contending team, but time will tell what this deal looks like.
3. As for the Julio deal specifically, a bit of a difference compared to the others, considering this one, literally, costs a shit ton. It'll cost good draft capital and it'll cost significant $. This isn't getting Peters on a cheap deal, or paying for half a season of Yannick (there's a reason why we didn't acquire him until mid-way through, instead of in the preseason, which is what everybody suggested), while giving up mid-rounders.
You guys can shoot for the moon if you want to, and sometimes, it'll stick. But you're just setting yourself up for disappointment more often than not.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

1. Because so many fans have come to expect that this is Madden and you can just "trade your way" into great players, when it doesn't happen that often. And then when it doesn't happen, they be like "o man see we should have done that deal", when there was never a deal to be had or the price was never reasonable. Trading for Yannick didn't exactly prove to be very fruitful, did it? Peters was a win, Yannick was probably a loss.
Do people think we're hitting home runs with every trade we make? Some of these haven't been that spectacular...
2. I don't recall saying that we wouldn't trade Orlando. I said I wouldn't trade Orlando for the compensation I thought we would get for him. I'm pretty sure I said nearly a dozen times that a trade was certainly possible, and I also said that the people expecting a Tunsil-level haul for him should prepare for disappointment when they said it. And boy... was that not even close to the compensation we got.
Having currently no idea whether its a good trade or not, my initial reaction to it was I didn't like it, because I don't think we got significant enough draft assets. I don't put much stock in the 3rd rounder we got, because we likely get the same in a comp pick in 2023 if we keep him. So we basically moved up about 25 spots from a 2 to a 1, and added a mid rounder. Me personally... I'd have liked to have kept an All-Pro level tackle for another year on a contending team, but time will tell what this deal looks like.
3. As for the Julio deal specifically, a bit of a difference compared to the others, considering this one, literally, costs a shit ton. It'll cost good draft capital and it'll cost significant $. This isn't getting Peters on a cheap deal, or paying for half a season of Yannick (there's a reason why we didn't acquire him until mid-way through, instead of in the preseason, which is what everybody suggested), while giving up mid-rounders.
You guys can shoot for the moon if you want to, and sometimes, it'll stick. But you're just setting yourself up for disappointment more often than not.

“Shoot for the moon, and sometimes, it’ll stick”

Well if you shoot down every idea, you’ll be correct more often than not, I suppose.

 

[Deebo813]

He’s thinking of luck as this mythical supernatural force lol, like the universe is helping you out, @Deebo813 luck in this context is just playing the odds, simple numbers, the more picks you make the better your odds.

Yea i dnt mean if someone say “ dam you lucky mf”, but when they apply it literally like everyone on the same level, i just cant agree with it. One upon time people thought curry half court shots were luck

 

[JAAM]

You took the same stance that we wouldn’t trade Orlando, that we wouldn’t trade for an edge rusher in 2020, that we wouldn’t make any major trades midseason 2019, every time the discussion was brought up you had to intervene and tell everyone they were wasting their breath talking about trades, yet moderate sized trades happened time and time again, now it’s “the ravens won’t trade for Julio and also won’t draft a wr in the first, deal with it”

why do you enjoy this so much?

I mean it works out because whatever Buzz Killington says isn’t going to happen, it usually does. I hope he despises Bateman and Julio

 

[Deebo813]

Man, all of this Hollywood hate. I really didn’t think people would be that low on him. Duvernay, I understand. He’s still raw and stiff. But aside from his drops spell, he’s been a Legit NFL receiver and has scored 15tds, with big games in the postseason. He’s going to be fine. Just have to pair him up with better wide receivers to maximize his true potential.

Hollywood is a good wr i agree. Would likely easily get 1k yards in a better pass offense

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Yea i dnt mean if someone say “ dam you lucky mf”, but when they apply it literally like everyone on the same level, i just cant agree with it. One upon time people thought curry half court shots were luck

Well, curry is extremely skilled from downtown, but he wasn’t just efficient at shooting 3s, he downed an absolute fuckton of them, why?....





Because he took an absolute fuckton of shots

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mean it works out because whatever Buzz Killington says isn’t going to happen, it usually does. I hope he despises Bateman and Julio

Yup. And then we trade for a pass rusher that everybody prayed for, and six months later, its the #1 priority for the offseason.

Some people want to be right, and others want to get it right...

 

[drjohnnyfever]

They aren't. But my point is that when you typecast that you need a big WR, you often overlook some of the actual good WRs that don't meet the arbitrary threshold. There's long been this random assumption that a WR needs to be 6'3+ in order to be a dominant #1.

And if we look back to when Hollywood was drafted, the big bodied, jump ball-type was what we were linked to; with the caveat, "...but if Hollywood is around, he's a good alternative for this team..." I get it. All of these guys have attributes that are worth drafting for. But to an extent the "luck" issue that was discussed earlier comes in.

I've said for ever, the biggest attribute is catching the ball. Draft me a guy that can catch and has comparable stats everywhere else. 4.35 speed to 4.6 speed is like listening to a record on different receivers. Similarly, a rout runner who can't catch is a record that skips. Just pisses you offin the long run.

 

[rossihunter2]

And if we look back to when Hollywood was drafted, the big bodied, jump ball-type was what we were linked to; with the caveat, "...but if Hollywood is around, he's a good alternative for this team..." I get it. All of these guys have attributes that are worth drafting for. But to an extent the "luck" issue that was discussed earlier comes in.

I've said for ever, the biggest attribute is catching the ball. Draft me a guy that can catch and has comparable stats everywhere else. 4.35 speed to 4.6 speed is like listening to a record on different receivers. Similarly, a rout runner who can't catch is a record that skips. Just pisses you offin the long run.

i mean idk that i agree with this - there's a monumental difference between 4.35 speed and 4.6 speed

and while a receiver's number 1 job is to catch the ball it's pointless unless you can either win at the catch-point, or separate (or both)

so while the receiver's number 1 job is to catch the ball, their 1B job is to get open somehow

it doesnt matter how good someone's hands are if they can't separate and everything's contested - because no matter how good your hands are, if a corner's constantly able to disrupt at the catch point, idc who you are, you're not going to be successful consistently

but i agree with you generally that size doesn't really come into play as a super important high-up consideration necessarily (at least for me)

 

[Deebo813]

Well, curry is extremely skilled from downtown, but he wasn’t just efficient at shooting 3s, he downed an absolute fuckton of them, why?....





Because he took an absolute fuckton of shots

yea but he can do that! it takes skill to do so and thats why many cant and wont even try what he does.. it went from “ lucky shot” to basically not even getting mentioned now when he does it.. im just saying people mistake skill for luck.. “ lucky ass shot” “ lucky catch” “ lucky fumble”... when its used like that and meant literally, i just wont ever agree with it

 

[Ludy51]

No idea if this guys legit not I thought I’d share