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Signings, Cuts, Trades

RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
drjohnnyfever said:
It's somewhat surprising he took a pay cut to get out, but Cleveland has screwed the pooch on this since day one, so he probly saw it as a reasonable cost to get outta Dodge. He's not in a bad spot in Carolina. This is like the Tannyhill signing the Titans made when they were still deciding on Mariota. Mayfield has some upside... maybe not as much as RT going to Nashville, but... getting a 1st rounder for a 5th is generally highway robbery.
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and it's a 2024 compensatory pick.
 
JAAM

JAAM

Hall of Famer
DK is a Raven confirmed

 
UPennChem

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
i havent watched - anything in particular he said that stands out to you?
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Just the fact that Houston is kind of a GOAT. A one hundred sack guy so he doesn't just listen to the cliche kinda stuff about what to do when you're lined up against a guy. He said he studies every little thing Houston does. From how he practices, to how he talks, to how he watches film. He's put Houston under the microscope and wants to be like him.
 
Sandtown

Sandtown

Pro Bowler
rmcjacket23 said:
My counter to that would be the same thing for like 25 years... if these guys were actually really good, they'd have been playing already. Like despite what some fans think, Ravens coaches are actually not in the business of putting worse players on the field intentionally.

I look at it this way... if Proche is as good as all the hype says he is, why wasn't he able to beat out Watkins for a role last year? Why was he so far down the depth chart in terms of actual WR contributions? Like at the very least, he should have been the #3 behind Bateman and Hollywood, and that means we should have seen him contributing early in the year when Bateman wasn't playing.

The regular season really isn't the ideal time to figure out whether guys can play or not. You can learn it obviously, but that's quite literally what OTAs, training camp, and the preseason are for. So if these guys aren't showing enough in those settings to warrant playing time over somebody like a Watkins, there's cause for concern.

Now, at the moment, there is no Watkins, so we really have zero options but to play these guys. But again, if we get into the August-September timeframe, and you see the Ravens frantically looking for veteran WR help, that could easily be a signal that they're not seeing enough from these guys on the practice field to warrant giving them 60,70,80 targets a year.
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Watkins is a former first round receiver that still has major ability and upside. His issue in his career has always been his inability to stay healthy. I wouldn't even look to compare him and James Proche at all because they bring a different skillset on the field and Watkins has just been a more accomplished receiver/player. The Ravens simply weren't going to pay what they paid Sammy Watkins to bench him for James Proche. Watkins did receive less snaps on offense later on in season though and The Ravens didn't even bother to re-sign him even when they knew Hollywood Brown was on the trade block.

Honestly Proche did contribute last year especially when Bateman was out. I think one of his better games was against The Broncos when he had 74 receiving yards. It may not but have been consistent production but outside of that I don't think he received more playing time last year due to it being a numbers game especially when Bateman returned to play. Him not being as good as a gunner on special teams like Tylan Wallace and Miles Boykin was just wasn't enough to justify him being active on game days. Sammy Watkins, Hollywood Brown, Rashod Bateman and Devin Duvernay could all play the multiple roles on the field rather on the outside or in the slot. It just didn't make sense for The Ravens to have Proche active and they were going to give Bateman as much playing time as possible who I don't think played on special teams at all last year if not mistaken.


Proche isn't fast receiver and he isn't tall either. It's easier for receivers like him to get overlooked and faster and taller receivers will probably alway be considered more of threat on the field than him. I don't know if he can be just as good as Jarvis Landry but I don't think their skillsets are far apart and even with a guy like Jarvis Landry whom has been to many pro bowls would probably be consider less of threat on the football field in comparison to a receiver like Sammy Watkins.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Sandtown said:
Watkins is a former first round receiver that still has major ability and upside. His issue in his career has always been his inability to stay healthy. I wouldn't even look to compare him and James Proche at all because they bring a different skillset on the field and Watkins has just been a more accomplished receiver/player. The Ravens simply weren't going to pay what they paid Sammy Watkins to bench him for James Proche. Watkins did receive less snaps on offense later on in season though and The Ravens didn't even bother to re-sign him even when they knew Hollywood Brown was on the trade block.

Honestly Proche did contribute last year especially when Bateman was out. I think one of his better games was against The Broncos when he had 74 receiving yards. It may not but have been consistent production but outside of that I don't think he received more playing time last year due to it being a numbers game especially when Bateman returned to play. Him not being as good as a gunner on special teams like Tylan Wallace and Miles Boykin was just wasn't enough to justify him being active on game days. Sammy Watkins, Hollywood Brown, Rashod Bateman and Devin Duvernay could all play the multiple roles on the field rather on the outside or in the slot. It just didn't make sense for The Ravens to have Proche active and they were going to give Bateman as much playing time as possible who I don't think played on special teams at all last year if not mistaken.


Proche isn't fast receiver and he isn't tall either. It's easier for receivers like him to get overlooked and faster and taller receivers will probably alway be considered more of threat on the field than him. I don't know if he can be just as good as Jarvis Landry but I don't think their skillsets are far apart and even with a guy like Jarvis Landry whom has been to many pro bowls would probably be consider less of threat on the football field in comparison to a receiver like Sammy Watkins.
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when proche got snaps he produced - his issue last year was getting himself on the field ahead of an entrenched group of 3 starters to begin the year and then later in the year we had 7 receivers and he was the guy who didnt play special teams - which i found particularly odd because the game before he was deactivated he had 8 catches for 76 yards against the bengals - not game-breaking but did at least somewhat punish the bengals defence in the middle of the field for the extra attention they paid to bateman and hollywood even with josh johnson at QB

not going to pretend he's a lock to be great - just think it's not as simple as... "if he's good then why didnt he play"
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
when proche got snaps he produced - his issue last year was getting himself on the field ahead of an entrenched group of 3 starters to begin the year and then later in the year we had 7 receivers and he was the guy who didnt play special teams - which i found particularly odd because the game before he was deactivated he had 8 catches for 76 yards against the bengals - not game-breaking but did at least somewhat punish the bengals defence in the middle of the field for the extra attention they paid to bateman and hollywood even with josh johnson at QB

not going to pretend he's a lock to be great - just think it's not as simple as... "if he's good then why didnt he play"
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It might not be entirely that simple, but I also think some of you are overestimating this idea that Watkins had to play ahead of him simply because we pay him more.
The fact that the Ravens deactivated him a week after he had his best game ever is a pretty strong red flag. That's usually the time I break out the "the coaching staff knows something the public doesn't" mantra.

The reality is that competition for positions and playing time, in a lot of cases, doesn't really exist in-season. The only time that happens is a) when there's an injury to an incumbent starter, and there's no clearly defined "backup" and b) when the incumbent starter is basically so terrible that there's no clear difference between himself and the backup.

So if Proche isn't winning that #3 WR spot in camp, which he didn't last year basically, then there's very little chance of him being promoted mid-season, without one of the two things I listed occurring.

So if we're in agreement that Proche basically "isn't as good" as Watkins, which I agree with, what are we saying? I think most of us would agree that even a healthy Watkins is basically a low-end #2 WR, high-end #3 WR on most NFL rosters. And if Proche isn't that, then how confident should we be that he will be better than that this year as a Raven?

Now I personally am not sweating it, mostly because I see a lot of young mouths to feed, I think we're going to be extremely multiple and diverse in terms of personnel groupings and utilizing pass catchers this year, and I'm pretty convinced we'll be utilizing TEs and RBs more in the passing game than we've seen last year or maybe even the year before.

If we go back to 2019, you had heavier target shares for Andrews and Hollywood (which is now Bateman), and then you basically had 4-5 guys who all had the same target shares, roughly. Snead 46, Boyle 43, Hurst 39, Roberts 35, another 55 from RBs. That's probably what 2022 will look like. I don't think Proche or Duvernay or Wallace are going to separate themselves from the rest. I don't think there will be a clear #2 WR in this offense. I think they'll play heavy rotations, have certain personnel groups/matchups for all, and that'll be that.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Excited to have Houston back officially. That puts him, Oweh, and Hayes as your top 3 week 1, with some hope for Bowser potentially as well. Leaves Biegel, Means, and Moon fighting for OLB4/5, and Ojabo in the pipeline for later in the season hopefully.
 
Davesta

Davesta

Ravens Ring of Honor
Simba said:
Excited to have Houston back officially. That puts him, Oweh, and Hayes as your top 3 week 1, with some hope for Bowser potentially as well. Leaves Biegel, Means, and Moon fighting for OLB4/5, and Ojabo in the pipeline for later in the season hopefully.
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What’s the rule for IR-designated to return tag nowadays? I know it used to be that we gotta squeeze em into the 53 then IR them. Is it new with the covid rules?

Plus how many players can return? This gonna be a tough cut this year. We got so much depth
 
UPennChem

UPennChem

Hall of Famer
If Bowser's recovery is even similar to Justice Hill's let alone Akers, he'll be ready for week 1. Achilles is just not the injury it used to be.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
Davesta said:
What’s the rule for IR-designated to return tag nowadays? I know it used to be that we gotta squeeze em into the 53 then IR them. Is it new with the covid rules?

Plus how many players can return? This gonna be a tough cut this year. We got so much depth
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Same deal with them making the 53 first. But now they sit out a minimum of 4 weeks and you can do it up to 8 times.
 
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