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Signings, Cuts, Trades

redrum52

redrum52

Hall of Famer
Simba said:
But that's Lamar's thinking as well. Regardless of what happens this year, even if he were to get hurt, the offer he got on the table is likely the minimum an offer is going to be next year. Why not wait and see if one of those guys breaks the bank? He's not really risking anything in all actuality. He's getting more money out of this deal by sitting and waiting, while the Ravens are content to sit and wait and hope that the fully guaranteed angle isn't a trend. Fair offer this year for both sides but also smart by both sides to wait it out. Ravens might end up paying more but I think they'll be content with that not to set a trend.
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Simba said:
Would not impact his market value in the slightest. Only something catastrophic
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Basically been saying this. The floor on his price isn't going down. He has no incentive to sign now and if the Ravens are dumb enough to let him go he'll get tagged and then make his money in FA. Off the top of my head there's the Panthers, Vikings, Dolphins, Giants, Falcons, Commies, Seahawks and Niners. All them would bend over backwards twice for a shot at Lamar and one of those teams was desperate enough to give Kirk Cousins the first fully guaranteed deal.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
rmcjacket23 said:
I think its somewhere in the middle.
I understand the Ravens offer and it's not a lowball offer or unreasonable by any metric.
I understand Lamar wanting a fully guaranteed contract because Watson got one, and I understand him not accepting anything until he gets it.

Both sides are doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Why I would advise Lamar to probably make a deal after the season and before getting franchise tagged is a) his life will be harder playing on a franchise tag (i.e. his teams rate to be worse), b) barring a season that involves a Lombardi trophy, I don't see the Ravens giving him a fully guaranteed deal in the 5+ year range now or in the future, c) I'm not convinced any other team in the league will either. And that includes desperate teams.
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more to the point - by holding onto the idea that he wants a fully guaranteed deal like watson's, even if he compromises he's gonna get a ridiculously high percentage of his deal guaranteed vs what he would have got 2 years ago

its naive though to think no team would fully guarantee a deal for him though - the fact that watson got the deal he got kind of proves it - as much as the owners will collectively grumble, there's going to be at least a handful who would do a deal like that for lamar
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
redrum52 said:
Basically been saying this. The floor on his price isn't going down. He has no incentive to sign now and if the Ravens are dumb enough to let him go he'll get tagged and then make his money in FA. Off the top of my head there's the Panthers, Vikings, Dolphins, Giants, Falcons, Commies, Seahawks and Niners. All them would bend over backwards twice for a shot at Lamar and one of those teams was desperate enough to give Kirk Cousins the first fully guaranteed deal.
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And I don't think they will be dumb enough to get to that point. The Ravens hold a little bit of leverage right now in that his cap hit isn't completely unmanageable. I'd imagine next year once that FT number hits, they'll be much more hard pressed to try to get something done.
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
he would have had more total guarantees than anyone in the league except Watson - kyler had 160m in total guarantees and russ had 165m in total guarantees - lamar's 160-180 range most likely would have been bigger than both of them

all we know right now is what the ravens were offering lamar when they had the leverage, they will have a lot less leverage next year because of the franchise tag cap hit - i imagine the offered contract is going to get substantially bigger in terms of guarantees when they're next at the table
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Kyler's total guaranteed is 189.5, 103 at signing

From that perspective, Lamar was way undervalued by the Ravens if total guaranteed was less than 200, probably more, with the assumption that 160-180 rumours are correct.
 
Simba

Simba

Staff Member
Moderator
allblackraven said:
Kyler's total guaranteed is 189.5, 103 at signing

From that perspective, Lamar was way undervalued by the Ravens if total guaranteed was less than 200, probably more, with the assumption that 160-180 rumours are correct.
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Would also argue here that a lot of Kyler's "guaranteed" money is tied to roster bonuses which isn't as guaranteed as they make it out to be.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
he would have had more total guarantees than anyone in the league except Watson - kyler had 160m in total guarantees and russ had 165m in total guarantees - lamar's 160-180 range most likely would have been bigger than both of them

all we know right now is what the ravens were offering lamar when they had the leverage, they will have a lot less leverage next year because of the franchise tag cap hit - i imagine the offered contract is going to get substantially bigger in terms of guarantees when they're next at the table
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Maybe. I don't think its going to change dramatically unless somebody else signs before he does and comes in higher.

Only thing the franchise tag does is lock in how much money they'll have to pay him next year and, maybe, the year after. It means he'll get sizeable cash flow in first two years. Don't think it changes anything about AAV, Gtd money, etc. unless he is like the best QB in the league this year and wins a ton, or somebody else signs before him.

Also, as I said before, I don't think the Ravens are terrified of the cap hit next year as much as we would suspect. It's limiting, but not devastating. Not talking substantial roster cuts that weren't likely to happen already. Just won't be big spenders in FA.

And that's based on the assumption of like a $30-35M increase to the cap.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
rossihunter2 said:
more to the point - by holding onto the idea that he wants a fully guaranteed deal like watson's, even if he compromises he's gonna get a ridiculously high percentage of his deal guaranteed vs what he would have got 2 years ago

its naive though to think no team would fully guarantee a deal for him though - the fact that watson got the deal he got kind of proves it - as much as the owners will collectively grumble, there's going to be at least a handful who would do a deal like that for lamar
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And the latter point I disagree with. 3 years fully guaranteed? Sure. Maybe even 4. Not 5-6. Many of the franchises that would be in desperate shape for QB play also are notoriously stingy when it comes to major cash investments on players. And I think no Owner wants to be the guy who commits fully guaranteed money to a player, who then gets the Alex Smith injury, and is left holding a bag he can't get rid of. I think their ego and desire for profitability will trump that.

Not to mention the fact that there's plenty of Owners and GMs who feel they can simply find the next Lamar in the draft for a whole lot less. That's naive, but it's not like that's unprecedented either.
 
D

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23 said:
And the latter point I disagree with. 3 years fully guaranteed? Sure. Maybe even 4. Not 5-6. Many of the franchises that would be in desperate shape for QB play also are notoriously stingy when it comes to major cash investments on players. And I think no Owner wants to be the guy who commits fully guaranteed money to a player, who then gets the Alex Smith injury, and is left holding a bag he can't get rid of. I think their ego and desire for profitability will trump that.

Not to mention the fact that there's plenty of Owners and GMs who feel they can simply find the next Lamar in the draft for a whole lot less. That's naive, but it's not like that's unprecedented either.
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They have a better chance at finding anyother qb besides lamar tbh.
 
JoeyFlex5

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Tank said:
I really don’t think fully guaranteed contracts are the “going rate”, nor will they ever become the norm. Isn’t that the sticking point from Lamar’s perspective? Other than that it seems the Ravens offer was the going rate.
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I don’t think fully guaranteed will be the norm, and I also think fully guaranteed can be a generalization here, can’t imagine Lamar turning down 200m guaranteed just because theres another 50m that isn’t guaranteed. It’s not that he’s gotta have a fully guaranteed deal, it’s that the guaranteed money he was offered wasnt high enough.
 
Militant X 1

Militant X 1

Ravens Ring of Honor
Deal is Done!!!
www.profootballrumors.com

Ravens To Sign Jason Pierre-Paul

Jason Pierre-Paul's second Ravens visit this year will end up producing a deal. The veteran edge rusher told CBS Sports' …
www.profootballrumors.com www.profootballrumors.com
 
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