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The 2023 Offseason Thread

UPennChem said:
Here's the thing. Does he want 240? If his number was 205 and they offered 200, he'd have taken it.

The Ravens need to look themselves in the mirror and say I'm happy to give Lamar the Watson contract or I'm not and I'm trading him.

If this is what Lamar wants, I'd respect the FO if they roll the dice on him, but I'd also respect them trading him for a HAUL
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Right, that's my point. IF that's the real offer (and its totally speculative that it is), I'd not offer a penny more, and I won't blame the Ravens for half a second to trade him.
Frankly, I wouldn't even bother negotiating anymore. I'd just trade him now before FA opens so we can start the process.

I also don't think the Ravens are the only one's who need to look themselves in the mirror. If he's turning down an offer like this, I think the mirror checking needs to be on Lamar's end, not the Ravens. Ravens would have presented an incredibly fair offer for both sides if that's true. And that's by pretty much any possible metric you want to look at.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
Just to note what some have been wondering...


So if this report was true, the $130M is gtd at signing, with $200M in total gtd $.
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do we know where spears got the 200m number from?

the number we heard from Russini (that she got Lamar to confirm) was that it was somewhere between 160 and 180m in total guarantees
and lamar was shocked at the idea of turning down 200m guaranteed at his presser before the season...

im guessing either way, that 133m fully guaranteed at signing isnt gonna do it though and if we're gonna set up guarantees with a bunch of roster bonuses that guarantee a year before they're paid (which basically makes them guaranteed anyway tbh unless lamar's career ends prematurely) then there's not much harm in turning some of those into guarantees at signing to get that 133 number up

as long as Lamar's willing to not go fully guaranteed on the whole deal
 
rossihunter2 said:
do we know where spears got the 200m number from?

the number we heard from Russini (that she got Lamar to confirm) was that it was somewhere between 160 and 180m in total guarantees
and lamar was shocked at the idea of turning down 200m guaranteed at his presser before the season...

im guessing either way, that 133m fully guaranteed at signing isnt gonna do it though and if we're gonna set up guarantees with a bunch of roster bonuses that guarantee a year before they're paid (which basically makes them guaranteed anyway tbh unless lamar's career ends prematurely) then there's not much harm in turning some of those into guarantees at signing to get that 133 number up

as long as Lamar's willing to not go fully guaranteed on the whole deal
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I feel the $133M is a bit too low, maybe up it to $175M at signing? Obviously it's a bit more complicated than it was with Joe's contract but regardless of what kind of deal we end up agreeing upon, we are going to have to do an extension after 3-4 years to lower his cap hit in the future.

That's the one thing about these so called mega contracts, they will be going back to the negotiation table in 3-4 years to lower the cap hit and they never see the full amount of money.
 
rossihunter2 said:
do we know where spears got the 200m number from?

the number we heard from Russini (that she got Lamar to confirm) was that it was somewhere between 160 and 180m in total guarantees
and lamar was shocked at the idea of turning down 200m guaranteed at his presser before the season...

im guessing either way, that 133m fully guaranteed at signing isnt gonna do it though and if we're gonna set up guarantees with a bunch of roster bonuses that guarantee a year before they're paid (which basically makes them guaranteed anyway tbh unless lamar's career ends prematurely) then there's not much harm in turning some of those into guarantees at signing to get that 133 number up

as long as Lamar's willing to not go fully guaranteed on the whole deal
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JO_75 said:
I feel the $133M is a bit too low, maybe up it to $175M at signing? Obviously it's a bit more complicated than it was with Joe's contract but regardless of what kind of deal we end up agreeing upon, we are going to have to do an extension after 3-4 years to lower his cap hit in the future.

That's the one thing about these so called mega contracts, they will be going back to the negotiation table in 3-4 years to lower the cap hit and they never see the full amount of money.
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OK, but why is $133M at signing too low? Nobody else except Watson has gotten that #, and obviously because he got fully gtd.
Wilson was $124M at signing, and Murray is at $103M.

$175M gtd at signing seems like a pretty outrageous # to me, compared to what others have gotten.

On the contract itself, it really just depends on how it plays out. If he has, say, a $60M cap hit in 2026, are we sure that's really going to be that big? Most people expect the salary cap to be around $300M by then.

Basically a $60m cap hit in 3 years is likely to be the equivalent of a $45M cap hit today. So yeah, it's not ideal, but we know teams can win allocating 20% of their salary cap to the QB.

When they would need to do an extension would depend on the length of the deal. If it's a 6 year deal, it'll be year 4 probably before we're even talking about it. And then its just a question of whether you actually want to extend the deal, of if you're looking to get out of it.
 
rossihunter2 said:
do we know where spears got the 200m number from?

the number we heard from Russini (that she got Lamar to confirm) was that it was somewhere between 160 and 180m in total guarantees
and lamar was shocked at the idea of turning down 200m guaranteed at his presser before the season...

im guessing either way, that 133m fully guaranteed at signing isnt gonna do it though and if we're gonna set up guarantees with a bunch of roster bonuses that guarantee a year before they're paid (which basically makes them guaranteed anyway tbh unless lamar's career ends prematurely) then there's not much harm in turning some of those into guarantees at signing to get that 133 number up

as long as Lamar's willing to not go fully guaranteed on the whole deal
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I remember that. That’s key because he was surprised at the 200 number. That was the only time we heard or saw anything from him.
 
rmcjacket23 said:
OK, but why is $133M at signing too low? Nobody else except Watson has gotten that #, and obviously because he got fully gtd.
Wilson was $124M at signing, and Murray is at $103M.

$175M gtd at signing seems like a pretty outrageous # to me, compared to what others have gotten.

On the contract itself, it really just depends on how it plays out. If he has, say, a $60M cap hit in 2026, are we sure that's really going to be that big? Most people expect the salary cap to be around $300M by then.

Basically a $60m cap hit in 3 years is likely to be the equivalent of a $45M cap hit today. So yeah, it's not ideal, but we know teams can win allocating 20% of their salary cap to the QB.

When they would need to do an extension would depend on the length of the deal. If it's a 6 year deal, it'll be year 4 probably before we're even talking about it. And then its just a question of whether you actually want to extend the deal, of if you're looking to get out of it.
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i mean the 133 is too low because he's not signing at that number
and the ravens were clearly happy to offer that in september so highly likely they're gonna have to offer more than that this time around and they would have known that when he turned down 133...
 
rossihunter2 said:
i mean the 133 is too low because he's not signing at that number
and the ravens were clearly happy to offer that in september so highly likely they're gonna have to offer more than that this time around and they would have known that when he turned down 133...
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Right but that presumes that the gtd at signing $ is what he's unhappy with. I don't know that.
 
rossihunter2 said:
i mean the 133 is too low because he's not signing at that number
and the ravens were clearly happy to offer that in september so highly likely they're gonna have to offer more than that this time around and they would have known that when he turned down 133...
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I’m trying to understand why they would offer more than they did in September, whatever that figure was. A lot of supposition here, but I’m pretty sure they wanted to get things done back then so it wouldn’t be a distraction during the season and accordingly placed their best and final on the table. So what happened during the season that would make them increase their offer? Don’t understand the reasoning from a bargaining point of view.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
This is where I’m at. If Lamar is gonna try to rake the franchise over the coals so he can participate in a dick measuring contest among the leagues top qbs, then get the best return you can.
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And you know EDC gon fleece tf outta some chump franchise
 
So we just waiting to interview Bienemy and Brian Johnson at this point? It seems the second interviews are just to bide time until we can interview coaches from KC and Philly after the Super Bowl. I know overall it has been a slow hiring process for a lot of teams but just another reason why interviews should be pushed back until after the Super Bowl.
 
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