OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yea kind of forgetting that possession that was huge
-
Welcome to PurpleFlock! Sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.
The Running Game, the Turnovers, and the Same Ol’ Ravens
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
It's a good thing I didn't make this argument.
I would argue they are because if Andrews doesn't drop the pass, it's 2nd and 1 instead of 2nd and 10.
The Ravens had already shown a willingness to run from the I in this game and I would imagine they would have done the same here. Of course, that's speculation on my end, but I do think the play calling changes.
Disagree for the reason you mentioned later (so I suppose this is debating what "worse" means.)
Lamar's was worse in the sense that it was more of an unforced error than Andrews' (although, I'd argue Andrews was incredibly dumb to try to 180 and turn into two defenders, but I digress.) However, as you said, Andrews' was more back breaking because the Ravens were driving well and approaching reasonable field goal range. For me, that makes it worse.
I can't even call it poor execution. Milano made a good play to tip the pass. It wasn't like it was a wildly inaccurate pass or players failed to get open. Just a good defensive play.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
There are too many people calling Lamar a choke artist. Fuck you Andrews, you did this.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Worse in my case meaning an unenforced error that's entirely preventable by the player. Andrews made mistakes on that play, but a defender actually made a good play on the ball to force it out.
Lamar's was dumber. Andrews was more impactful.
And I understand the play calling changes without the drop. But then every play after that changes as well, because the entire circumstances change. Which means maybe we win or maybe we lose by 20. Impossible to know.
I can agree- I had said that I'd have preferred Lamar fall on the ball and just live another down, but that's also part of Lamar magic, so I wouldn't have expected him to fall on it.
Totally agree there, too. Things don't get simply changed in a vacuum. Just pointing out that a lot went wrong for the Ravens in this game past just the turnovers. The turnovers are the easiest to remember and see in the box score, but so many small failures added up and had an additional huge net negative on the game.
I'm blessed to live long enough to witness Joe Flacco era and Lamar Jackson era. When Joe Flacco was the quarterback the team faced many obstacles and some heart break losses in the playoffs. It taught me in life that somethings aren't guaranteed no matter how good things may appear or are. Its really all about the journey and to appreciate it.
Lamar Jackson era has bought so much fun and seasons as a Raven fan that I don't think any of us have been accustomed to witnessing but I feel like his success or team success has made me feel some since of entitlement and when things don't go the way I want it go I pout or feel like this shouldn't have happened. I feel like a super bowl should have happened or this or that should have happened like I'm a ungrateful kid unsatisfied with his Christmas.gift.without taking in the consideration of the time and effort it required from the gift giver.
I'm proud to the team success this year. Seeing Lamar's growth at the quarterback position and as leader of the team was dope to see. Many didn't think Zach Orr would work out but to see how he was able to get things settled and basically prove he was good defensive coordinator after all was dope to see. Watching Derrick Henry was really fun and I haven't seen a running back this dynamic for the ravens since Ray Rice. Seeing how this team was able handle adversity from starting the season at 0- 2 to ending the season as AFC North champion and to win a playoff game against the Steelers was dope to see.
I think their success made me feel like they were unstoppable and their destiny was set for a super bowl appearance but obviously that didn't happen. I feel bad for Mark Andrews cause dude is nothing but a hard worker and his accomplishments reflect that. I think his desires to win a super bowl is just as big as Lamar's. I hope he isn't sitting around putting all the blame on himself and is in a super dark place. I hope and pray that he uses what happened to become better not just as player but as a person as well. At the same time Ray Lewis said it best this just a game and can't be having your head hanging down. Team just got to regroup and take another chance at it next season . Im excited to see how they respond cause they will eventually accomplish their goal . This team may have failed to make it to the super bowl this year but I don't think this season overall was a failure
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
Mark Andrews is hurting Lamar in the playoffs , it’s a consistent thing now. We would be talking about how Lamar overcame a sloppy first half and battled back from 11 to beat the Bills if he doesn’t fumble. The confidence going into KC after rallying back would have been insane. Mark Andrews needs to be traded, he fades way too much in the playoffs
On the Mark Andrews front, the one thing I've found most surprising is that he opted not to face the media. While I don't think guys owe an explanation, I do think the culture has been one of accountability. Zay faced the media as a rookie last year when he messed up. Lamar is always out there facing the media. Tucker never once shied away during his struggles. Mark was just unavailable, and I think it only bothers me a bit because he got that C on his chest which has never been done before.
What other play off game where Mark Andrews hurt Lamar Jackson in the playoffs ? I honestly can't remember
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
2019 he tipped up the pass on the first drive that hit his hands and ended up being an interception and started our spiral. 2020 he dropped a TD pass against the Titans. He killed the team chemistry against the Chiefs. But overall he is supposed to be Lamar’s trusted target and he has 8 drops in 8 playoff games, 40ypg and 0TDs, plus the devastating fumble. 3 INTs when being targeted too. Has never had over 80 yards in a playoff campaign, Likely has over 100 this year.
The Lamar haters are out in full force despite the fact that I think Lamar quite literally proved the narrative wrong this game if Andrews just made basic plays.
Daniels threw a WR screen that got housed , Bureow has done it to chase in the playoffs. When has Lamar ever gotten an easy button playoff game from his teammates? I swear he has to do everything on offense.
He was hurt a few weeks earlier and wasn't 100%. He couldn't jump as high to catch the pass and the ball was tipped in the air.
Andrews right now is up their with Earnest Byners fumble with the colts on the goal line.
OURavensFan
Ravens Ring of Honor
I mean it’s brutal. I wanted Andrews to break out in the playoffs and was expecting it based on how well he played the second half of the year.
If we can maybe make him take a cut or extend to smooth he can come back. You still need to plan for injury and depth so having Likely and Andrews is probably the best way to do that. But god damn he is killing us in the playoffs.
SaltyDog
MVP
Not sure how you can say that with certainty. I mean one could argue that the Lamar fumble cost us more points (7 points on the bills td vs. 2pc). It also probably cost us from scoring something on that drive. May not have even needed the 2pc at the end. The 2pc would have tied the game and send it to ot, Still no guarantee of a win.
I agree that Andrews should have made that catch, but I also believe that mistakes made early in a game are no less important then mistakes at the end. If people are going to trash Andrews then it is perfectly fair to trash Lamar. And I think both are getting it this week.
Last edited:
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
On the last part... the issue with the turnovers is it simply takes the ball out of your hands. People wanted us to run it more. Well one way to run it more is to possess the ball more. When you turn it over three times, by definition, you possess it less.
I think small failures can be overcome. Big one's can't. There was at least two massive failures in this game (the fumbles) that changed everything about this game.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
So for me, its irrelevant. For starters, I remember nothing about what Zay said last year, and honestly, there's nothing any of these players can ever say to make things "better". By definition, the only thing they can do is make things worse by speaking.
I certainly don't think Andrews owes any fans literally anything, and I'd bet there were conversations in the locker room with his teammates that reflect the regret he had. That's all that matters.
Accountability in this league is something that is rarely ever achieved at the podium in a post-game. It's achieved through the people in the locker room, and through the compensation and job stability these players have. If the players, coaches or organization don't think he's being held accountable, or he's not holding himself accountable, then he simply just won't be here any more. He's not guaranteed another year on this team.
redrum52
Hall of Famer
Didn't like this at all. Win or lose with all the heat Lamar takes, I never remember him skipping out media. As you said even rookie showed up after his mistakes. Tucker easily could have dodged them with how his season was going.
He seems good for at least 1 big drop each playoff series. That drop people want to gloss over would have had us around the Bills 20. Drop, bad snap and fumble. Now Bills have the ball in the redzone to take the lead.
Then the fumble to me was the worst play due to timing and how were driving. ANY points there and this game is different.
And maybe I'm just a fan but the amount of hate for the fumble seems crazy to me when he was even able to recover. It seems to save face his best outcome would have been to not even catch the bad snap to avoid criticism. Almost immediately after he recovers someone is in his face.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
So, by definition, mistakes made later have to be more important, because your next decision is predicated off information obtained from the previous one. Hence why I said that, in most cases, the next game is more important than the previous game, because I now have more information about my playoff seeding, standings, etc than I had the prior week.
I'm not surprised this is your feeling. I don't care greatly, but I do find it kind of odd that a guy with a C on his chest has been "hiding" for lack of a better term. It's that simple.