The Offense Thread

[rossihunter2]

He looked good against Oakland and had pretty solid games against the Bengals and Browns to open the season, all with the brace on, so I doubt that's the reason.

our offence was anaemic vs the bengals and had 1 half decent half vs the browns but it was a lot of short throws still
oakland was the only really impressive game and joe had so much time in the pocket vs the raiders

maybe it isnt the brace but just on the eye test watching joe in the pocket yesterday he looked more balanced and lighter on his feet - i think even if it didnt physically prevent him from doing so, i think mentally it helped him to be lighter on his feet - joe was bouncing on his toes in the pocket and stepping into his throws more than ive seen for 2 years

this is all under the proviso that he was throwing into a bad defence but his footwork and mechanics were the best ive seen for a long time - i just went through some of the broadcast footage again just to make sure but i watched back a load of passing plays and didnt even look at where the ball went i just watched joe and how he was throwing and it looked great - so i have to think that the brace had something to do with it at least mentally even if not physically

 

[cobrajet]

I still need more time to digest this.

But I mean, I think it's the result of letting Joe attack downfield and staying somewhat committed to the run game. Let Joe be Joe and don't forget to run the ball, and the Ravens are a playoff contender. Simply put, we stopped playing scared.

Do you think when Joe kind of called out Marty’s playcalling after last game, maybe Marty said okay Joe we will do it your way and see if it works better. Joe then went out and backed up his comments.

And for the record, I thought I saw a spark in Joe after the Texans game. I had a feeling something good would happen yesterday. I was called a homer, but it’s all good. Hopefully Joe keeps it up next week against the Steelers. He usually gives us a good game against Pittsburgh. Uh oh, there I go being positive again......lol.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

our offence was anaemic vs the bengals and had 1 half decent half vs the browns but it was a lot of short throws still
oakland was the only really impressive game and joe had so much time in the pocket vs the raiders

maybe it isnt the brace but just on the eye test watching joe in the pocket yesterday he looked more balanced and lighter on his feet - i think even if it didnt physically prevent him from doing so, i think mentally it helped him to be lighter on his feet - joe was bouncing on his toes in the pocket and stepping into his throws more than ive seen for 2 years

this is all under the proviso that he was throwing into a bad defence but his footwork and mechanics were the best ive seen for a long time - i just went through some of the broadcast footage again just to make sure but i watched back a load of passing plays and didnt even look at where the ball went i just watched joe and how he was throwing and it looked great - so i have to think that the brace had something to do with it at least mentally even if not physically

Thr offense had like 150 rushing yards against the Bengals and did all it needed to do to win the game. Flacco also had his first touchdown to Maclin and it was a great pass to set up YAC.

Week 2 against the Browns, Ravens greatly increased Flacco's load and he responded pretty well. Again, run offense killed it. Could not be upset one bit with how they did.

They were like a combined 40% on third down.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

it's not that those few plays specifically changed the offence on their own but the variety they provided made the defence not double down on the few things we did earlier in the year which gives joe a fraction more time and a lot more space to work in - im not underselling flacco but im saying there is a symbiotic relationship between the playcalling/design and qb performance and this was the first game of the year where the 2 parts really helped each other rather than spited each other - and its a positive vicious cycle - when the playcalling gives joe more time and space he throws with better mechanics/footwork/confidence which opens up the offence even more and makes different playcalls successful

Again, I really don't think much of anything changed. We just saw much better execution.

Crazy that players need to exercute for am offense to work, isn't it?

 

[rossihunter2]

Again, I really don't think much of anything changed. We just saw much better execution.

Crazy that players need to exercute for am offense to work, isn't it?

except im not sure all the units did execute that well - the wrs had 5 drops (4 of which were first downs and the other was an 7-8 yard gain on 1st down with potential for some YAC) - and i have to disagree about nothing changing much - i saw us consistently use play fakes and boots to increase joe's time and create space in the passing game which we've done at most 3 times in a game before yesterday, woodhead was lined outside with collins on the field to draw a defender out of the box, woodhead was lined up in the slot a couple of times - its not just on the plays where it worked that i was encouraged it was that even the plays that didnt work looked better and forced the defence to open up and gave joe more time

obviously inevitably it does come down to execution but execution becomes a lot easier when the playcalling is better and assists its players and their strengths:
View attachment 345


EDIT: just to emphasise the above next gen graph is ball in the air rather than the end result of the play - which is important because joe threw in spots that would create YAC opportunities including the TE screen, the passes to the flats and some intermediate throws that were able to turn up field - and the incompletions are important too because they demonstrate that he was still attempting further downfield than we've seen in recent months

 

[RavensMania]

I didn't notice a drastic variation in the play calling other than a few more instances of play action, the tight end screen, and splitting Woodhead out. I mean, that may have accounted for six, seven of the plays, but really, this was on Joe.

Joe threw the ball more than 10 yards on 33% of his pass attempts and he looked damn good doing it. Prior to this week, for the previous six weeks, Joe had thrown the ball down the field (more than 20 yards) around 25 times and only connected with a receiver once. I don't know what Joe's completion percent was on these throws, but I bet it was over 60% on all passes over 10 yards and that's really not something we've seen from Joe.

He threw down field more and he threw with accuracy and precision.

Bird, you better win in fantasy today. I’m counting in you...

 

[rossihunter2]

I didn't notice a drastic variation in the play calling other than a few more instances of play action, the tight end screen, and splitting Woodhead out. I mean, that may have accounted for six, seven of the plays, but really, this was on Joe.

Joe threw the ball more than 10 yards on 33% of his pass attempts and he looked damn good doing it. Prior to this week, for the previous six weeks, Joe had thrown the ball down the field (more than 20 yards) around 25 times and only connected with a receiver once. I don't know what Joe's completion percent was on these throws, but I bet it was over 60% on all passes over 10 yards and that's really not something we've seen from Joe.

He threw down field more and he threw with accuracy and precision.

i also meant to post this from pff under the last post but forgot to paste the image

 

[Willbacker]

our offence was anaemic vs the bengals and had 1 half decent half vs the browns but it was a lot of short throws still
oakland was the only really impressive game and joe had so much time in the pocket vs the raiders

maybe it isnt the brace but just on the eye test watching joe in the pocket yesterday he looked more balanced and lighter on his feet - i think even if it didnt physically prevent him from doing so, i think mentally it helped him to be lighter on his feet - joe was bouncing on his toes in the pocket and stepping into his throws more than ive seen for 2 years

this is all under the proviso that he was throwing into a bad defence but his footwork and mechanics were the best ive seen for a long time - i just went through some of the broadcast footage again just to make sure but i watched back a load of passing plays and didnt even look at where the ball went i just watched joe and how he was throwing and it looked great - so i have to think that the brace had something to do with it at least mentally even if not physically

I was thinking that during the game how much more mobile he looked. Thanks for the info on the brace. Had no idea.

Do you think when Joe kind of called out Marty’s playcalling after last game, maybe Marty said okay Joe we will do it your way and see if it works better. Joe then went out and backed up his comments.

And for the record, I thought I saw a spark in Joe after the Texans game. I had a feeling something good would happen yesterday. I was called a homer, but it’s all good. Hopefully Joe keeps it up next week against the Steelers. He usually gives us a good game against Pittsburgh. Uh oh, there I go being positive again......lol.

Flaccohaters lol. Really didn't see many checkdowns and it was about time Joe said something

 

[rossihunter2]

I was thinking that during the game how much more mobile he looked. Thanks for the info on the brace. Had no idea.

it's not confirmed, it's my conjecture from looking at his legs when replaying the game but they look different to with the brace the last couple of years

 

[rossihunter2]

Flaccohaters lol. Really didn't see many checkdowns and it was about time Joe said something

i mean there were checkdowns and other short passes and passes out to the flats but the difference was that joe was reading the field before throwing and didnt stare down guys or preemptively decide where the ball was going and it meant that if he went to the checkdown it was a better option than in previous games

 

[29BmoreBird22]

except im not sure all the units did execute that well - the wrs had 5 drops (4 of which were first downs and the other was an 7-8 yard gain on 1st down with potential for some YAC) - and i have to disagree about nothing changing much - i saw us consistently use play fakes and boots to increase joe's time and create space in the passing game which we've done at most 3 times in a game before yesterday, woodhead was lined outside with collins on the field to draw a defender out of the box, woodhead was lined up in the slot a couple of times - its not just on the plays where it worked that i was encouraged it was that even the plays that didnt work looked better and forced the defence to open up and gave joe more time

obviously inevitably it does come down to execution but execution becomes a lot easier when the playcalling is better and assists its players and their strengths:
View attachment 345

Yeah, that doesn't change anything for me. And I didn't say all the units executed, but Joe certainly did.

We're not really seeing anything different. By that chart, Joe had 9 passes over 36 yards. PFF had him at 12 passes over 10 yards. Again, before this game, for six games, Joe averaged FOUR passes over 20 yards per game. Difference is he only completed one of those and looked generally inaccurate on the rest. In this game, he was 2 of 4 and one I know set up a touchdown.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

i also meant to post this from pff under the last post but forgot to paste the image

The biggest difference being the passer rating deep. He was like 40 for the season prior to this game.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah, that doesn't change anything for me. And I didn't say all the units executed, but Joe certainly did.

We're not really seeing anything different. By that chart, Joe had 9 passes over 36 yards. PFF had him at 12 passes over 10 yards. Again, before this game, for six games, Joe averaged FOUR passes over 20 yards per game. Difference is he only completed one of those and looked generally inaccurate on the rest. In this game, he was 2 of 4 and one I know set up a touchdown.

The biggest difference being the passer rating deep. He was like 40 for the season prior to this game.

there's no part of my arguments above that suggests that joe didnt execute - joe had the best game ive seen from him since 2014 no doubt in my mind - the way he moved in the pocket, used his feet in the pocket, read the field, threw with anticipation and led his receivers was like having an entirely new qb all of a sudden

and N.B. that chart is just the ball through the air rather than the finishing result of the gain on a pass (posted it because it was interesting rather than anything to do with my argument above it)

my point lies more in the sense that i disagree that the playcalling wasnt fundamentally different and that the different playcalling had a significant contribution in allowing joe to be better and execute - it was more diverse, different at specific moments, the types of routes run and when they were run differed and it was tailor made for joe and played to our offensive strengths which is not something we've been doing all year really at all

 

[29BmoreBird22]

there's no part of my arguments above that suggests that joe didnt execute - joe had the best game ive seen from him since 2014 no doubt in my mind - the way he moved in the pocket, used his feet in the pocket, read the field, threw with anticipation and led his receivers was like having an entirely new qb all of a sudden

and N.B. that chart is just the ball through the air rather than the finishing result of the gain on a pass (posted it because it was interesting rather than anything to do with my argument above it)

my point lies more in the sense that i disagree that the playcalling wasnt fundamentally different and that the different playcalling had a significant contribution in allowing joe to be better and execute - it was more diverse, different at specific moments, the types of routes run and when they were run differed and it was tailor made for joe and played to our offensive strengths which is not something we've been doing all year really at all

I mean, go look at the interception Joe had against the Packers. Alex Collins splits out wide with Danny Woodhead in the backfield and motions in for a fake jet sweep as Woodhead breaks out on a wheel route.

It isn't some new or magical play call to have two backs on the field or one split out wide.

The play calling being more diverse is simply an illusion of the offense actually executing the play that was called for once rather than anything different really being called, sans a little more play action.

I was also talking about ball in the air, too, by the way.

I mean, really, the biggest difference is Joe balled out today for the first time in many weeks. Joe had an exceptional game and it should be no coincidence that the offense as a whole looked better.

 

[rossihunter2]

I mean, go look at the interception Joe had against the Packers. Alex Collins splits out wide with Danny Woodhead in the backfield and motions in for a fake jet sweep as Woodhead breaks out on a wheel route.

It isn't some new or magical play call to have two backs on the field or one split out wide.

The play calling being more diverse is simply an illusion of the offense actually executing the play that was called for once rather than anything different really being called, sans a little more play action.

I was also talking about ball in the air, too, by the way.

I mean, really, the biggest difference is Joe balled out today for the first time in many weeks. Joe had an exceptional game and it should be no coincidence that the offense as a whole looked better.

again im not sure i agree with that sentiment - we have done all the things i mentioned above, yes, but we have not done them consistently or in unpredictable circumstances - we have used play fakes and play action a couple of times a game but we used it more in this game, we split woodhead out wide more than once - im not saying its anything revolutionary or "magical" to do that with a back - but if you have a good route running back it's an overpowered matchup vs a linebacker split wide or in the slot and we havent used it enough as an alignment - even if the ball isnt going to woodhead it opens up space in the running game or in the passing game because it draws attention - so its not just the diversity of design but also the volume of those calls that i feel affected the gameplan in a way that made execution that much easier

that said i agree that the biggest difference is that joe played well - but arguing about the things that, at least partially, allowed it to happen

 

[29BmoreBird22]

again im not sure i agree with that sentiment - we have done all the things i mentioned above, yes, but we have not done them consistently or in unpredictable circumstances - we have used play fakes and play action a couple of times a game but we used it more in this game, we split woodhead out wide more than once - im not saying its anything revolutionary or "magical" to do that with a back - but if you have a good route running back it's an overpowered matchup vs a linebacker split wide or in the slot and we havent used it enough as an alignment - even if the ball isnt going to woodhead it opens up space in the running game or in the passing game because it draws attention - so its not just the diversity of design but also the volume of those calls that i feel affected the gameplan in a way that made execution that much easier

that said i agree that the biggest difference is that joe played well - but arguing about the things that, at least partially, allowed it to happen

I'm willing to bet a lot of money that these alignments and plays were called a fair amount during the season and you only now notice because they work.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'm willing to bet a lot of money that these alignments and plays were called a fair amount during the season and you only now notice because they work.

if you read my posts in the gameday threads you'll see that especially in terms of play fakes im hot on noticing them - it was a running thread on gameday threads with myself and @Jacquouille that even after the bye we'd run 1 play action at the beginning of each half and then seem to forget it was part of our playbook

 

[29BmoreBird22]

if you read my posts in the gameday threads you'll see that especially in terms of play fakes im hot on noticing them - it was a running thread on gameday threads with myself and @Jacquouille that even after the bye we'd run 1 play action at the beginning of each half and then seem to forget it was part of our playbook

I know you like to point it out, but that doesn't mean you picked up on every alignment and play call for the entirety of the season.

 

[rossihunter2]

I know you like to point it out, but that doesn't mean you picked up on every alignment and play call for the entirety of the season.

that's true of course - but its not like i only notice it on replay - im watching it live and see 'oh here's a play fake' and then my next thought is 'havent seen one of them for a while' and then my next thought is 'why dont we do this more?'

and it's not like the outcome of a play makes me less aware of its existence - i can immediately think of 1 bootleg that didnt go as planned from this week but that doesnt mean i didnt notice it because it was unsuccessful...

even if i havent been noticing it earlier in the season, ive always been conscious of playcalls like that and ive been especially conscious of it since the bye week because i hoped and expected us to use it more given our success on playaction calls opening up some intermediate passing lanes earlier in the year - and then we'd still not use it more... until this week

 

[JAAM]

So Harbs is concerned about Alex Collins and his migraines (understandably so). This is a little worrisome and I hope we get it figured out. I don’t want to decrease his workload at all.