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Rugby Fans?

Sledge Hammer

Sledge Hammer

Pro Bowler
Any Rugby fans here? I have made an assertive effort and I actually really like it. My gf lived in Serbia til she was 12. I learned rugby while she learned football as a tradeoff but once you learn it you will like it. I'm actually liking it and learning the best players. We are genuinely impressed Eluemunor runs around like that at near 340lbs.
 
Sledge Hammer said:
Any Rugby fans here? I have made an assertive effort and I actually really like it. My gf lived in Serbia til she was 12. I learned rugby while she learned football as a tradeoff but once you learn it you will like it. I'm actually liking it and learning the best players. We are genuinely impressed Eluemunor runs around like that at near 340lbs.
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As an australian, rugby league is pretty much our national sport, rugby union is probably our 4th most popular but yeah I like and have played both quite a bit. Very entertaining and tough game.
 
Tank said:
Haloti Ngata played rugby.

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Helped him run down mike Vick. His love of rugby definitely contributed to his football success. Made him a faster better athlete for his size with very rare endurance. Eluemunor is about Ngata's size. Ngata a touch bigger longer.
 
Inqui said:
It's a shame he isn't taking over as HC proper. There could have been an interesting battle between the new-look Wellington (assuming they keep it together - Aumua looks the goods and I'm a fan of Fidow too), Canterbury and Auckland for domestic honours.
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I don't think Henry wants HC responsibilities any longer. Retirement on Waiheke and a little bit of consulting sounds like a winning deal.
Heck, I'd do it tomorrow if I could (accent much more on Waiheke than consulting).
 
Inqui said:
It's a shame he isn't taking over as HC proper. There could have been an interesting battle between the new-look Wellington (assuming they keep it together - Aumua looks the goods and I'm a fan of Fidow too), Canterbury and Auckland for domestic honours.
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allblackraven said:
I don't think Henry wants HC responsibilities any longer. Retirement on Waiheke and a little bit of consulting sounds like a winning deal.
Heck, I'd do it tomorrow if I could (accent much more on Waiheke than consulting).
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i dont think there's any way he could have taken on HC responsibilities given that he's been out of the coaching game for like 4 years now...
 
what are you're guys thoughts on lima sopoaga leaving the highlanders and heading to wasps (and giving up his probable all black world cup place)?
 
rossihunter2 said:
i dont think there's any way he could have taken on HC responsibilities given that he's been out of the coaching game for like 4 years now...
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The Mitre 10 cup (or whatever it's called this year) is really just a development league so I imagine he'd be fine if he wanted to take on the role full-time, and his main strength as a coach has always been his man management - which I feel wouldn't have diminished. But I imagine he won't be complaining about a semi-retirement gig, especially at that level. He couldn't go straight into the All Blacks or even the Blues, but Auckland would be manageable.

rossihunter2 said:
what are you're guys thoughts on lima sopoaga leaving the highlanders and heading to wasps (and giving up his probable all black world cup place)?
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In a way it reminds me of Luke McAllister leaving after 2003. Every player here is acutely aware of the career decision between trying to play for the ABs and cashing in in Europe or Japan, and more second-tier All Blacks seem to be going after the money at an earlier stage in their careers. He obviously isn't getting past Beauden Barrett any time soon, but depth always seems to be a question mark and even more so with Aaron Cruden doing the same thing. I'd imagine the selectors pull out the stops to see what they have with the younger guys like Mo'unga and Perofeta ahead of the World Cup.

But the day the dam breaks and next-gen stars start getting picked up at a young age is when domestic and franchise rugby in the southern hemisphere is up shit creek.
 
Inqui said:
The Mitre 10 cup (or whatever it's called this year) is really just a development league so I imagine he'd be fine if he wanted to take on the role full-time, and his main strength as a coach has always been his man management - which I feel wouldn't have diminished. But I imagine he won't be complaining about a semi-retirement gig, especially at that level. He couldn't go straight into the All Blacks or even the Blues, but Auckland would be manageable.


In a way it reminds me of Luke McAllister leaving after 2003. Every player here is acutely aware of the career decision between trying to play for the ABs and cashing in in Europe or Japan, and more second-tier All Blacks seem to be going after the money at an earlier stage in their careers. He obviously isn't getting past Beauden Barrett any time soon, but depth always seems to be a question mark and even more so with Aaron Cruden doing the same thing. I'd imagine the selectors pull out the stops to see what they have with the younger guys like Mo'unga and Perofeta ahead of the World Cup.

But the day the dam breaks and next-gen stars start getting picked up at a young age is when domestic and franchise rugby in the southern hemisphere is up shit creek.
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that's a possibility but until northern hemisphere coaching and style of rugby catches up to the all-blacks/new zealand franchises in super rugby i think there will always be a pull to staying in new zealand

as a wasps fan i have to say that im absolutely elated that sopoaga's coming, even if it does mean the end of danny cipriani's time at the club
sopoaga and jimmy gopperth could be a lethal 10-12 pairing especially with elliot daly outside them (when he's back from injury)

i do understand why international teams in lots of cases only pick from players playing at home but it does often make me wonder what could have been both at club and international level - i would have loved to see stefon armitage and nick abendanon play for england again and id have loved to have curtley beale come and stay in the northern hemisphere too

what's crazy though is there is a championship (2nd division) team called bristol that has just signed charles piutau to the largest contract in the world - the fact that he and his brother are gonna be playing together again in the premiership next year for a newly promoted side is both ridiculous and tantalising but it's a shame that charles piutau wont be available for the all blacks because he's a stunning player at full back/outside centre
 
rossihunter2 said:
that's a possibility but until northern hemisphere coaching and style of rugby catches up to the all-blacks/new zealand franchises in super rugby i think there will always be a pull to staying in new zealand

as a wasps fan i have to say that im absolutely elated that sopoaga's coming, even if it does mean the end of danny cipriani's time at the club
sopoaga and jimmy gopperth could be a lethal 10-12 pairing especially with elliot daly outside them (when he's back from injury)

i do understand why international teams in lots of cases only pick from players playing at home but it does often make me wonder what could have been both at club and international level - i would have loved to see stefon armitage and nick abendanon play for england again and id have loved to have curtley beale come and stay in the northern hemisphere too

what's crazy though is there is a championship (2nd division) team called bristol that has just signed charles piutau to the largest contract in the world - the fact that he and his brother are gonna be playing together again in the premiership next year for a newly promoted side is both ridiculous and tantalising but it's a shame that charles piutau wont be available for the all blacks because he's a stunning player at full back/outside centre
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SANZAAR is kind of a basket-case of unique problems, from South Africa having the internal politicking but the most financial clout, Australia being more stable but having to compete with about three other major sports (sidebar: they should have merged the Rebels and Brumbies and kept the Force, but I digress) and NZ having stability and a ton of talent but an absolutely miniscule market (with a total population of 5 million or so we're lucky to compete with some European cities, much less entire leagues and broadcast deals). But the day the unions let overseas players compete internationally is the day Super Rugby pretty much dies completely and the rugby scene emulates football with all the money and talent being in the clubs - which leaves everyone over here high and dry.

I get the development angle (and the domestic cup here, despite being a financial wasteland, is probably the best development league in the world for both players and coaches) but I think that leaves Super Rugby facing a best-case scenario of becoming like what the NCAA is for the NFL and NBA but without the glamour. A situation where players slug it out for a few years in the south to learn the craft and get drafted by European clubs could be kinda cool if everyone got into it but I think the north would be getting the better end of that deal. Sadly I can't envision anyone in Europe getting up at 2am to watch potential draft prospects and I can't see people here giving a fig about players that everyone knows will head overseas for their best years.

With that said, you're getting a good player in Sopoaga and with the (admittedly little) I've seen of European rugby a lot of southern hemisphere stars seem to do quite well over there. I remember going to the Saracens-Tigers semi-final a couple of years ago and it was kinda cool to see Michael Fitzgerald being a fairly big part of Leicester's pack - he was one of the veteran guys who always stuck around for the union where I'm from (which is one of the smallest in the professional game here but still). And I remember being amazed by how long guys like Rupeni and Doug Howlett were able to keep playing at a high level for their clubs. Forget Kurtley Beale, you want to imagine how guys like Israel Folau or the Savea brothers make their side look.

In the future I think Asia could be the interesting x-factor in how the game ends up looking, with rugby on the rise in a lot of places and some broadcast deals on the brink of expiring. What I'd be interested in is the viability of cutting South Africa and Argentina loose domestically (albeit sticking with the Rugby Championship) and focusing on consolidating with Australia and Japan. The ARU did some extensive auditing a few years ago and that seemed to be the model recommended to them. Then see what kind of Champions League-esque format can be worked out in the global calendar. See if you can't end up with a truly global game from both a club and international perspective.
 
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rossihunter2 said:
i dont think there's any way he could have taken on HC responsibilities given that he's been out of the coaching game for like 4 years now...
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Inqui said:
The Mitre 10 cup (or whatever it's called this year) is really just a development league so I imagine he'd be fine if he wanted to take on the role full-time, and his main strength as a coach has always been his man management - which I feel wouldn't have diminished. But I imagine he won't be complaining about a semi-retirement gig, especially at that level. He couldn't go straight into the All Blacks or even the Blues, but Auckland would be manageable.
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I'm pretty sure he could take any side, including test teams, without any issues. Coaches like Henry are never out of it.
 
rossihunter2 said:
what's crazy though is there is a championship (2nd division) team called bristol that has just signed charles piutau to the largest contract in the world - the fact that he and his brother are gonna be playing together again in the premiership next year for a newly promoted side is both ridiculous and tantalising but it's a shame that charles piutau wont be available for the all blacks because he's a stunning player at full back/outside centre
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I'm glad Charlie is doing great financially. He's been severely undervalued by NZRU / the All Blacks.
 
Inqui said:
SANZAAR is kind of a basket-case of unique problems, from South Africa having the internal politicking but the most financial clout, Australia being more stable but having to compete with about three other major sports (sidebar: they should have merged the Rebels and Brumbies and kept the Force, but I digress) and NZ having stability and a ton of talent but an absolutely miniscule market (with a total population of 5 million or so we're lucky to compete with some European cities, much less entire leagues and broadcast deals). But the day the unions let overseas players compete internationally is the day Super Rugby pretty much dies completely and the rugby scene emulates football with all the money and talent being in the clubs - which leaves everyone over here high and dry.

I get the development angle (and the domestic cup here, despite being a financial wasteland, is probably the best development league in the world for both players and coaches) but I think that leaves Super Rugby facing a best-case scenario of becoming like what the NCAA is for the NFL and NBA but without the glamour. A situation where players slug it out for a few years in the south to learn the craft and get drafted by European clubs could be kinda cool if everyone got into it but I think the north would be getting the better end of that deal. Sadly I can't envision anyone in Europe getting up at 2am to watch potential draft prospects and I can't see people here giving a fig about players that everyone knows will head overseas for their best years.

With that said, you're getting a good player in Sopoaga and with the (admittedly little) I've seen of European rugby a lot of southern hemisphere stars seem to do quite well over there. I remember going to the Saracens-Tigers semi-final a couple of years ago and it was kinda cool to see Michael Fitzgerald being a fairly big part of Leicester's pack - he was one of the veteran guys who always stuck around for the union where I'm from (which is one of the smallest in the professional game here but still). And I remember being amazed by how long guys like Rupeni and Doug Howlett were able to keep playing at a high level for their clubs. Forget Kurtley Beale, you want to imagine how guys like Israel Folau or the Savea brothers make their side look.

In the future I think Asia could be the interesting x-factor in how the game ends up looking, with rugby on the rise in a lot of places and some broadcast deals on the brink of expiring. What I'd be interested in is the viability of cutting South Africa and Argentina loose domestically (albeit sticking with the Rugby Championship) and focusing on consolidating with Australia and Japan. The ARU did some extensive auditing a few years ago and that seemed to be the model recommended to them. Then see what kind of Champions League-esque format can be worked out in the global calendar.
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yeah i think one of the best things about rugby union is that the international game is still the pinnacle of the sport and that only happens if the souther hemisphere sides are still quality outfits and that only happens if money isn't the be-all and end-all of club rugby

i would be disgusted with world rugby if they allowed the all blacks to wilt (either stylistically or qualitatively)

i think the thing with southern hemisphere players coming over and doing well is a lot down to the fact that only the better (promising) guys are gonna get deals to play in france or the british isles unless they move full-time

we already have a problem with the french league and the pacific island farming going on there and it's killing the french national team (among other things)

ill admit its quite fun getting antipodean or south african players at the end of their careers coming over for a final swansong - it was an absolute pleasure watching george smith come in and play first receiver in some phases in the premiership and getting guys like burger and dan carter among others

and im lucky that im a wasps fan because stylistically they play attractive rugby and after nearly going bankrupt about 8 years ago they've financially consolidated and now have become one of the most attractive propositions for big-money signings from the southern hemisphere because they have loads of money to spend and also play an attacking, open, attractive style - wasps often play in a way that is rarely seen in the northern hemisphere (but you see similar stuff in super rugby more often)
 
allblackraven said:
I'm glad Charlie is doing great financially. He's been severely undervalued by NZRU / the All Blacks.
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he's unbelievable to watch - im glad he's being paid but i almost wish he was surrounded by slightly better talent because he's a bona fide superstar with ball in hand
 
rossihunter2 said:
yeah i think one of the best things about rugby union is that the international game is still the pinnacle of the sport and that only happens if the souther hemisphere sides are still quality outfits and that only happens if money isn't the be-all and end-all of club rugby

i would be disgusted with world rugby if they allowed the all blacks to wilt (either stylistically or qualitatively)

i think the thing with southern hemisphere players coming over and doing well is a lot down to the fact that only the better (promising) guys are gonna get deals to play in france or the british isles unless they move full-time

we already have a problem with the french league and the pacific island farming going on there and it's killing the french national team (among other things)

ill admit its quite fun getting antipodean or south african players at the end of their careers coming over for a final swansong - it was an absolute pleasure watching george smith come in and play first receiver in some phases in the premiership and getting guys like burger and dan carter among others

and im lucky that im a wasps fan because stylistically they play attractive rugby and after nearly going bankrupt about 8 years ago they've financially consolidated and now have become one of the most attractive propositions for big-money signings from the southern hemisphere because they have loads of money to spend and also play an attacking, open, attractive style - wasps often play in a way that is rarely seen in the northern hemisphere (but you see similar stuff in super rugby more often)
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If you like attractive rugby, you'd probably enjoy the Mitre 10 Cup here. It's a step down from Super Rugby and the crowds tend to hover at 5000 or so, but there's a lot of raw talent on display and a lot of young guys get to show what they're capable of against established talent. Nehe Milner-Skudder lit things up for my boys Manawatu back in 2011 and guys like Asafo Aumua (remember that name: if you thought Dane Coles was good this guy's going to be something else) and Will Jordan have emerged most recently. I know Sky Sports UK has broadcasting rights because that seems to be where I catch most of my *ahem* streaming.

I love international rugby being the pinnacle (the England-ABs Test this year should be interesting with what Eddie Jones has done) and it's a shame about the French team and the island nations - though with the islands a lot of problems start with their union structures. Thankfully the All Blacks are a pretty big bargaining chip for keeping all facets of the game strong in the southern hemisphere, and in the bigger picture it's probably better for the northern clubs to mostly get players once they've already become household names and developed all the way. I've been following Sopoaga and Cruden since they were teenagers and they've both come a long way since then, but I'm not sure they reach those pinnacles without the incentive of playing the international game and competing with other obscenely talented players their own age.
 
Inqui said:
If you like attractive rugby, you'd probably enjoy the Mitre 10 Cup here. It's a step down from Super Rugby and the crowds tend to hover at 5000 or so, but there's a lot of raw talent on display and a lot of young guys get to show what they're capable of against established talent. Nehe Milner-Skudder lit things up for my boys Manawatu back in 2011 and guys like Asafo Aumua (remember that name: if you thought Dane Coles was good this guy's going to be something else) and Will Jordan have emerged most recently. I know Sky Sports UK has broadcasting rights because that seems to be where I catch most of my *ahem* streaming.

I love international rugby being the pinnacle (the England-ABs Test this year should be interesting with what Eddie Jones has done) and it's a shame about the French team and the island nations - though with the islands a lot of problems start with their union structures. Thankfully the All Blacks are a pretty big bargaining chip for keeping all facets of the game strong in the southern hemisphere, and in the bigger picture it's probably better for the northern clubs to mostly get players once they've already become household names and developed all the way. I've been following Sopoaga and Cruden since they were teenagers and they've both come a long way since then, but I'm not sure they reach those pinnacles without the incentive of playing the international game and competing with other obscenely talented players their own age.
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competition is king - it's why to us on this side of the world it always seems like the all blacks and wallabies have a production line of back row when the number 2 team in the world ends up playing 2nd rows in the back row a lot - the english production line is seemingly at lock and it's ridiculous - we have legitimate world-beaters struggling to get in the 23 a lot of the time: itoje, lawes, kruis, launchbury are all world class players and yet the only way to get them on the pitch is to lose a blindside flanker (but that's not really that big of a deal because we dont have any openside flankers so we essentially end up with a blindside and an even blinder blindside and a large ball carrier at 8)
 
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