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Training Camp

rossihunter2 said:
ok im sorry sami, you may have hated the move and you are welcome to that opinion but now with regards to b will's explosiveness you are either blind or just plain wrong - brandon williams is, for a man that big, more explosive than most if not all defensive tackles in the league - he may not be as good a pass rusher as others in the league but he is incredibly explosive, athletic and surprisingly agile and well-balanced for a man as strong and large as he is and yet despite the lack of pass rush you could easily say he's a top 10 defensive lineman in the league including 3-4 defensive ends like watt and clowney etc. which is a testament to his effectiveness and to be that dominant and that effective you just are explosive or you wouldnt be as good as williams is

it doesnt sound spectacular but brandon williams is a nose tackle with the body of a 1tech and the quickness and second-effort moves of a 3tech which is incredibly difficult to block in both the run and pass game no matter the scheme / front you put him in
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If he were that explosive ( with his strength) he would have more than 4 career sacks since 2013
 
Sami84 said:
If he were that explosive ( with his strength) he would have more than 4 career sacks since 2013
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but he isnt on the field as often on passing downs, something which i expect to change - and a lot of the time he gets doubled or even tripled especially in nickel packages where he and pierce are the only linemen with two edge lbs
 
rossihunter2 said:
but he isnt on the field as often on passing downs, something which i expect to change - and a lot of the time he gets doubled or even tripled especially in nickel packages where he and pierce are the only linemen with two edge lbs
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I'll believe it when I see it.A dominant player is disruptive in any scheme on passing downs. I've yet to see B.Will obliterate 1 double team and get to the QB.
 
Sami84 said:
I'll believe it when I see it.A dominant player is disruptive in any scheme on passing downs. I've yet to see B.Will obliterate 1 double team and get to the QB.
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its almost like you refuse to see that the running game is also important...
 
Sami84 said:
Sure it is but to have a guy who can rush from the middle of the inside line is far more valuable.
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It really isn't. If you have a guy who just denies runs up the middle, it literally helps every facet of the defense and helps force those 3rd and longs. What he did is why the Ravens were so good at forcing 3 and outs.
 
Sorry if I'm a negative Nancy but I feel like this is 2015 all over again. Difference being that we have a ton of young talent compared to 2 years ago. But I don't really see us going anywhere. A winning record would already have me satisfied.
 
In 2015 the Bengals were not awful and the schedule the Ravens played was overall FAR harder. Yes you are being negative and its a pretty standard thing to see this time of year.
 
rossihunter2 said:
but he isnt on the field as often on passing downs, something which i expect to change - and a lot of the time he gets doubled or even tripled especially in nickel packages where he and pierce are the only linemen with two edge lbs
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I haven't seen him triple teamed in Nickel packages. That's not a knock on Williams by any means given the self-defeating nature of triple teaming in such scenarios. Unless it's a three man rush, given that it's 4v5, offensively, you're essentially choosing to allow one of the rushers an unblocked path in order to send a triple the DT instead of doubling them. It's an unheard of tactic against even the biggest game-wreckers. Looking back at the tape, using the Eagles game as an example where Williams saw the highest amount of passing snaps on the season, Williams was mostly single-blocked. He managed to come away with three pressures, one against Stefen Wisniewski, one against Brandon Brooks, two rock solid plays to his credit. The third was against an inside double and he was pushed from behind by a looping Terrell Suggs and then Timmy Jernigan. That being said, even of the double teams, roughly two were preemptive. Most of the others were technicalities where he was stunted by a single lineman and an adjacent one came in at his side after looking for a defender to block and coming up empty. Truth be told, it isn't a surprise given that Williams wasn't consistently notching pressures. It's a difficult task to ask of your NT. We saw the exact same scenario with Jonathan Hankins, who was also shifted from NT to both 3T spots after the arrival of Damon Harrison. In turn, Hankins struggled mightily after being far more effective as a rusher in previous seasons. And that's because facing a center at the nose and taking on guards take significantly different approaches. The guards move further back in their drops by comparison, getting under their pads immediately off the snap isn't as simple, and neither Williams nor Hankins attempted an array of moves. Most of the time, they came in dead center with a bull rush, and that can certainly be effective for players of their upper body strength, but it was also largely predictable. It's partly why Williams came away with the 6th least disruptions among all interior linemen with 16 in 300 snaps. Do I believe that he can improve in this area? Of course. It's a tough transition and the fact that he's focused on improving in this area is an obvious plus. But it's hard to buy into the idea that he's been a dominant interior pass rusher to date. It's arguably been his biggest hurdle thus far. In either case, at least he'll remain an absolute monster in the running game.
 
Truth said:
I haven't seen him triple teamed in Nickel packages. That's not a knock on Williams by any means given the self-defeating nature of triple teaming in such scenarios. Unless it's a three man rush, given that it's 4v5, offensively, you're essentially choosing to allow one of the rushers an unblocked path in order to send a triple the DT instead of doubling them. It's an unheard of tactic against even the biggest game-wreckers. Looking back at the tape, using the Eagles game as an example where Williams saw the highest amount of passing snaps on the season, Williams was mostly single-blocked. He managed to come away with three pressures, one against Stefen Wisniewski, one against Brandon Brooks, two rock solid plays to his credit. The third was against an inside double and he was pushed from behind by a looping Terrell Suggs and then Timmy Jernigan. That being said, even of the double teams, roughly two were preemptive. Most of the others were technicalities where he was stunted by a single lineman and an adjacent one came in at his side after looking for a defender to block and coming up empty. Truth be told, it isn't a surprise given that Williams wasn't consistently notching pressures. It's a difficult task to ask of your NT. We saw the exact same scenario with Jonathan Hankins, who was also shifted from NT to both 3T spots after the arrival of Damon Harrison. In turn, Hankins struggled mightily after being far more effective as a rusher in previous seasons. And that's because facing a center at the nose and taking on guards take significantly different approaches. The guards move further back in their drops by comparison, getting under their pads immediately off the snap isn't as simple, and neither Williams nor Hankins attempted an array of moves. Most of the time, they came in dead center with a bull rush, and that can certainly be effective for players of their upper body strength, but it was also largely predictable. It's partly why Williams came away with the 6th least disruptions among all interior linemen with 16 in 300 snaps. Do I believe that he can improve in this area? Of course. It's a tough transition and the fact that he's focused on improving in this area is an obvious plus. But it's hard to buy into the idea that he's been a dominant interior pass rusher to date. It's arguably been his biggest hurdle thus far. In either case, at least he'll remain an absolute monster in the running game.
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Sorry, I meant to be more specific - the "dominant" was in reference to first and second downs where teams would go three wide and try to run it - we would defend the run with just pierce and Williams in the box and a nickel defence and flat out dominated on those two downs in that package with Williams at 3tech and pierce at nose
 
rossihunter2 said:
Sorry, I meant to be more specific - the "dominant" was in reference to first and second downs where teams would go three wide and try to run it - we would defend the run with just pierce and Williams in the box and a nickel defence and flat out dominated on those two downs in that package with Williams at 3tech and pierce at nose
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Ah, my mistake. Definitely dominant in the running game. And I'm with you, it's a serious plus to have an NT/DT who takes up enough space to make the Nickel a viable option regardless of whether the team is running or passing.
 
If you're not being asked to rush the passer, you won't. You "do your job" in the defense or you're leaving people out to there and risking a break down.
 
redrum52 said:
If you're not being asked to rush the passer, you won't. You "do your job" in the defense or you're leaving people out to there and risking a break down.
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Yup. It is not every man for himself and every man charge the QB. While that would be fun to watch it would get messy very quickly.
 
Not sure what's going on but Yanda walked off the field and into the locker room with someone from the Ravens staff. He didn't appear to be hurt. Hopefully he just had to take a crap or something lol
 
Jacquouille said:
Sorry if I'm a negative Nancy but I feel like this is 2015 all over again. Difference being that we have a ton of young talent compared to 2 years ago. But I don't really see us going anywhere. A winning record would already have me satisfied.
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If we have 17 more players on IR then I would agree. Even the 2015 season 9 of the 11 losses were by 1 score or less with like 15 starters on IR by the end of the season.

Until then I think you need to just wait and see because I do think the defense will be fantastic this season and them alone will make this season worth watching. I think this team has a lot more talent than the 2013 squad and that offense was attrocious with a better defense.
 
Sooky said:
If we have 17 more players on IR then I would agree. Even the 2015 season 9 of the 11 losses were by 1 score or less with like 15 starters on IR by the end of the season.

Until then I think you need to just wait and see because I do think the defense will be fantastic this season and them alone will make this season worth watching. I think this team has a lot more talent than the 2013 squad and that offense was attrocious with a better defense.
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i just hope that watching this secondary this year does not become a case of "what if" with tavon and potentially canady out for the year as well as the general offensive woes that i fully expect given how they are dropping like flies and werent generally expected to be good to start with
 
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