Signings, Cuts, Trades

[rmcjacket23]

Didn't Revis take a bunch of 1 year deals with teams? I remember him being a glorified "merc" at the CB position after he left the Jets lol

Actually, he pretty much never did (technically)

He had a long list of very "odd" contracts:

1. After his rookie deal, he signs a 4 year, $46M deal with the Jets in 2010. Pretty standard.
2. During the 2012 season, he tears his ACL and misses pretty much the whole year.
3. The following offseason he was traded to Tampa Bay. In Tampa, he signed a 6 year, $96M contract... with ZERO money guaranteed.
4. Tampa cuts him after one season, and he signed a two year contract in 2014 with the Patriots, which included a team option for 2015.
5. Patriots decline his option prior to the start of the 2015 season, and he then returns to the Jets on a 5 year, $70M deal in 2015.
6. He plays two years with the Jets, then is cut prior to the 2017 season.
7. Signs a two year contract with the Chiefs in November 2017, plays about a half a season, then is cut. Retired less than 12 months later.

So...

2010 to 2012 he made about $40.5M for three years with the Jets (missed almost a whole season with injury)
He got paid $16M for one year in Tampa, of which his original contract was for $96M
He got paid $12M for one year in NE, of which his option-based contract would have paid him $32M for two years.
He got paid $38.7M for three years with the Jets, of which his total contract was scheduled to be $70M.

 

[rossihunter2]

I mean... I think we're going to figure this out pretty soon. If Arizona redoes his deal, or extends him even further, then you pretty much know the trade demand was real. Arizona has literally no incentive whatsoever to sign him to an extension... they get him for WELL below market value right now, owe him no guaranteed money, and they control him for 3 years.

i think if him going was reliant on him agreeing to a new deal then the cardinals likely wouldnt have signed him without already having one in place - its been weeks now without a new deal

would suggest to me that signing a new deal wasnt as important as either 1) getting out of houston or 2) BOB getting DHop out of Houston

 

[rmcjacket23]

i think if him going was reliant on him agreeing to a new deal then the cardinals likely wouldnt have signed him without already having one in place - its been weeks now without a new deal

would suggest to me that signing a new deal wasnt as important as either 1) getting out of houston or 2) BOB getting DHop out of Houston

Maybe. But a trade isn't up to Hopkins either. Neither the Texans nor Cardinals need to meet his demands. Cardinals could take the stance the Texans should have taken, which is "you're on our team. You either play and get paid, or sit and don't".

Its clear the relationship was probably irrevocably broken. I think that's obvious. The question is whether that was largely a product of Hopkins' demands, or if he's using that as a catalyst to get out of there.

I mean I get O'Brien sucks, but the Texans are hardly a dumpster fire of an organization either. They're competitive every year, have a strong fan base, and clearly aren't that afraid to pay players. He's got a quality young QB to throw him the ball, and a lot of weapons to take the load off also.

Arizona's got a lot to like, and Hopkins will do well there. So either the relationship was horrible, or he just wanted like $5-7M more to try to salvage it. Maybe a combination of both.

 

[rossihunter2]

Maybe. But a trade isn't up to Hopkins either. Neither the Texans nor Cardinals need to meet his demands. Cardinals could take the stance the Texans should have taken, which is "you're on our team. You either play and get paid, or sit and don't".

Its clear the relationship was probably irrevocably broken. I think that's obvious. The question is whether that was largely a product of Hopkins' demands, or if he's using that as a catalyst to get out of there.

I mean I get O'Brien sucks, but the Texans are hardly a dumpster fire of an organization either. They're competitive every year, have a strong fan base, and clearly aren't that afraid to pay players. He's got a quality young QB to throw him the ball, and a lot of weapons to take the load off also.

Arizona's got a lot to like, and Hopkins will do well there. So either the relationship was horrible, or he just wanted like $5-7M more to try to salvage it. Maybe a combination of both.

problem is the cardinals are giving up capital to get him so are likely only doing that trade if they know the player will play for them (normally that means a new contract basically in place before the trade even happens but here it hasnt seemed to do that)

 

[rmcjacket23]

problem is the cardinals are giving up capital to get him so are likely only doing that trade if they know the player will play for them (normally that means a new contract basically in place before the trade even happens but here it hasnt seemed to do that)

I mean lets face it... he's not going to literally sit out and not play. This isn't a RB who knows he can only get one more contract before the NFL spits him out.

A hold out for a player like Hopkins is largely just not showing up until like training camp or close to the preseason. And the way this offseason is shaping up, literally no player is going to be doing much of anything until July or August at the earliest anyway. So I think the Cardinals (and even the Texans) know there's literally risk of him actually not posting for games.

This would easily be the worst offseason in history to be staging any kind of "hold out" in my opinion. What are they going to miss out on... "virtual OTA's"? LOL.

 

[JAAM]

I wonder if EDC contacts the Jets again about Jamal Adams. He only carries a 3.5 million cap hit this season though I think the reason he’s still disgruntled is because he wants an extension. Could we even make an extension happen and still extend Marlon and Stanley? It seems unlikely but I salivate at the thought of him in the box and roaming the secondary for us.

 

[Adreme]

I wonder if EDC contacts the Jets again about Jamal Adams. He only carries a 3.5 million cap hit this season though I think the reason he’s still disgruntled is because he wants an extension. Could we even make an extension happen and still extend Marlon and Stanley? It seems unlikely but I salivate at the thought of him in the box and roaming the secondary for us.

I mean if it were just Marlon and Stanley sure, but its Marlon, Stanley, Andrews, Brown, who all are probably going to be getting top market deals for their respective positions.

 

[RavensMania]

I wonder if EDC contacts the Jets again about Jamal Adams. He only carries a 3.5 million cap hit this season though I think the reason he’s still disgruntled is because he wants an extension. Could we even make an extension happen and still extend Marlon and Stanley? It seems unlikely but I salivate at the thought of him in the box and roaming the secondary for us.

as much as having Adams on this team would be great, I'd rather keep the players we have on the team together when they are up for a new contract.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I wonder if EDC contacts the Jets again about Jamal Adams. He only carries a 3.5 million cap hit this season though I think the reason he’s still disgruntled is because he wants an extension. Could we even make an extension happen and still extend Marlon and Stanley? It seems unlikely but I salivate at the thought of him in the box and roaming the secondary for us.

We could certainly take him for this year no problem.

its the extension part, and specifically, the idea of paying two safeties top of the market deals at the same time. Like I guess we sort of did it with Jefferson and Thomas last year, but Jefferson was making like $8.5M a year. Adams is closer to double that most likely.

Realistically, Earl is here for two more years. I would imagine in 2022, when he's 33 and has a $17M cap hit, the Ravens may decide to part ways. If that's the case, Adams doesn't sound so bad, but again, you'd be committing something like $35M in cap space in like 2021 to the Safety position, which is a lot. Plus, I think they like Chuck Clark a lot.

If they were going to trade for Adams, my best guess it would be a mid-season acquisition in 2021. It would cost more, but again, I think you may only get two more years of Earl.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mean if it were just Marlon and Stanley sure, but its Marlon, Stanley, Andrews, Brown, who all are probably going to be getting top market deals for their respective positions.

True, but a couple things to consider...

1. I think Orlando Brown, unfortunately, is the type of player who plays 4 years here and then leaves, ala Ricky Wagner. He'll be up for a new deal in the general vicinity as Lamar will be (5th year option and tag looming around that timeframe), so I can't see the Ravens committing market value deals to two Tackles at the same time. I think the Ravens are well aware they'll be picking between the two, and Stanley is obviously going to win that choice.
Ravens have done very well at drafting and developing RTs in the mid to late rounds, and I think that'll be their strategy for as long as they're paying top dollar to a LT.
2. When guys like Andrews or Brown are up for extensions, there will be several high cap $ players who likely won't be on the team at that point.

So in a lot of ways, you can do one-for-one swaps on a lot of these guys and still come out in the same place from a cap perspective.

What we'll likely see is that within 3-4 years, the Ravens will have completely flipped their spending habits. They'll have a much bigger investment on the offensive side of the ball, and they won't have 4-5 defensive players all with $15-20M cap hits.

Who on the current defense is going to have a high price tag in even 3 years? Marlon and Peters probably? Maybe Judon if we extend him? We're not going to be paying Brandon Williams when he's 33-34. Campbell will be long since retired. Earl Thomas will likely be retired, or playing elsewhere in the twilights at that point.

 

[Charm City]

I wonder if EDC contacts the Jets again about Jamal Adams. He only carries a 3.5 million cap hit this season though I think the reason he’s still disgruntled is because he wants an extension. Could we even make an extension happen and still extend Marlon and Stanley? It seems unlikely but I salivate at the thought of him in the box and roaming the secondary for us.

Given that we just paid Clark I doubt we go after him, unless we plan on playing Dime a majority of our snaps and have one of them at ILB, which I know we do a lot of but we'd have to pretty much commit to that being the plan.

 

[Adreme]

True, but a couple things to consider...

1. I think Orlando Brown, unfortunately, is the type of player who plays 4 years here and then leaves, ala Ricky Wagner. He'll be up for a new deal in the general vicinity as Lamar will be (5th year option and tag looming around that timeframe), so I can't see the Ravens committing market value deals to two Tackles at the same time. I think the Ravens are well aware they'll be picking between the two, and Stanley is obviously going to win that choice.
Ravens have done very well at drafting and developing RTs in the mid to late rounds, and I think that'll be their strategy for as long as they're paying top dollar to a LT.
2. When guys like Andrews or Brown are up for extensions, there will be several high cap $ players who likely won't be on the team at that point.

So in a lot of ways, you can do one-for-one swaps on a lot of these guys and still come out in the same place from a cap perspective.

What we'll likely see is that within 3-4 years, the Ravens will have completely flipped their spending habits. They'll have a much bigger investment on the offensive side of the ball, and they won't have 4-5 defensive players all with $15-20M cap hits.

Who on the current defense is going to have a high price tag in even 3 years? Marlon and Peters probably? Maybe Judon if we extend him? We're not going to be paying Brandon Williams when he's 33-34. Campbell will be long since retired. Earl Thomas will likely be retired, or playing elsewhere in the twilights at that point.

I mean Andrews is going into year 3 of a 4 year deal and Thomas still has 3 more years left. The entire reason though that they went out and bought ET and Campbell is because of how important those positions are. So maybe they can strike gold and have 6 top 5 players all on rookie deals again, but this time at S and on the DLine, but that is tough to pull off and seems unlikely to happen again.

Campbell, ET, Williams, etc would all need to be replaced with someone and the market for those players is not going to go down, even if I think pass rushers make too much relative to the secondary.

 

[RavensMania]

True, but a couple things to consider...

1. I think Orlando Brown, unfortunately, is the type of player who plays 4 years here and then leaves, ala Ricky Wagner. He'll be up for a new deal in the general vicinity as Lamar will be (5th year option and tag looming around that timeframe), so I can't see the Ravens committing market value deals to two Tackles at the same time. I think the Ravens are well aware they'll be picking between the two, and Stanley is obviously going to win that choice.
Ravens have done very well at drafting and developing RTs in the mid to late rounds, and I think that'll be their strategy for as long as they're paying top dollar to a LT.
2. When guys like Andrews or Brown are up for extensions, there will be several high cap $ players who likely won't be on the team at that point.

So in a lot of ways, you can do one-for-one swaps on a lot of these guys and still come out in the same place from a cap perspective.

What we'll likely see is that within 3-4 years, the Ravens will have completely flipped their spending habits. They'll have a much bigger investment on the offensive side of the ball, and they won't have 4-5 defensive players all with $15-20M cap hits.

Who on the current defense is going to have a high price tag in even 3 years? Marlon and Peters probably? Maybe Judon if we extend him? We're not going to be paying Brandon Williams when he's 33-34. Campbell will be long since retired. Earl Thomas will likely be retired, or playing elsewhere in the twilights at that point.

Great point on everything you mention. I was even wondering if we'd consider extending Orlando Brown and agree with you that he most likely won't get extended. That being said, lets revisit the year we extended BWill and let Wagner walk. We had very little cap space and couldn't do both, plus we were changing our offensive scheme from a ZBS to more of a power gap scheme and that wasn't really Wagner's strength. Not saying he would have been terrible, but I don't think he would have been as good AND we most likely wouldn't have drafted Brown in 2018.

A number of factors will come into play, like the TV contracts and how much the cap will increase as well as our cap space. Most importantly we have to be able to fit the core, both on offense and defense under that cap and be able to draft replacements. I agree with you, we tend to be pretty good at drafting lineman and developing them.

 

[RavensMania]

I mean Andrews is going into year 3 of a 4 year deal and Thomas still has 3 more years left. The entire reason though that they went out and bought ET and Campbell is because of how important those positions are. So maybe they can strike gold and have 6 top 5 players all on rookie deals again, but this time at S and on the DLine, but that is tough to pull off and seems unlikely to happen again.

Campbell, ET, Williams, etc would all need to be replaced with someone and the market for those players is not going to go down, even if I think pass rushers make too much relative to the secondary.

Market won't go down but the actual cap is going to increase significantly with the new TV contracts. Of course salaries will follow, but not immediately. In EDC we trust.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mean Andrews is going into year 3 of a 4 year deal and Thomas still has 3 more years left. The entire reason though that they went out and bought ET and Campbell is because of how important those positions are. So maybe they can strike gold and have 6 top 5 players all on rookie deals again, but this time at S and on the DLine, but that is tough to pull off and seems unlikely to happen again.

Campbell, ET, Williams, etc would all need to be replaced with someone and the market for those players is not going to go down, even if I think pass rushers make too much relative to the secondary.

Yes, they will need to be replaced. And as you give long term deals to Peters, Marlon, Stanley, Andrews and especially Lamar (or at least he starts costing a heck of a lot more), those replacements will largely come from the draft in most cases.

Its the opposite of what we're seeing now. We're paying top dollar for defense in a lot of cases, because you have the #1 offense in the league and most of your players are on rookie deals. I'm suggesting that in the next 3-4 years, the reverse will happen. A lot of your defense will be on rookie deals, and many of your offensive players will be getting big money market deals.

I'm not saying that will universally be true, but I'll guarantee one thing... in the next year or two, we're going to be overhauling our Dline and our linebackers through the draft. We won't be spending $10M+ per year for multiple defensive lineman when you start paying the kind of money we'll have to pay to guys like Stanley and Marlon. We MAY continue to pay good money for Safeties, because it seems we value that position in this league a lot higher than most teams, and it seems we've almost given up on trying to find the next #20 in the draft.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Great point on everything you mention. I was even wondering if we'd consider extending Orlando Brown and agree with you that he most likely won't get extended. That being said, lets revisit the year we extended BWill and let Wagner walk. We had very little cap space and couldn't do both, plus we were changing our offensive scheme from a ZBS to more of a power gap scheme and that wasn't really Wagner's strength. Not saying he would have been terrible, but I don't think he would have been as good AND we most likely wouldn't have drafted Brown in 2018.

A number of factors will come into play, like the TV contracts and how much the cap will increase as well as our cap space. Most importantly we have to be able to fit the core, both on offense and defense under that cap and be able to draft replacements. I agree with you, we tend to be pretty good at drafting lineman and developing them.

If we extend Brown, its because we're going to continue to go cheap on the Interior, and it means we're essentially going "all-in" on being an offensive-minded team. It'll cost you probably $35M a year to keep both of those tackles. Even on a salary cap of like $225M, that's a big number.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Given that we just paid Clark I doubt we go after him, unless we plan on playing Dime a majority of our snaps and have one of them at ILB, which I know we do a lot of but we'd have to pretty much commit to that being the plan.

I mean in your Dime packages, you'd move Clark to ILB and then you'd have 4 corners (Jimmy, Tavon, Marlon, Marcus) and Earl as your 6 DBs technically.

I don't think you bring in Adams just to be a rotational player, or to change your package. You'd bring him in because you think Clark isn't good enough to handle the job full-time. So far, it clearly appears the Ravens are very confident in him.

I mean in the grand scheme of things... Clark is cheap, and him being here wouldn't stop you from getting Adams. Clark's cap hit is less than $5M for the next four years, and he has minimal dead money beyond 2021. Adams price tag, long-term, is likely the reason why he wouldn't be here.

That and the fact that the Ravens would seem unlikely to be giving up a high draft pick to get him, which is what I think it would cost.

The only way I see Adams in a Ravens uniform in the near future is if Earl or Clark has like an in-season ACL tear, and the Ravens make a Peters-like move and think they can win now by trading for a Safety. Even then, I think the price point will be too high.

 

[RavensMania]

If we extend Brown, its because we're going to continue to go cheap on the Interior, and it means we're essentially going "all-in" on being an offensive-minded team. It'll cost you probably $35M a year to keep both of those tackles. Even on a salary cap of like $225M, that's a big number.

I think it's going to be higher than 225 m, tbh....once the television contracts go into place.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think it's going to be higher than 225 m, tbh....once the television contracts go into place.

Maybe. Players salaries will only increase when that happens. The salary cap rising is sort of irrelevant mirage for the most part. Unless the entire league decides to collude and every team refuses to spend like $50M every year, a 15-20% rise in the salary cap will only lead to players costing 15-20% more. The teams that draft well will have an advantage over others, but that's also already true.

 

[RavensMania]

Maybe. Players salaries will only increase when that happens. The salary cap rising is sort of irrelevant mirage for the most part. Unless the entire league decides to collude and every team refuses to spend like $50M every year, a 15-20% rise in the salary cap will only lead to players costing 15-20% more. The teams that draft well will have an advantage over others, but that's also already true.

yes, players salaries will increase as well, but it will follow the increase. We should have a few good years of cap space even after LJ's new contract