Signings, Cuts, Trades

[ndub]

Aren't those guys you mentioned "Harbaugh's picks"? McSorley, Bredeson, Mason and Phillips are for sure.
Also I wish we only draft Michigan players if they're actually good and not because of our "intel" from Jim Harbaugh.

John makes some very piss poor decisions when it comes to players he wants to draft and coaching personnel.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Aren't those guys you mentioned "Harbaugh's picks"? McSorley, Bredeson, Mason and Phillips are for sure.
Also I wish we only draft Michigan players if they're actually good and not because of our "intel" from Jim Harbaugh.

I mean I'm sure there's collaboration, but I seriously doubt that EDC is picking guys he doesn't like just because John wants to.
Plus they've been pretty open about the fact that the last two years scouting for smaller schools became a lot tougher with travel bans in effect from Covid. It's not a surprise that a lot of teams targeted players from more premier programs.

Plus, McSorley was a fine pick when we made it. He's a backup QB. He just got beat out by Huntley as an UDFA. Phillips I'm not sure why you put in that group, since he went to Mississippi State.

 

[Deebo813]

Yeah I mean no 2nd rounder hurts. 3rd round is just bad, no denying that.
I don't hate Powers as a 4th rounder. Average Guard in this league, would be solid depth on a lot of teams.
Justice Hill as a 4th rounder just in hindsight seems like such a reach, and Iman Marshall just been injured a ton.
Once I get to round 5 I pretty much just assume most guys won't contribute much until proven otherwise.

But yeah, not a good draft at all.

I think if you look at the last three drafts, you could say we've been pretty strong on day 1 and generally OK on day 2. Not great, but OK.

It's day 3. It's sucked balls for the last three years.
Justice Hill
Ben Powers
Iman Marshall
Daylon Mack
Trace McSorley
Ben Bredeson
Broderick Washington
James Proche
Geno Stone
Tylan Wallace
Shaun Wade
Daelin Hayes
Ben Mason

We're not even getting much in the way of like quality role players. Stone, Proche, and I guess Powers would be the cream of the crop. A lot of these guys are gone or will be gone soon. I'm just not sure I see much in the way of "late bloomers" in this list either. Maybe we get a step up from like Wallace now that Watkins is gone, but I don't see it.

With a gigantic number of picks on day 3 this year, we'll need to do better for sure.

Like you go back the years before that:
Averett
Elliott
Bozeman
Chuck Clark
Tavon Young
Judon
ZaDarius
Boyle
Waller

Got all those guys in a four year period on day 3.

So basically we need ozzie to work his magic in those later rounds again

 

[purplepittabread88]

the only reason I feel we all bitch about the late round picks is because we have to hear about them so much. We constantly trade down missing out on good players for ammo that shoots blanks. same with the compensation, many always act like we are complete master minds for winning the comp game year after year. but when you don't end up with anything good, I personally get very tired of how much it is talked about. Eric really really has to nail this draft (esp late rounds) for the sake of the team and our sanity.

If we have a chance to trade a 4th to go and get Stingley but we pass on it to keep an extra guy who is cut by July... I swear

 

[ndub]

the only reason I feel we all bitch about the late round picks is because we have to hear about them so much. We constantly trade down missing out on good players for ammo that shoots blanks. same with the compensation, many always act like we are complete master minds for winning the comp game year after year. but when you don't end up with anything good, I personally get very tired of how much it is talked about. Eric really really has to nail this draft (esp late rounds) for the sake of the team and our sanity.

If we have a chance to trade a 4th to go and get Stingley but we pass on it to keep an extra guy who is cut by July... I swear

A-freaking-men. I couldn't care less about comp picks. I'd trade them all away for a sure bet player who will instantly improve this team.

 

[JAAM]

the only reason I feel we all bitch about the late round picks is because we have to hear about them so much. We constantly trade down missing out on good players for ammo that shoots blanks. same with the compensation, many always act like we are complete master minds for winning the comp game year after year. but when you don't end up with anything good, I personally get very tired of how much it is talked about. Eric really really has to nail this draft (esp late rounds) for the sake of the team and our sanity.

If we have a chance to trade a 4th to go and get Stingley but we pass on it to keep an extra guy who is cut by July... I swear

THIS!!! I'm getting tired of hoarding picks and having to cut bums or trade them to make room on the roster. This is why I love how the Rams operate and wish we did things similarly

 

[Sandtown]

Honestly I have no problem with The Ravens hoarding picks and sticking to their motto of drafting for depth in the later rounds. Some of their better players from Matt Judon, Pernell Mcphee, Tavon Young, Zadarius Smith,Nick Boyle, and more were not drafted in the first three rounds of the draft.

 

[Deebo813]

the only reason I feel we all bitch about the late round picks is because we have to hear about them so much. We constantly trade down missing out on good players for ammo that shoots blanks. same with the compensation, many always act like we are complete master minds for winning the comp game year after year. but when you don't end up with anything good, I personally get very tired of how much it is talked about. Eric really really has to nail this draft (esp late rounds) for the sake of the team and our sanity.

If we have a chance to trade a 4th to go and get Stingley but we pass on it to keep an extra guy who is cut by July... I swear

AMEN!!

 

[rmcjacket23]

the only reason I feel we all bitch about the late round picks is because we have to hear about them so much. We constantly trade down missing out on good players for ammo that shoots blanks. same with the compensation, many always act like we are complete master minds for winning the comp game year after year. but when you don't end up with anything good, I personally get very tired of how much it is talked about. Eric really really has to nail this draft (esp late rounds) for the sake of the team and our sanity.

If we have a chance to trade a 4th to go and get Stingley but we pass on it to keep an extra guy who is cut by July... I swear

Ehh, I don't think we really trade down nearly as much as people think. We may move up and down the board a little bit on day 3 (like plenty of teams do), but we really don't trade back in the first or even second rounds that often.

If I look back recently:
2021: after the Brown trade, which effectively moved us up AND acquired more picks, we stayed pat in Rounds 1-3. Any trades were pre-draft trades, including us giving up a pick for Yannick previously.
2020: stayed pat on day 1, traded a 2 and a 4 on day 2 for two 3rd rounders.
2019: stayed pat in round 1, didn't have a 2nd round pick (traded for Lamar prior year), and then we traded up in the 3rd round to draft Boykin (yikes)
2018: Certainly the wildest of 1st rounds. We traded back from 16 to 22, then back again from 22 to 25, to get Hurst, and then traded back up from the 2nd round to get Lamar. Ultimately would have been pretty hard to get Lamar if we hadn't traded back initially.
Now no 2nd round pick, and we ultimately traded back in the third round (twice) to get some more picks. We actually moved back from 65 to 86 and ended up with 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks.
At 86 we took Mark Andrews
2017: I don't note a single draft day trade until the 6th round.
2016: no trades in round 1, in round 2 we moved back from 36 to 42, picking up a 4th and 5th rounder.
The good: the 5th rounder ended up being Judon
The bad: we took Correa at 42, with some studs still on the board (Henry, Michael Thomas, Deion Jones, etc.) and Chris Jones and Xavien Howard were on the board for us at 36.

I can keep going further, but point being in the last several drafts, I'd argue we've been much more aggressive about coming UP in the draft for quality players than trading back. The only real trade back scenarios was in 2018, and that's kind of a wash for me.

Recently, we've had no issues giving up picks for players (Peters, Yannick) or moving up to get guys we want (Lamar).

In terms of comp picks, I tend to agree Ravens overvalue them, however, the context of the comp picks is also in the context of the lack of salary cap space available to go and acquire better players in FA.

 

[gtalk12]

Ehh, I don't think we really trade down nearly as much as people think. We may move up and down the board a little bit on day 3 (like plenty of teams do), but we really don't trade back in the first or even second rounds that often.

If I look back recently:
2021: after the Brown trade, which effectively moved us up AND acquired more picks, we stayed pat in Rounds 1-3. Any trades were pre-draft trades, including us giving up a pick for Yannick previously.
2020: stayed pat on day 1, traded a 2 and a 4 on day 2 for two 3rd rounders.
2019: stayed pat in round 1, didn't have a 2nd round pick (traded for Lamar prior year), and then we traded up in the 3rd round to draft Boykin (yikes)
2018: Certainly the wildest of 1st rounds. We traded back from 16 to 22, then back again from 22 to 25, to get Hurst, and then traded back up from the 2nd round to get Lamar. Ultimately would have been pretty hard to get Lamar if we hadn't traded back initially.
Now no 2nd round pick, and we ultimately traded back in the third round (twice) to get some more picks. We actually moved back from 65 to 86 and ended up with 4th, 5th, and 6th round picks.
At 86 we took Mark Andrews
2017: I don't note a single draft day trade until the 6th round.
2016: no trades in round 1, in round 2 we moved back from 36 to 42, picking up a 4th and 5th rounder.
The good: the 5th rounder ended up being Judon
The bad: we took Correa at 42, with some studs still on the board (Henry, Michael Thomas, Deion Jones, etc.) and Chris Jones and Xavien Howard were on the board for us at 36.

I can keep going further, but point being in the last several drafts, I'd argue we've been much more aggressive about coming UP in the draft for quality players than trading back. The only real trade back scenarios was in 2018, and that's kind of a wash for me.

Recently, we've had no issues giving up picks for players (Peters, Yannick) or moving up to get guys we want (Lamar).

In terms of comp picks, I tend to agree Ravens overvalue them, however, the context of the comp picks is also in the context of the lack of salary cap space available to go and acquire better players in FA.

Do you get the sense that we have been a bit too conservative with the players we pick? I can't put my finger on it

 

[rmcjacket23]

THIS!!! I'm getting tired of hoarding picks and having to cut bums or trade them to make room on the roster. This is why I love how the Rams operate and wish we did things similarly

If we operated like the Rams, we'd need to do several things differently, and very little of them have anything to do with "fuck them picks", which is not the Rams model.
First, like the Rams, you need to draft several very high end players, which is what they've done. Aaron Donald, Cooper Kupp, and a good chunk of their offensive line, among others.
Second, you'll need to hit on much more of your depth draft picks. For those that aren't aware, the Rams have been doing exceptionally well on day 2 and day 3 in the draft recently. If they weren't, they wouldn't be getting some of the players they have.
Third, Rams have also let several high quality players walk or traded them in recent years.
Note that in order to get Jalen Ramsey, they had to trade Marcus Peters, because they couldn't afford both.
John Johnson was a very high end safety. They couldn't keep him.
They've since gotten rid of Woods and may not be able to re-sign OBJ, and only replaced them with Allen Robinson.
Von Miller is now gone also.

Rams model isn't really that "unique". I think the people that think it is haven't really sat back and assessed what's going on. They're paying top dollar to elite players at premium positions (QB, WR, Pass Rusher, Corner), and they're using roster fillers for a lot of other spots, which mainly comes from the draft. They'll add a name-recognized veteran on occasion to fill gaps, but never for a long period of time essentially.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Do you get the sense that we have been a bit too conservative with the players we pick? I can't put my finger on it

I think Covid for the last two years has made scouting players at smaller schools or scouting less-known players much, much, much more difficult.

 

[rossihunter2]

Right. I treat punters the same way as I treat pretty much the entirety of Special Teams. You don't have to have a great punter, you just can't have a shitty one. Maybe your punter isn't shifting the field position 60 yards every time, but if he's shanking punts frequently or kicking into coverage too often, then that'll be bad for the team.

I think the discussion about Koch declining is fair, but I think its mostly just the idea of a $3.1M cap hit and having potentially $2.1M in cap savings coming with it. Neither are large numbers in the grand scheme of things, and if he were a great punter still, it wouldn't be a discussion. Just one of those things where if you can find somebody fairly close to as good as him in the draft, you can save yourself $1-2M in cap space, because anybody you add in the draft on day 3 is going to have minimal cap impact.

Plus he's in the last year of his deal and is 40. One way or another, I suspect we'll have a new punter by 2023 at the latest.

which is why i dont think anyone's desperate to get rid of koch

but now is when we start thinking about finding his replacement - he's no longer untouchable

he's not killing the team, but there's no reason not to see if we can find something better

 

[rossihunter2]

ngl, EDC’s first draft as GM looking pretty rough. View attachment 3671

"as GM" is doing a lot of work here lol
i get it... but also EDC's been running the draft for a long long time

 

[marklar]

Yeah, hitting on only 12% of your draft picks in a draft class is not good at all... we've been having some rough drafts lately

A bit harsh IMO. Powers is sufficient value for a 4th rounder. Borderline starter / above average backup is probably in line with the avg pick at that point. So 25%
Still a bad draft though

 

[UPennChem]

We've got 5.9m in salary cap. The draft class is supposedly approximately 4m. That means we'd have 1.9m for reserves and depth. That just doesn't seem like enough??

 

[rossihunter2]

I mean I'm sure there's collaboration, but I seriously doubt that EDC is picking guys he doesn't like just because John wants to.
Plus they've been pretty open about the fact that the last two years scouting for smaller schools became a lot tougher with travel bans in effect from Covid. It's not a surprise that a lot of teams targeted players from more premier programs.

Plus, McSorley was a fine pick when we made it. He's a backup QB. He just got beat out by Huntley as an UDFA. Phillips I'm not sure why you put in that group, since he went to Mississippi State.

phillips is the only guy off that list, tbf, that we know harbs lobbied for hard
we know he liked cleveland and we can do some guesswork (maybe) on some of the others

but ironically, you've picked out the only guy that we know was 100% a Harbs guy based on the comments made about the selection at the time by EDC and others

 

[marklar]

We've got 5.9m in salary cap. The draft class is supposedly approximately 4m. That means we'd have 1.9m for reserves and depth. That just doesn't seem like enough??

I think we usually keep nearly 10M going into the season for injuries etc, so there will be a number of restructures/extensions before week1

 

[rossihunter2]

Honestly I have no problem with The Ravens hoarding picks and sticking to their motto of drafting for depth in the later rounds. Some of their better players from Matt Judon, Pernell Mcphee, Tavon Young, Zadarius Smith,Nick Boyle, and more were not drafted in the first three rounds of the draft.

1 bad draft in 2019 does not make the process bad...
and 2 years under covid since where they've shied away from risks and small-school talents also is not a great indicator of what the future holds

this is an incredibly deep class in the middle right where we've got 7 of our 10 picks (in the 3rd and 4th round) - that's where we want to be picking a lot

 

[rossihunter2]

So basically we need ozzie to work his magic in those later rounds again

ozzie's not left...