Signings, Cuts, Trades

[JoeyFlex5]

Can you count two 1st round WRs and Linderbaum when one was traded away for the other? Ditto with 1st round TE and 2nd round RB?

Anyway, that really isn't a lot of investment considering how bare the WR and TE rooms were before the 2018 draft. eg. All the Ravens WR picks since '18 (including Hollywood) amount to less JJ points than they spent on Safety 4 this year.

Thats all fair points too, can’t even argue with you but really it’s just that there’s a narrative that the ravens haven’t done shit to get Lamar targets, in reality they have, just not the way a lot of people ask for. Fans ask for high cap FA WRs, the ravens felt high cap defense and lots of draft picks at offensive skill positions would be better. You could argue either side, lately the FA WR has worked better but it hasn’t always been that way.

Some say they haven’t done shit to give Lamar help, some say they’ve given him plenty through the draft and OL, the reality is that it’s in the middle

No I feel it and had this in mind while posting it. I personally would love to see a trade for a big name at WR. I’ve been over drafting first round guys lol

I mean I’m with you, just that I didn’t see a wr out there I’d want for their price tag. 2+5 for LB1 is better than a similar price or more for a WR15-30, all day. Definitely should’ve given up more to get Hopkins a while back though, that was a big fucking whiff I’d say, idc what argument anyone tries to make

 

[Adreme]

Thats all fair points too, can’t even argue with you but really it’s just that there’s a narrative that the ravens haven’t done shit to get Lamar targets, in reality they have, just not the way a lot of people ask for. Fans ask for high cap FA WRs, the ravens felt high cap defense and lots of draft picks at offensive skill positions would be better. You could argue either side, lately the FA WR has worked better but it hasn’t always been that way.

Some say they haven’t done shit to give Lamar help, some say they’ve given him plenty through the draft and OL, the reality is that it’s in the middle


I mean I’m with you, just that I didn’t see a wr out there I’d want for their price tag. 2+5 for LB1 is better than a similar price or more for a WR15-30, all day. Definitely should’ve given up more to get Hopkins a while back though, that was a big fucking whiff I’d say, idc what argument anyone tries to make

I mean the high priced FA WRs have not done much of anything either. You can say they should have drafted better but that is sort of all that is left because the FA WR market has typically not panned out for any of the teams going into it aggressively.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

It’s funny and all but 2 first round wrs, a first round TE, a third round TE, 2 fourth round TEs, 2 third round wrs, a 2nd round rb, Tyler linderbaum, Morgan Moses, Stanley’s contract, andrews contract, zeitler, I’d say we’ve given Lamar a fair amount to work with, the only argument I’d make is the ravens can’t use the wrs worth a fuck, or Lamar can’t, one has proven true for 25 years and the other is yet to be known. The only thing we know is the ravens have invested for Lamar, they’ve just whiffed on their investments.

I would say it's a bit disingenuous to say the first and third round tight end were for Lamar- they were 100% for Joe, in my opinion.

But really, I think the big issue, for most people, is that the Ravens drafted Hollywood and he continually gets better, has great chemistry with Lamar, and then... he gets shipped out.

Okay, but that's fine because the trade was agreed upon in like February or March, so the Ravens clearly knew that they had a hole and relying on Bateman, who was coming off a season where he struggled with injury, to be the number one receiver was risky. On top of that, Duvernay hadn't shown to be more than a gadget player to that point and really fills that role of a three more than a starter.

But then the Ravens... didn't do anything. This felt extremely risky because if injuries reared their head to one of Andrews, Bateman, or Duvernay for an extended period of time, the Ravens were going to be in a really rough spot.

And then injuries obviously did happen! In week four, well ahead of the deadline. So clearly the Ravens knew they should find depth and figure something out. And the Ravens did make a trade! Except... it was for a linebacker on a defense that had been ascending lately. To make issues even worse, we see the Cardinals lose Hollywood for a bit and they immediately trade for a WR. The Vikings lose Irv Smith and they immediately trade for Hockenson.

Had the Ravens come into the season with Hollywood, Andrews, Bateman, and Duvernay, I wouldn't have been singing the praises of the wide receivers, but I'd have been pretty content. Instead, the Ravens traded a receiver, did nothing, knew Bateman would be done for the season, and then doubled down on doing nothing for an already piss poor receiver group.

That's where the frustration stems from.

Edit: I will also say this- I think a lot of people, myself included, would rather be in on proven wide receivers because the Ravens have been absolute ass at drafting and developing receivers and the one time they weren't recently, they traded him.

Also, just a random thought, but Bateman is turning into exactly who fans thought Hollywood was- he hasn't shown super reliable hands, goes down to avoid contact, and has had major injuries in two straight seasons. The grass isn't always greener...

 

[UPennChem]

Sigh. What Eric has done with the WR position is truly unforgivable. It was unforgivable in the draft. It was unforgivable after the draft. It was unforgivable at the trade deadline when you knew Bateman had a Lisfranc. Totally dropped the ball.

The worst part of it all is for fucks sake, we finally get a guy like Bateman and injuries plus Greg Roman will completly squander him.

 

[Adreme]

Sigh. What Eric has done with the WR position is truly unforgivable. It was unforgivable in the draft. It was unforgivable after the draft. It was unforgivable at the trade deadline when you knew Bateman had a Lisfranc. Totally dropped the ball.

The worst part of it all is for fucks sake, we finally get a guy like Bateman and injuries plus Greg Roman will completly squander him.

Who the mythical rookie WR that the Ravens should have drafted as none of them have been very good? Meanwhile the Ravens basically had 4 great picks to start so which one should they have not taken? Then we look to free agency and we know free agent WRs have the Ravens as a team of last resort.

The draft board just falls how it falls sometimes. I am sure they would have liked to have taken a WR but their were far better players there and the WR position had a run on it (that quite frankly has not yet panned out but might as they are all just rookies).

 

[UPennChem]

Who the mythical rookie WR that the Ravens should have drafted as none of them have been very good? Meanwhile the Ravens basically had 4 great picks to start so which one should they have not taken? Then we look to free agency and we know free agent WRs have the Ravens as a team of last resort.

The draft board just falls how it falls sometimes. I am sure they would have liked to have taken a WR but their were far better players there and the WR position had a run on it (that quite frankly has not yet panned out but might as they are all just rookies).

*exasperated sigh*. It's literally the job of the fucking NFL GM to put together a roster that makes sense. He didn't do that at WR, EDGE, or RB. And the on top of that ILB was very weak.

With WRs there were any number of options. Don't trade Hollywood. Take George Pickens. Sign Juju. Trade for cooks before the deadline where you could restructure. Trade for Terry McLaurin. Trade for AJ Brown. Trade for DK. I can keep going.

Some of those things were extremely possible. Some of things did happen just by other teams. Some didn't happen but maybe should've happened despite the high cost. Idk exactly what the options were and costs because I don't get to see behind the scenes. But trotting out Bateman, Duv, Proche, Wallace, and DRob is disgusting. Batemans out and now you have only one WR2/3. Yep obviously that was the move. But that's how the draft board falls sometime. Foh

 

[Deebo813]

Dam so we knew bateman was gonna be out for the season and still traded for a ilb instead? Do we have plans on signing obj? I mean i doubt he would actually do anything special for us but still.

 

[allblackraven]

Dam so we knew bateman was gonna be out for the season and still traded for a ilb instead? Do we have plans on signing obj? I mean i doubt he would actually do anything special for us but still.

It was reported that KC checked him out then went on and traded for Toney. Think his knee is done.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

*exasperated sigh*. It's literally the job of the fucking NFL GM to put together a roster that makes sense. He didn't do that at WR, EDGE, or RB. And the on top of that ILB was very weak.

With WRs there were any number of options. Don't trade Hollywood. Take George Pickens. Sign Juju. Trade for cooks before the deadline where you could restructure. Trade for Terry McLaurin. Trade for AJ Brown. Trade for DK. I can keep going.

Some of those things were extremely possible. Some of things did happen just by other teams. Some didn't happen but maybe should've happened despite the high cost. Idk exactly what the options were and costs because I don't get to see behind the scenes. But trotting out Bateman, Duv, Proche, Wallace, and DRob is disgusting. Batemans out and now you have only one WR2/3. Yep obviously that was the move. But that's how the draft board falls sometime. Foh

Based on what Ive seen so far, I’d take linderbaum over Hollywood, Pickens is a fair argument but let’s see ojabo first, juju is meh, cooks was a fair trade target, terry and dk weren’t options, aj brown cost a lot trade wise and cap wise.

It’s frustrating af but realistically the only options there have been in the past year were: Pickens, cooks, or hoping someone falls to us in the draft.

If any of the early WRs fell to 14 I think we’re taking one, Williams/Wilson/olave I think Eric was really hoping on a fall.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Who the mythical rookie WR that the Ravens should have drafted as none of them have been very good? Meanwhile the Ravens basically had 4 great picks to start so which one should they have not taken? Then we look to free agency and we know free agent WRs have the Ravens as a team of last resort.

The draft board just falls how it falls sometimes. I am sure they would have liked to have taken a WR but their were far better players there and the WR position had a run on it (that quite frankly has not yet panned out but might as they are all just rookies).

The Ravens reportedly liked one of Olave or Wilson, maybe both, and I'd happily take either.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Can you count two 1st round WRs and Linderbaum when one was traded away for the other? Ditto with 1st round TE and 2nd round RB?

Anyway, that really isn't a lot of investment considering how bare the WR and TE rooms were before the 2018 draft. eg. All the Ravens WR picks since '18 (including Hollywood) amount to less JJ points than they spent on Safety 4 this year.

I mean... he got three years with Hollywood, two years with Hurst, and three years with Dobbins. Don't think you can exclude that.
And no, the injuries don't really matter in that context, because the GM isn't responsible for player health. All he can do is put the players on the roster. He can't make them available to play.

It's a pretty strong investment no matter how you look at it. It just hasn't worked out due to a combination of injuries, ineffective play, coaching, etc.

I think the key difference is fans judge investments by outcomes, i.e. wait until they get to see all the info, then decide if it was a good choice or not. GM's, obviously, don't have that luxury.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Worst thing about this is that now people can now say "but we didn't have any receivers" as an excuse for why Roman should be given another year (Even though he doesn't use them anyway).

So if he doesn't use them, why are fans bitching about not having any?

 

[rmcjacket23]

*exasperated sigh*. It's literally the job of the fucking NFL GM to put together a roster that makes sense. He didn't do that at WR, EDGE, or RB. And the on top of that ILB was very weak.

With WRs there were any number of options. Don't trade Hollywood. Take George Pickens. Sign Juju. Trade for cooks before the deadline where you could restructure. Trade for Terry McLaurin. Trade for AJ Brown. Trade for DK. I can keep going.

Some of those things were extremely possible. Some of things did happen just by other teams. Some didn't happen but maybe should've happened despite the high cost. Idk exactly what the options were and costs because I don't get to see behind the scenes. But trotting out Bateman, Duv, Proche, Wallace, and DRob is disgusting. Batemans out and now you have only one WR2/3. Yep obviously that was the move. But that's how the draft board falls sometime. Foh

Well, to cover these individually...
1. There is no evidence that McLaurin or DK were ever available for trade. Doesn't matter if we want them or not.
2. Everybody and their mother now knows there's a zero percent chance you can afford AJ Brown until Lamar signs an extension. People who want that trade can want it, but your QB and the FO need to want it bad enough to get something done before that happens. THAT was the priority.
3. I don't know why anybody in the world think Juju being on this team makes any difference at all. He's not even playing ahead of Duvernay. Today, he's the 3rd option in a passing game that doesn't produce output for 3rd options. I honestly don't even know what we're doing here with this shit.
4. If you don't trade Hollywood, he's a rental. It's clear he's not signing here. I know I'm going to say something that's certainly to shock a lot of people, but, gasp, football isn't ending this year. This isn't the last season ever. NFL teams aren't really in the business of forcing people to play for them who clearly don't want to, and getting limited to no compensation in return for good players.

There IS a valid argument that Pickens over Ojabo should have been a thing. But that also sort of goes against your argument, because if the argument is he didn't do enough at EDGE, and you swap Ojabo for Pickens, doesn't that make your EDGE problem worse?

I'd have liked to have seen the Ravens done more in the draft to add receivers this past offseason.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Based on what Ive seen so far, I’d take linderbaum over Hollywood, Pickens is a fair argument but let’s see ojabo first, juju is meh, cooks was a fair trade target, terry and dk weren’t options, aj brown cost a lot trade wise and cap wise.

It’s frustrating af but realistically the only options there have been in the past year were: Pickens, cooks, or hoping someone falls to us in the draft.

If any of the early WRs fell to 14 I think we’re taking one, Williams/Wilson/olave I think Eric was really hoping on a fall.

Well and Cooks is a trade target instead of Roquan, since the compensation for Cooks was actually higher in terms of draft demands.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the Ravens weren't in on Cooks because of his 2023 price tag. People can talk about restructures, but that's not really an option, considering he had two years left. Restructuring doesn't do you much good until Lamar signs an extension.

As I alluded to previously... Lamar not being signed long term is the catalyst for basically everything. Any way you look at it, it shapes FA strategy, it shapes trade strategy, it shapes draft strategy. With a QB staring at a franchise tag of between $45-50M next season, its a big HOLD on basically anything involving 2-3 year+ commitments to anybody of any real value.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I would say it's a bit disingenuous to say the first and third round tight end were for Lamar- they were 100% for Joe, in my opinion.

But really, I think the big issue, for most people, is that the Ravens drafted Hollywood and he continually gets better, has great chemistry with Lamar, and then... he gets shipped out.

Okay, but that's fine because the trade was agreed upon in like February or March, so the Ravens clearly knew that they had a hole and relying on Bateman, who was coming off a season where he struggled with injury, to be the number one receiver was risky. On top of that, Duvernay hadn't shown to be more than a gadget player to that point and really fills that role of a three more than a starter.

But then the Ravens... didn't do anything. This felt extremely risky because if injuries reared their head to one of Andrews, Bateman, or Duvernay for an extended period of time, the Ravens were going to be in a really rough spot.

And then injuries obviously did happen! In week four, well ahead of the deadline. So clearly the Ravens knew they should find depth and figure something out. And the Ravens did make a trade! Except... it was for a linebacker on a defense that had been ascending lately. To make issues even worse, we see the Cardinals lose Hollywood for a bit and they immediately trade for a WR. The Vikings lose Irv Smith and they immediately trade for Hockenson.

Had the Ravens come into the season with Hollywood, Andrews, Bateman, and Duvernay, I wouldn't have been singing the praises of the wide receivers, but I'd have been pretty content. Instead, the Ravens traded a receiver, did nothing, knew Bateman would be done for the season, and then doubled down on doing nothing for an already piss poor receiver group.

That's where the frustration stems from.

Edit: I will also say this- I think a lot of people, myself included, would rather be in on proven wide receivers because the Ravens have been absolute ass at drafting and developing receivers and the one time they weren't recently, they traded him.

Also, just a random thought, but Bateman is turning into exactly who fans thought Hollywood was- he hasn't shown super reliable hands, goes down to avoid contact, and has had major injuries in two straight seasons. The grass isn't always greener...

In terms of "proven receivers", you only get them via trades these days. Which means draft capital AND money. Basically another team has sucked a lot of the value out of those guys, and you're just hoping they live up to whatever you pay them.

Solution is to keep drafting. Regardless of whether they've sucked or not, its literally the only way to get playmakers on a team with a $50M QB, long term, at good prices. Even all these mega trades for WRs almost universally surround QBs not getting paid a lot. That time is largely over for the Ravens. People can bitch about whether it should have happened 2-3 years ago, and maybe it should have. But that's in the past, and bitching about it now does nothing.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Solution is to keep drafting. Regardless of whether they've sucked or not, its literally the only way to get playmakers on a team with a $50M QB, long term, at good prices. Even all these mega trades for WRs almost universally surround QBs not getting paid a lot. That time is largely over for the Ravens. People can bitch about whether it should have happened 2-3 years ago, and maybe it should have. But that's in the past, and bitching about it now does nothing.

You won't catch me arguing that the Ravens will have to aggressively draft. They clearly don't want to pay market price for a receiver.

I would imagine that the Ravens will heavily target a first round receiver every few years because I don't anticipate them paying the big bucks for a receiver even remotely soon.

 

[UPennChem]

Based on what Ive seen so far, I’d take linderbaum over Hollywood, Pickens is a fair argument but let’s see ojabo first, juju is meh, cooks was a fair trade target, terry and dk weren’t options, aj brown cost a lot trade wise and cap wise.

It’s frustrating af but realistically the only options there have been in the past year were: Pickens, cooks, or hoping someone falls to us in the draft.

If any of the early WRs fell to 14 I think we’re taking one, Williams/Wilson/olave I think Eric was really hoping on a fall.

Yep Eric made the play I'm gonna keep the Hollywood thing silent and try and steal WR. It totally failed and that's ok. He just never recovered.

 

[UPennChem]

Well, to cover these individually...
1. There is no evidence that McLaurin or DK were ever available for trade. Doesn't matter if we want them or not.
2. Everybody and their mother now knows there's a zero percent chance you can afford AJ Brown until Lamar signs an extension. People who want that trade can want it, but your QB and the FO need to want it bad enough to get something done before that happens. THAT was the priority.
3. I don't know why anybody in the world think Juju being on this team makes any difference at all. He's not even playing ahead of Duvernay. Today, he's the 3rd option in a passing game that doesn't produce output for 3rd options. I honestly don't even know what we're doing here with this shit.
4. If you don't trade Hollywood, he's a rental. It's clear he's not signing here. I know I'm going to say something that's certainly to shock a lot of people, but, gasp, football isn't ending this year. This isn't the last season ever. NFL teams aren't really in the business of forcing people to play for them who clearly don't want to, and getting limited to no compensation in return for good players.

There IS a valid argument that Pickens over Ojabo should have been a thing. But that also sort of goes against your argument, because if the argument is he didn't do enough at EDGE, and you swap Ojabo for Pickens, doesn't that make your EDGE problem worse?

I'd have liked to have seen the Ravens done more in the draft to add receivers this past offseason.

Might point was simply there were lots of options and many different levels. It all depends on what you were willing to give up and your flexibility. I agree Lamar not signing his fucking contract is actually destroying this team's ability to do anything. It's annoying because he's Mr. I wanna be Brady, I wanna win superbowls but his actions are I want to make as much money as possible.

 

[rmcjacket23]

You won't catch me arguing that the Ravens will have to aggressively draft. They clearly don't want to pay market price for a receiver.

I would imagine that the Ravens will heavily target a first round receiver every few years because I don't anticipate them paying the big bucks for a receiver even remotely soon.

Right. Until the point when they draft one worth paying market value to. Then it'll likely just be a bunch of mid-rounders and cheap guys until that's over.

 

[Sandtown]

We honestly saw Chase Claypool get traded for a second round pick which probably isn't something any team would have wanted to do. The only wideout that was available that was actually has a accomplished career was Brandin Cook. If anyone think The Ravens should have given up a second or higher round pick for Cook just because Bateman was done for the season is cool but I don't blame The Ravens for not even pushing that panic button like that. Cook has been traded by just about every team he has been on so far and then you got to think about working on his contact for next year to make it cap friendly which isn't a guarantee that his agent would do that.

One thing I learned about participating in the forum mock draft is that trades aren't easy regardless how big of a need you may have. It's not really that easy to accomplished. Truthfully I would have probably been more concerned about The Ravens offense if Mark Andrews was done for the season because the guy has been The Ravens # 1 receiver for some time now.