BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
Clearly not a one class issue. When you take away the purple shades and look at his body of work in the draft its not overly impressive.
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BoredMarine13
Ravens Ring of Honor
For sure but this wasn’t just hindsight , I remember quite of few of us having WTF moment when players were available a few selections ahead of us but we stood pat with all our 4ths.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Not really.
For starters, the Ravens can't afford $24M for a WR unless Lamar signs an extension. Without that, its 0%.
Most importantly, Raiders effectively can't trade him until after June 1st. They'd take on a nearly $31.5M dead money cap hit next year if they trade him before that, which is over 2x the amount they would take just to keep him (and he's obviously a great player).
And even if they traded him post-June 1, he'd still have a $23.5M dead money cap hit in 2024.
Would also point out that a team acquiring him after June 1st would be getting a pretty sweet deal. They'd be getting effectively a two year deal at about $23M in total over two years, which is his base salaries for 23-24. His 25-26 base salaries come with it, but they're $35.6M each and are not guaranteed. No team in the league is going to pay $35.6M for a 33/34 year old WR in this climate, so he'll be cut or asked to take a large paycut by whatever team he is on by 2025.
he was a 6th round pick. We have been pretty good with them, but you can't hit on everyone of your picks and he's had some pretty big hits, especially from the 2022 draft.
The 2020 and the 2022 draft class have been big hits and still too soon to decide on 2021. Clearly whenever Bateman has been on the field he has performed well and our offense has been much better even when he wasn't getting targets. It's way too soon to decide on Oweh.
2019 Hollywood and Powers were both hits and 2 is the average for starters in any draft. We also were able to trade Hollywood for a 1st round pick that we used on Linderbaum, who could be a 10 year all pro type player.
If you think EDC hasn't been good in drafting you haven't paid attention to the rest of the league.
the person that isn't looking clearly is you. I think you need a new prescription and if you'd like me to list out every draft pick hit since then, I'd be happy to to it again, but it's in the EDC thread.
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If you're talking 4th round picks, sure, I agree that I'd like to see us be more aggressive sometimes.
This is a late 6th though. There's a good chance there wasn't even a team that wanted that pick at the time.
marklar
Pro Bowler
Wrt 4th rounders, I don't expect much from an individual pick. A 3-year backup or a key special teamer would be ok-ish. But when you take a group of 10-15 4th rounders, I'd expect 1 gem in there that would be "pro bowl level" and I'm not sure we've found any such despite a million 4th rounders. We've been solid, but haven't found any really high ceiling players for a while. Or am I forgetting anyone?
There have been exactly 5 pro bowl players (2 of which are getting their first nod this year) drafted in the 4th round of the last 6 drafts combined. If that's your expectation, you're aiming too high. We've had our share of misses in that early day 3 range but we've also found some quality starters which is more than most teams can say.
why would you "expect" pro bowl level players that low down
do you know how exceedingly rare it is?
last time the ravens selected a pro bowler in day 3 was iirc 2016 with Matt Judon
so across the last 6 drafts (excluding special teams) there have been a grand total of 10 pro bowlers selected on day 3 by all teams NFL-wide...
10 players out of over 900 picks
it's, i think, acceptable to expect to find contributors, depth and some starters - but to expect to find a star like player in those selections is just such an unreasonable expectation
and look at matt judon - we had 5 4th round picks the year we took him, and we selected him in the 5th round... the draft is a lottery as much as anything else
are you counting just 4th round picks or all day 3 picks.
Just 4th
the bigger problem we have re: star players is that we havent drafted a player who made a pro bowl for non-special teams reasons since 2018...
Dobbins is that kind of guy but has been harangued by injuries, Hamilton and Linderbaum have the look of guys who might be future perennial stars (and Linderbaum was robbed this year)
we've drafted some good players - but not many stars - this 2022 draft class looks like it's started very very well but need them to kick on and stack
Dobbins is that kind of guy but has been harangued by injuries, Hamilton and Linderbaum have the look of guys who might be future perennial stars (and Linderbaum was robbed this year)
we've drafted some good players - but not many stars - this 2022 draft class looks like it's started very very well but need them to kick on and stack
I was going to post this-
The Ravens have certainly drafted *good* players, but they've missed out on the Pro Bowlers and All Pros. And the Pro Bowl is exceedingly easy to make when you see Tyler Huntley is fourth alternate, so not drafting a single Pro Bowl player, outside of Duvernay as a returner, is concerning.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
For day 3 players specifically (including 4th-7th rounders basically), I agree, there hasn't been much in the way of "high end players".
Won't have any high impact players from 2020/2021 drafts from day 3.
2019 we got Powers in the 4th round, who is now a pretty good starter at Guard. Though was basically a fringe roster player for much of his career thus far.
2018 you got Averett, Elliott and Bozeman. Decent starters when they played, but not high-end players
2017 you got Chuck Clark. I'd consider that a huge win as a 6th rounder. Would have been a really good 4th round pick also (if he were one).
2013-2016 is probably the "sweet spot". Got Tavon Young in the 4th, who was a high-end slot corner when healthy, Judon, who's now a 4-time Pro Bowler, Waller, Boyle and ZaDarius Smith, who's now a 3-time Pro Bowler. Also Juice, Wagner, and Jensen.
Do agree that for the last I'd say 2-3 years, excluding 2022 (too early), day 3 picks haven't done much at all for this team. Some special teams contributors and a Guard basically.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah I just don't care about Pro Bowls. Like sure, they're "easier", but they're also popularity contests and driven by optics more than output.
I don't need Linderbaum to be in the Pro Bowl to think he's a good player. Anybody that watches him knows he is. I'd say top 4-5 at his position in the NFL in his rookie year. If he never gets a personal accolade for that, I wouldn't care (and he'll get plenty before its all said and done).
As I posted on my last response, I think the lack of even overall contributors from day 3 picks in recent years is concerning.
You're getting very little from the 2020/2021 classes from day 3 picks beyond some ST contributors and some decent situational players (Stone, Broderick). Guys that you love to have on the roster as depth, but not guys you want to be regular starters or playing high snaps. 2019 you got Powers, who didn't start for many years, and Hill, who's just a quality ST player.
2022, while just one year, doesn't look great at the moment either. Took 2 Corners and 2 TEs and can't say any have made strong contributions (or any contribution for some) yet, Badie is already gone, and you basically have a quality Swing Tackle and a Punter. Just one year, but no major contributors I'd say.
marklar
Pro Bowler
You are both misinterpreting what I wrote. The first sentence says what I expect. That is, very little.
Then I put pro bpwl within quotes as I do not mean that specifically, but some type of high-level starter. And without checking, I would not be surprised if a draft on average produces 2-3 4th rounders that become high-level starters before the end of their 4th year.
possibly a side effect, also, of being a successful team - picking later in the round is probably contributing, somewhat, to our lack of success at finding studs
it's no coincidence that the rookies who instantly looked most like studs since 2018 - were the 2 we got in the class with the highest picks we'd had since the 2016 draft where we grabbed ronnie stanley
i think hollywood was unlucky to be drafted at a position that's loaded with talent around the league and was overshadowed by some extraordinary draft compatriots and recovering from a lisfranc in year 1, bateman's been hamstrung by injuries, madubuike's overshadowed by playing next to a HoFer and also at a position that's as deep as any in the league, JK's been knee-capped by injuries
and in 2022 Linderbaum was robbed of a pro-bowl spot
but the fact that not one guy has overcome whatever it was that was in their way to become a pro bowler is damning
Outside of those pro bowlers, not many guys are high-end contributors either. Guys like Amon-Ra St. Brown and probably this year, Dameon Pierce are a couple of the "standouts" I see. A significant majority of the guys drafted on early day 3 in the last few years are exactly what we have here - solidish starters, rotational players, or dudes that are barely hanging on or already out of the league.
It's easy to forget these guys are drafted when they are for a reason. Those that outplay that status and turn into something is far more the exception than the norm.
I think playing in a small market does play a part in this.